Arizona state convention

[Oddone]

I did not see him getting pulled down to his seat. I saw a female security guard grab the mic as he walked to the podium ,she slammed the mic into the podium as she began wrapping her arm around his chest to shove him backwards...she was wrestling sorta and he just stood his ground and began talking. maybe i couldnt see from my view since he was on a stage but thats what I saw.

Again, you are talking about something completely different. Read my above post and watch the video of your fellow AZ delegates. Also why re-quote the old post again?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Again, you are talking about something completely different. Read my above post and watch the video of your fellow AZ delegates. Also why re-quote the old post again?

the video you posted is missing the part where the security guard grabbed the mic and grabbed him.

 

[Oddone]

the video you posted is missing the part where the security guard grabbed the mic and grabbed him.

Did you read anything I posted? Did you listen to the story that starts after 30:15? Again, I am not even talking about what you are talking about. I feel like I am just talking in circles now. Oi....

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Looked like they left on their own.

Someone said, "They (the previous Chair) already adjourned the meeting, so this is ceremonial." Except if the previous Chair didn't properly adjourn, then it wasn't adjourned. But then the new Chair says, "Let's go to the parking lot," followed by "YEAH!"

And the whole time the new Chair says how nothing they do will matter because they don't have any power, etc.
And then they go out to the parking lot and hear that again.
And then they decide instead of trying they'll go drinking.

Anyway, other than not watching the ballot counting if they could, (someone on video said they could watch if they wanted), what's the potential damage here? On a previous page, someone said Paul might get three less delegates or something like that. Losing delegates is bad, but if that's the max potential damage from the mess towards the end, doesn't seem too bad. ?

so why would the new chair say go to the parking lot if the chair knows that what they do wont matter? seems odd.

The letting them count the votes in secret and claiming the convention was over while they did it is a bad sign too. OKC did it right. This wasn't organized as well for putting up with Romney GOP dirty tricks.

 

[sailingaway]

The letting them count the votes in secret and claiming the convention was over while they did it is a bad sign too. OKC did it right. This wasn't organized as well for putting up with Romney GOP dirty tricks.

Is it possible that after OK they had a Romney type 'take control' only to disband it, or was the guy on the RV reliably one of ours?

I also wonder if, since AZ clearly had more people of ours there than the establishment hoped for, the campaign had focused on the state? What I mean is, since it wasn't a caucus state, maybe there wasn't caucus training and they didn't have the parlimentarian and resources as glibly known. They might have had less of an advantage.

 

[opinionatedfool]

Is it possible that after OK they had a Romney type 'take control' only to disband it, or was the guy on the RV reliably one of ours?

I also wonder if, since AZ clearly had more people of ours there than the establishment hoped for, the campaign had focused on the state? What I mean is, since it wasn't a caucus state, maybe there wasn't caucus training and they didn't have the parlimentarian and resources as glibly known. They might have had less of an advantage.

It did seem like he was a romney bot... have to watch for that moving forward.

 

[jene277]

Is it possible that after OK they had a Romney type 'take control' only to disband it, or was the guy on the RV reliably one of ours?

I also wonder if, since AZ clearly had more people of ours there than the establishment hoped for, the campaign had focused on the state? What I mean is, since it wasn't a caucus state, maybe there wasn't caucus training and they didn't have the parlimentarian and resources as glibly known. They might have had less of an advantage.

David Fitzgerald (RV Guy) apparently is one of ours, and has also been endorsed by Dr. Paul, according to his bio.

http://davidfitzgerald2012.com/

 

[sailingaway]

Huh. So not someone who depends on the party for their future, then, maybe?

 

[Barrex]

From what I saw it was obvious that they dont know how to proceed. They simply didnt have experience how to organize convention and dont know what to do. They werent prepared for that.(No parliamentarian, no Laptops no pen and paper to write proceedings down). Odd thing was that that guy on a van said he had permission to have a meeting on that parking lot. Did he asked for it right then or was he prepared days ahead? If he prepared id days ahead why werent other preparation been done?

Convention rules and other "paperwork" is not something that 99.9% of the people are familiar with.

 

[sailingaway]

From what I saw it was obvious that they dont know how to proceed. They simply didnt have experience how to organize convention and dont know what to do. They werent prepared for that.(No parliamentarian, no Laptops no pen and paper to write proceedings down). Odd thing was that that guy on a van said he had permission to have a meeting on that parking lot. Did he asked for it right then or was he prepared days ahead? If he prepared id days ahead why werent other preparation been done?

