Are we paying to bring all these people from south of the border ?

[Carlybee]

Case in point. CIA creates havoc in Syria and we pay for it TWICE!! The globalists need to be eradicated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/05/us-syria-crisis-usa-refugees-idUSBREA141ZQ20140205

Agreed...same thing with paying to let illegals in and them again when they set up residence. No way do they ever bring in what it costs us. But...it's for the children!

 

[cajuncocoa]

Carlybee was having problems posting this from her phone...I told her I'd catch it since I'm on a laptop

 

[Madison320]

For the record I am opposed to unions and to the raising of minimum wages. I just think a local carpenter shouldn't be forced out of his profession because cheap labor is encouraged to come here illegally. It's bad enough legal immigrants come here on work visas and work cheaper taking American jobs without encouraging illegals.

But it's the same principle.

Suppose business A has only 1 employee who makes $5 an hour. That's all business A can afford. Would you be in favor of closing that business because they are violating the minimum wage law?

Suppose business B has only 1 employee, an illegal carpenter, who makes $5 an hour. That's all business B can afford. Would you be in favor of closing that business because they are violating the illegal worker law?

 

[Christian Liberty]

I more or less agree with Ron, but I'm not exactly sympathetic to the police that are having a hard time identifying immigrants when there are as many laws as there are. Send anyone who commits a violent crime home? Absolutely. Should you have to have your immigration status checked if you are pulled over for a silly and absurd traffic infraction? No. Not so much for the benefit of the illegal as for the benefit of people who actually are legally here... there is no reason they should have to waste any more of their time being harassed by cops. I doubt Ron Paul actually disagrees with this, but I wish he would clarify.

 

[Carlybee]

But it's the same principle.

Suppose business A has only 1 employee who makes $5 an hour. That's all business A can afford. Would you be in favor of closing that business because they are violating the minimum wage law?

Suppose business B has only 1 employee, an illegal carpenter, who makes $5 an hour. That's all business B can afford. Would you be in favor of closing that business because they are violating the illegal worker law?

First of all I never said anything about closing businesses or forcing businesses to comply with anything. By the same token I don't think taxpayers should have to suffer paying for the cost of illegal immigration just so business B can get cheaper labor ergo enforce existing laws. You are not just taking on Jose the awesome yet cheap carpenter, you are taking on his wife and 5 kids in many cases. Even if they don't move with him, he is claiming them, paying zero withholding tax while using his fake social security documents while Joe Blow American carpenter is now on his 12th month of unemployment...which costs guess who? The employer and ultimately the taxpayer by the time we pay for all his assistance.

 

[Carlybee]

I more or less agree with Ron, but I'm not exactly sympathetic to the police that are having a hard time identifying immigrants when there are as many laws as there are. Send anyone who commits a violent crime home? Absolutely. Should you have to have your immigration status checked if you are pulled over for a silly and absurd traffic infraction? No. Not so much for the benefit of the illegal as for the benefit of people who actually are legally here... there is no reason they should have to waste any more of their time being harassed by cops. I doubt Ron Paul actually disagrees with this, but I wish he would clarify.

I live in a sanctuary city..the cops are not allowed to ask them their citizenship status. Plus once they are here there's not much you can do..I am talking about stemming the tide at the border and I don't believe on the further militarization of the police or using police at the border.

 

[Madison320]

First of all I never said anything about closing businesses or forcing businesses to comply with anything. By the same token I don't think taxpayers should have to suffer paying for the cost of illegal immigration just so business B can get cheaper labor ergo enforce existing laws. You are not just taking on Jose the awesome yet cheap carpenter, you are taking on his wife and 5 kids in many cases. Even if they don't move with him, he is claiming them, paying zero withholding tax while using his fake social security documents while Joe Blow American carpenter is now on his 12th month of unemployment...which costs guess who? The employer and ultimately the taxpayer by the time we pay for all his assistance.

27 wrongs don't make a right.

You lost me. Can you answer those 2 questions? Here they are again, I changed the wording although the logic is the same:

Suppose business A has only 1 employee who makes $5 an hour. That's all business A can afford. Would you be in favor of enforcing the the minimum wage law?

Suppose business B has only 1 employee, an illegal carpenter, who makes $5 an hour. That's all business B can afford. Would you be in favor of enforcing the illegal worker law?

