Are we paying to bring all these people from south of the border ?

[Ender]

Where's your evidence?

What I've seen is that most immigrants, documented or otherwise, tend to shy away from involving themselves in govt programs: they see it not as a handout, but as another way to risk being investigated by ICE.

The only "handout" that I would see being used prolifically would be the public schools, where its easy to enroll and if you don't enroll your kids, you'll only be drawing more attention.

Also, the crime rate among undocumented immigrants is lower than any other demographic. Again - THEY DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT.

Yep.

 

[Carlybee]

Where's your evidence?

What I've seen is that most immigrants, documented or otherwise, tend to shy away from involving themselves in govt programs: they see it not as a handout, but as another way to risk being investigated by ICE.

The only "handout" that I would see being used prolifically would be the public schools, where its easy to enroll and if you don't enroll your kids, you'll only be drawing more attention.

Also, the crime rate among undocumented immigrants is lower than any other demographic. Again - THEY DON'T WANT TO GET CAUGHT.

Lmao...I know a bunch of them. And I suggest you go read the statistics on gang activity. We have 100,000 gang members in Houston, many of them culled from and recruited by cartels. You show some recent statistics that don't include non border states for Your claims.

 

[Carlybee]

Illegal labor is not on par with the trade schools. You get what you pay for in some instances.

Not true...there are many skilled illegals working in the construction industry from cabinetmakers to plumbers.

 

[AuH20]

Not true...there are many skilled illegals working in the construction industry from cabinetmakers to plumbers.

I work in the industry. Trade school labor is better on average, especially in the MEPS divisions.

 

[Carlybee]

I said this on another thread-

I lived in a high-end ski town; the service jobs were all Latinos because NO ONE would take them. They paid well over min.wage and were good jobs, however, the community was much too good to take a job in house-keeping, maintenance or construction. One home-healthcare lady could not get anyone to fill good-paying jobs taking care of the elderly at home. After months, she did finally find a couple of Latino ladies who did the job and did it well.

So "fair"? I first want someone who will take the job- secondly, I want someone who can do the job. If a Latino immigrant is a better carpenter than the one I've got, who do you think I should hire? No one is going to hire someone just because they're cheap. They have to be able to do the job or the boss-man will lose his customers.

The very best workers in the service industry, that I have encountered, are Mexicans- no brag, just fact.

Well I don't live in a ski town. I live in a city with oil industry and construction jobs. Granted very few want to be a roughneck on a drilling rig but they are high paying jobs and many of them require skilled labor.

 

[Carlybee]

I work in the industry. Trade school labor is better on average, especially in the MEPS divisions.

I don't know what that means. I am not talking about trade schools. I am talking about illegals making up many skilled crafts jobs. I know a cabinetmaker who lost his job and is now doing it on his own because he can't make the same money he once did due to the hiring of illegals who work cheaper than he is willing to.

 

[AuH20]

I don't know what that means. I am not talking about trade schools. I am talking about illegals making up many skilled crafts jobs. I know a cabinetmaker who lost his job and is now doing it on his own because he can't make the same money he once did due to the hiring of illegals who work cheaper than he is willing to.

I'm talking about union labor that is groomed though their own internal trade schools.

 

[Carlybee]

You are ignoring the consumer.

It isn't fair that business is taxed and regulated to the point of becoming an endangered species. That people must compete for by and large worthless jobs, for depreciating dollars, and are prevented from bettering themselves in any meaningful way. Where free trade is stifled for all sorts of protectionist, foolish, shortsighted policies.

What of the people who could not afford the labor else wise? (and why is a majority coming together at some point in time sufficient to dictate who they can hire to do what) What about the money they've saved on a particular service being used elsewhere? What about producers and laborers finding creative ways to remain competitive? Why, nothing about them. The government will help fix a price and everyone will be visibly better off for it (after all, who cares to look at the larger picture). The same could be said of the reasoning behind the minimum wage, licensing schemes, and any other protectionist restrictions to the market.

So screw American workers then? A carpenter should cut his asking rate considerably so companies can hire illegals cheaper? And on top of that pay taxes to support them coming over here?

 

[Carlybee]

I'm talking about union labor that is groomed though their own internal trade schools.

I specifically said I wasn't referring to union jobs. Most jobs here are non union.

 

[Carlybee]

You are entitled to your opinions. My stance is the same as Ron Paul's.




Can't get it to imbed

 

[Ender]

Lmao...I know a bunch of them. And I suggest you go read the statistics on gang activity. We have 100,000 gang members in Houston, many of them culled from and recruited by cartels. You show some recent statistics that don't include non border states for Your claims.

This is because of the WoD and the alphabets and NOT about illegals-

 

[kcchiefs6465]

So screw American workers then? A carpenter should cut his asking rate considerably so companies can hire illegals cheaper? And on top of that pay taxes to support them coming over here?

Well, that might be how the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, or other demagogues may word it however I wouldn't so much say, "Down with American labor," as I would say, "Up with competition." A carpenter should ask what they wish to ask (what one prices their labor at does not concern me, it is their business). If their work is exceptional they will be able to ask more for it. They could even cater specifically to those who do not like foreign labor if there was such a market for it. They can use slogans of 'Made in America' or what have you and people could consider their options accordingly. On principle, and in effect, what you propose is in line with the dozens of other things proposed. I do not particularly see how you make the distinction between which protectionist policies are of the good kind and which are of the bad. Certainly you wouldn't agree with the bulk of foolish progressive [protectionist] policies.