Convention rules and other "paperwork" is not something that 99.9% of the people are familiar with.

that goes with my idea that he was acting for the party and not for us. He might have said, 'I want to tell them this won't work and to go home' and they'd say 'ok'. I can't imagine them saying OK otherwise.

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Is it possible that after OK they had a Romney type 'take control' only to disband it, or was the guy on the RV reliably one of ours?

My opinion, seeing this stuff for thirty years, is yes, maybe. The delegates certainly shouldn't have gone along with it. If I was there, I would have asked for a second on it. Anyone else could have stepped in. That indicates a lot of inexperience and meekness.

This happens all the time. I remember when I was in a local Libertarian party group a few years after RP ran the first time, and one of the "MAIN" ie, loudest I'll take charge guys, was also selling grow lamps for hydroponics and selling customer lists to the DEA. Norml later out him. Never follow the lead of a "I'll take charge guy". YOU ARE IN CHARGE. It's all types of wrong that other way.

* And about that other story from my earlier days, being naive, I asked him for information about it - since I was also a genuine space activist who use to work for the national space society (same one Gingrich unfortunately got himself involved in). Hydroponics is useful for growing food in a closed environment like space stations. I wasn't a pot grower. I wonder if the twerp put my name on a list.

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

From what I saw it was obvious that they dont know how to proceed. They simply didnt have experience how to organize convention and dont know what to do. They werent prepared for that.(No parliamentarian, no Laptops no pen and paper to write proceedings down). Odd thing was that that guy on a van said he had permission to have a meeting on that parking lot. Did he asked for it right then or was he prepared days ahead? If he prepared id days ahead why werent other preparation been done?

Convention rules and other "paperwork" is not something that 99.9% of the people are familiar with.

Well, what church was it? Was it a Mormon church?

 

[speciallyblend]

My opinion, seeing this stuff for thirty years, is yes, maybe. The delegates certainly shouldn't have gone along with it. If I was there, I would have asked for a second on it. Anyone else could have stepped in. That indicates a lot of inexperience and meekness.

This happens all the time. I remember when I was in a local Libertarian party group a few years after RP ran the first time, and one of the "MAIN" ie, loudest I'll take charge guys, was also selling grow lamps for hydroponics and selling customer lists to the DEA. Norml later out him. Never follow the lead of a "I'll take charge guy". YOU ARE IN CHARGE. It's all types of wrong that other way.

* And about that other story from my earlier days, being naive, I asked him for information about it - since I was also a genuine space activist who use to work for the national space society (same one Gingrich unfortunately got himself involved in). Hydroponics is useful for growing food in a closed environment like space stations. I wasn't a pot grower. I wonder if the twerp put my name on a list.

the #1 question should be where were the power hitters from the ron paul campaign? That speaks volumes.

 

[Adrock]

Someone I know there at the end said that the point of contention was some RNC positions that ended in a tie. The establishment wanted to sent out mail ballots to decide who wins. That plus to hear the results for the at large candidates was why everyone was still hanging out at the end. Looks like they adjourned the meeting before leaving to the parking lot. Have we learned the outcome of the at large delegates yet?

 

[Occam's Banana]

From what I saw it was obvious that they dont know how to proceed. They simply didnt have experience how to organize convention and dont know what to do. They werent prepared for that.(No parliamentarian, no Laptops no pen and paper to write proceedings down). Odd thing was that that guy on a van said he had permission to have a meeting on that parking lot. Did he asked for it right then or was he prepared days ahead? If he prepared id days ahead why werent other preparation been done?

Convention rules and other "paperwork" is not something that 99.9% of the people are familiar with.

that goes with my idea that he was acting for the party and not for us. He might have said, 'I want to tell them this won't work and to go home' and they'd say 'ok'. I can't imagine them saying OK otherwise.

Barrex is right. People are so bitterly upset that this didn't turn into another Oklahoma that they're looking for a scapegoat - and RV Guy (David Fitzgerald) has apparently been elected. The unfortunate fact is that these people were not prepared to do what was done in OK - they didn't know how to do it & they didn't have the things they needed to do it with. Blaming it all on RV Guy may make people feel better about it, but it doesn't change the fact that a repeat of OK was just not in the cards.

And why the hell would any establishment "mole" advocate the the *only* course of action (taking over the GOP from the precinct level up) that will really stand any chance of success in the long run? If he were a "mole," then why would he insist on the importance of the very sort of thing that is giving the establishment GOP such hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing fits? It makes no sense!