I would take no action in either case because I think both laws are immoral. The only thing I'd be in favor of is deporting the illegal worker if the cops found him thru a traffic stop or something like that. But what I'm really opposed to is punishing the business owner. They shouldn't be punished for entering into a voluntary contract with an employee.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

You cannot have an open border and provide entitlements. Forcing taxpayers to pay for the care and upkeep of immigrants violate personal property rights. People who think these immigrants do not apply for and get every single freebie they can the minute they get here is living in a land of unicorns and flying babies with gossamer wings. Not to mention the criminals who steal, assault, murder, rape...if that is not a violation of personal property I don't know what is.

You keep complaining about entitlements and yet "illegals" are at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to welfare recipients. And for future, you cannot use property rights to defend immigration restriction when what you advocate for steals money from me and prevents businesses to choose who they want to hire.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

How is not enforcing the law restricting the government in any way?

Because not enforcing it means the government is not stealing from me? Just because it's already an existing law, does not mean it's justified. Hell, what you want the government to enforce isn't even constitutional.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Lmao...I know a bunch of them. And I suggest you go read the statistics on gang activity. We have 100,000 gang members in Houston, many of them culled from and recruited by cartels. You show some recent statistics that don't include non border states for Your claims.

And why do the gangs exist? Drugs.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

So screw American workers then? A carpenter should cut his asking rate considerably so companies can hire illegals cheaper? And on top of that pay taxes to support them coming over here?

Oh heavens no! Not free market competition!!!!

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Illegals and war are the health of the state. ...why else would the state be encouraging it?;-)

/thread.

Pretty sure the "illegals" are not in favor of war, or at least not as much as compared to white Republicans.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

And if illegals had it their way, there would be no 2nd amendment, among other things. No mounting of a resistance against the police state would be allowed.

Really, who gets fucked over more by the police state, whites or minorities?

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Somehow, that long time, well respected opinion (in libertarian circles) has been thrown away. One factor is probably the success of Marxist-progressive conditioning. They have demonized all prerequisites, caveats, rules, conditions and laws related to immigration.

Yeah, how Marxist of us libertarians to not want the government to tell us who we can and cannot interact with on our own property

 

[Carlybee]

Oh heavens no! Not free market competition!!!!

There is nothing free market about supporting illegals, giving them entitlements, and taking up the slack for the taxes we have to pay and they don't. Nowhere else could someone who pays no withholding actually get a refund for something they never paid in by using fake documents to file returns claiming so many dependents they are exempt from paying, even if their dependents don't even live here..or even exist for that matter. If you or I did that we would be arrested for fraud.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

For the record I am opposed to unions and to the raising of minimum wages. I just think a local carpenter shouldn't be forced out of his profession because cheap labor is encouraged to come here illegally. It's bad enough legal immigrants come here on work visas and work cheaper taking American jobs without encouraging illegals.

So if an unemployed American citizen who desperately wanted a job was willing to work for significantly lower pay, that would be acceptable, but when someone who was born on the other side of a line does the same thing, it's not okay?

 

[Carlybee]

Yeah, how Marxist of us libertarians to not want the government to tell us who we can and cannot interact with on our own property

My property is not your property. If they have to go through my property to get to your property and I don't want them on my property they are violating my rights.

 

[Carlybee]

So if an unemployed American citizen who desperately wanted a job was willing to work for significantly lower pay, that would be acceptable, but when someone who was born on the other side of a line does the same thing, it's not okay?

Sure it's okay if they get to the back of the immigration line. They have no stake in the well being of this country. They haven't spent a lifetime paying taxes to support this country nor have they contributed in any way.

 

[Carlybee]

And why do the gangs exist? Drugs.

And? You keep thinking the drug war is going to end tomorrow. Not even close.

 

[Carlybee]

27 wrongs don't make a right.

You lost me. Can you answer those 2 questions? Here they are again, I changed the wording although the logic is the same:

Suppose business A has only 1 employee who makes $5 an hour. That's all business A can afford. Would you be in favor of enforcing the the minimum wage law?

Suppose business B has only 1 employee, an illegal carpenter, who makes $5 an hour. That's all business B can afford. Would you be in favor of enforcing the illegal worker law?

I would take no action in either case because I think both laws are immoral. The only thing I'd be in favor of is deporting the illegal worker if the cops found him thru a traffic stop or something like that. But what I'm really opposed to is punishing the business owner. They shouldn't be punished for entering into a voluntary contract with an employee.

I disagree and I never said anything about punishing business owners. Not my problem if they can't afford to pay anyone but an illegal. Which is Bullcrap. Straw man argument.