Preferably people would realize their foolish ways and not extort anyone to pay for anything they do not want. You are in Texas. How can it not be passed? Nullification of No Child Left Behind, a rejection of federal policy dictating the education system, a dissolution of Social Security. It would appear to me that your fellow countrymen have something to be gained in this as well. Quid pro quo voting. Their schemes and plunderous ways will bankrupt this country long before immigration policy. Yet most aren't so vehemently against them. In short, I have to go to work, I'll respond more later, but no, no one should be robbed to pay for anyone.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

You cannot have an open border and provide entitlements. Forcing taxpayers to pay for the care and upkeep of immigrants violate personal property rights.

People who think these immigrants do not apply for and get every single freebie they can the minute they get here is living in a land of unicorns and flying babies with gossamer wings. Not to mention the criminals who steal, assault, murder, rape...if that is not a violation of personal property I don't know what is.

[SIZE=-1]

How "Marxist" Has [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]the United States [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Become?[/SIZE]
http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/tenplanks.html


You know these politicians always use symbols for political gain, like using the flag and children ...it's all going accordingly to plan:

[SIZE=+3]The Ten Planks of the
[SIZE=+4]Communist Manifesto
[/SIZE]
1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose. [/SIZE]

The courts have interpreted the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868) to give the government far more "eminent domain" power than was originally intended, Under the rubric of "eminent domain" and various zoning regulations, land use regulations by the Bureau of Land Management property taxes, and "environmental" excuses, private property rights have become very diluted and private property in landis, vehicles, and other forms are seized almost every day in this country under the "forfeiture" provisions of the RICO statutes and the so-called War on Drugs..

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
The 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913 (which some scholars maintain was never properly ratified), and various State income taxes, established this major Marxist coup in the United States many decades ago. These taxes continue to drain the lifeblood out of the American economy and greatly reduce the accumulation of desperately needed capital for future growth, business starts, job creation, and salary increases.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Another Marxian attack on private property rights is in the form of Federal & State estate taxes and other inheritance taxes, which have abolished or at least greatly diluted the right of private property owners to determine the disposition and distribution of their estates upon their death. Instead, government bureaucrats get their greedy hands involved .

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
We call it government seizures, tax liens, "forfeiture" Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
The Federal Reserve System, created by the Federal Reserve Act of Congress in 1913, is indeed such a "national bank" and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States. This is exactly what Marx had in mind and completely fulfills this plank, another major socialist objective. Yet, most Americans naively believe the U.S. of A. is far from a Marxist or socialist nation.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.
In the U.S., communication and transportation are controlled and regulated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) established by the Communications Act of 1934 and the Department of Transportation and the Interstate Commerce Commission (established by Congress in 1887), and the Federal Aviation Administration as well as Executive orders 11490, 10999 -- not to mention various state bureaucracies and regulations. There is also the federal postal monopoly, AMTRAK and CONRAIL -- outright socialist (government-owned) enterprises. Instead of free-market private enteprrise in these important industries, these fields in America are semi-cartelized through the government's regulatory-industrial complex.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
While the U.S. does not have vast "collective farms" (which failed so miserably in the Soviet Union), we nevertheless do have a significant degree of government involvement in agriculture in the form of price support subsidies and acreage alotments and land-use controls. The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. And I almost forgot...The Equal Rights Amendment means that women should do all work that men do including the military and since passage it would make women subject to the draft.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
We call it the Planning Reorganization Act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.
People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" .
​

​

 

[Carlybee]

This is because of the WoD and the alphabets and NOT about illegals-

Regardless it's happening and it is a threat to life and property

 

[TruckinMike]

Illegals and war are the health of the state. ...why else would the state be encouraging it?;-)

/thread.

 

[AuH20]

Are you kidding me? Another POS mandarin in a black robe. What if the federal government is derelict in it's duty? Then what?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/23/court-strikes-montana-immigration-law/11276379/

HELENA, Mont. — A Montana judge has ruled that enactment of the state's 2012 voter-approved law banning undocumented immigrants from accessing state services is pre-empted by federal law and is unenforceable.

The law, which aims to deny government jobs and assistance to people in the U.S. illegally, required certain state agencies to certify through a federal database that those requesting services were United States citizens. If a person was not in the country legally, the Montana agency must turn over the name to federal immigration officials.

 

[Ender]

Regardless it's happening and it is a threat to life and property

So, let's all work together on the BIG PICTURE and not be pushing for more laws that will come back to bite the average American in the butt.

 

[Ender]

THIS is the real prob:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...of-police-militarization-in-the-United-States

 

[AuH20]

THIS is the real prob:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...of-police-militarization-in-the-United-States

And if illegals had it their way, there would be no 2nd amendment, among other things. No mounting of a resistance against the police state would be allowed.

 

[Carlybee]

So, let's all work together on the BIG PICTURE and not be pushing for more laws that will come back to bite the average American in the butt.

Ender...what new laws have I suggested or promoted?