People are so blinded by their desire for the instant gratification of a Ron Paul win (no matter how sloppy & insupportable) that their better sense is being overwhelmed. If we don't overcome this tendency, the Revolution is just going to descend into a bog of paranoiac back-biting. We need to pay attention to what Fitzgerald was telling us. If more people had been doing what he suggests since 2008, a lot of these brou-ha-has (rump conventions, etc.) wouldn't even be necessary in the first place. I guess waving signs & doing cool chants is more gratifying & "romantic" than the long dull slog of actually carrrying out a successful insurgency.

But no one wants to hear it - they just want someone who gets up & says, "Ron Paul is the awesomest of the awesome & the baddest of the bad-assed! I move that we declare a Ron Paul victory! All in favor say 'aye'!"

RV Guy didn't do that, so the very important things he *did* say get lost in all the hissing, booing & shouts of "Mole! Mole!"

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

RV Guy didn't do that, so the very important things he *did* say get lost in all the hissing, booing & shouts of "Mole! Mole!"

Nope, I said *anyone* at Arizona could have taken charge at that point and asked for a second when RV didn't want to.

Think of it this way. The ballots are the football. You never let the opposing team have the football to themselves. The convention should not have been disbanded with the ballots uncounted and the alternatives to be "chosen by mail". That's against the rules. The football got away. I hope the count is counted accurately. Does anyone even know who the RP campaign observers are?

Good grief, that's the whole business of the State convention.

 

[speciallyblend]

after reading about this stuff. I firmly believe the gop will elect obama unless they nominate Ron Paul. I will never vote for romney because he sucks on every issue and i will never reward the corrupt gop by voting romney. romney is a dead man walking!

 

[speciallyblend]

Nope, I said *anyone* at Arizona could have taken charge at that point and asked for a second when RV didn't want to.

Think of it this way. The ballots are the football. You never let the opposing team have the football to themselves. The convention should not have been disbanded with the ballots uncounted and the alternatives to be "chosen by mail". That's against the rules. The football got away. I hope the count is counted accurately. Does anyone even know who the RP campaign observers are?

Good grief, that's the whole business of the State convention.

you should be calling the ron paul campaign and ask why they didn't have their people or heavy hitters there? The ron paul campaign knows when it must save itself from the grassroots. Colorado being a prime example. We would of got trounced in colorado without the unity slate especially on sat. Something the colorado grassroots will never understand but hey folks like to argue. bottom line this is on the ron paul campaign period!

 

[zachrbroussard]

Barrex is right. People are so bitterly upset that this didn't turn into another Oklahoma that they're looking for a scapegoat - and RV Guy (David Fitzgerald) has apparently been elected. The unfortunate fact is that these people were not prepared to do what was done in OK - they didn't know how to do it & they didn't have the things they needed to do it with. Blaming it all on RV Guy may make people feel better about it, but it doesn't change the fact that a repeat of OK was just not in the cards.

And why the hell would any establishment "mole" advocate the the *only* course of action (taking over the GOP from the precinct level up) that will really stand any chance of success in the long run? If he were a "mole," then why would he insist on the importance of the very sort of thing that is giving the establishment GOP such hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing fits? It makes no sense!

People are so blinded by their desire for the instant gratification of a Ron Paul win (no matter how sloppy & insupportable) that their better sense is being overwhelmed. If we don't overcome this tendency, the Revolution is just going to descend into a bog of paranoiac back-biting. We need to pay attention to what Fitzgerald was telling us. If more people had been doing what he suggests since 2008, a lot of these brou-ha-has (rump conventions, etc.) wouldn't even be necessary in the first place. I guess waving signs & doing cool chants is more gratifying & "romantic" than the long dull slog of actually carrrying out a successful insurgency.

But no one wants to hear it - they just want someone who gets up & says, "Ron Paul is the awesomest of the awesome & the baddest of the bad-assed! I move that we declare a Ron Paul victory! All in favor say 'aye'!"

RV Guy didn't do that, so the very important things he *did* say get lost in all the hissing, booing & shouts of "Mole! Mole!"

Couldn't agree more!

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

after reading about this stuff. I firmly believe the gop will elect obama unless they nominate Ron Paul. I will never vote for romney because he sucks on every issue and i will never reward the corrupt gop by voting romney. romney is a dead man walking!

But meanwhile, we'll have half the state GOPs, and be sitting in Romney's expensive hotel room slots from Massachusetes in Tampa

I think Ron Paul can win. I think we might have dropped something in Arizona, and I just hope the reports of the delegates that Ron Paul won there are true, and don't just get lost in the middle of the night.