Are we paying to bring all these people from south of the border ?

[Madison320]

Laws against hiring illegal immigrants don't work if they are paid under the table or if they themselves become independent contractors. As for eVerify...well just another layer of bureaucracy...I would rather stem the tide.

If you believe in liberty we should not have laws against business owners hiring illegals. If we're going to have laws against non-citizens entering the country, the government should enforce those laws at the border or in public areas. Business should not have to bear that burden. Businesses should not be required to prove their employees are legal in a free country. That would be like having the government enter your house and demand proof that everyone living there was legal.

 

[Carlybee]

If you believe in liberty we should not have laws against business owners hiring illegals. If we're going to have laws against non-citizens entering the country, the government should enforce those laws at the border or in public areas. Business should not have to bear that burden. Businesses should not be required to prove their employees are legal in a free country. That would be like having the government enter your house and demand proof that everyone living there was legal.

They don't...eVerify is voluntary. They do have to fill out an I9 form when someone is hired which requires certain forms of identification and that is a labor law so good luck getting rid of the Dept. Of Labor. All these things sound good in theory but would not work unless you get rid of the government in total. Oh and please tell me about this free country thing. My concern is with the outpouring of state funds to feed, cloth and house people who have no stake whatsoever in taking personal responsibility for themselves. It's bad enough legal citizens do it. Again why do we have to pay out 12 billion dollars a year in Texas and only recoup 1.7 billion for illegal aliens? That's a loss and cost to taxpayers of over 10 billion dollars A YEAR. Does your state pay out 10 billion dollars a year?

 

[Carlybee]

Once again.

Rothbard made distinctions between the Nation State vs The
Individual State



Rothbard from Nations by Consent: Decomposing the Nation State




Rothbard from National Determination








Tom Woods
http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/liberty-and-immigration

If you see Texas or any other state as a contractual community able to determine their own immigration policy then the individual state is itself the individual.

Unfortunately our leaders in the state by agreeing to become part of "The State", ie the United States of America, have agreed to acquiesce to national laws, hence why Article IV Section IV of the Constitution is what forces the Nation State to in turn be obligated to provide for the protection of the border. Where we split s what determines invasion. I think there can be non military invasion that still serves the purpose and can carry the same threat of loss to life and property as a military invasion in the esoteric sense. Obviously most on here disagree but I think it's all in the distinction of details.




In addition, and bear in mind this was from 1995


.

Thomas Woods

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/liberty-and-immigration

 

[Carlybee]

//

 

[Zippyjuan]

All these things sound good in theory but would not work unless you get rid of the government in total.

Which would allow anybody to come anytime they wanted to and do whatever they want when they get here.

Interesting study I found:
http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2006/12/new_texas_study_says_illegal_i.html

New Texas study says illegal immigrants are net benefit to economy

The Texas Controller, Carolyn Strayhorn, issued on 12/9 what she calls the first comprehensive financial analysis by a state of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services. Thanks to Cliff Treese for alerting me to it.

A supporter of a guest worker program, Stayhorn concludes that the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Yes- immigrants are all welfare using illness laden drug smuggling baby making liberal voting gang bangers.

Stop being so collectivist. It depends upon which immigrants you are talking about. Get your propaganda straight. Here's a guide:

- If they come across the southern border, they are the hardest working libertarians on the face of the planet.
- If they come in from Asia or South Asia, they are the smartest, best educated and hardest working libertarians on the face of the planet.
- If they come from northern Europe, they are white supremacists.
- If they come from Southern Europe, North Africa, or the Middle-East, they are Muslim terrists.
- If they come from Canada, they are just hosers.

 

[Carlybee]

Which would allow anybody to come anytime they wanted to and do whatever they want when they get here.

Interesting study I found:
http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2006/12/new_texas_study_says_illegal_i.html

Wow from the NY Times no less and from 2006. Keep trying... You're doing a great job propping up the liberal agenda. We in Texas will do whatever we have to do.

Oh here's an interesting study. http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-texans


Here's the pdf http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/TexasCostStudy_2014.pdf

 

[Zippyjuan]

Of course that comes from an anti-immigration site.
One article criticizes border security while indicating that border apprehensions are down by 80% from their peak (a point they gloss over).

Controlling our borders was not always as great a problem as it is today. In 1965, the number of aliens apprehended by the Border Patrol coming across the border was 110,000. That number rose to more than one million annually by 1977 and has only ebbed below that level since 2007. Most of those apprehensions have been along the U.S. Mexican border. They have accounted for more than 97 percent of apprehensions until recently, and even with the recent drop they still have been more than 96 percent of total apprehensions.

Reality:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...day-is-illegal-immigration-on-the-rise-again/

The extent of border control and continued illegal entry of aliens and contraband and the extent to which it represents a national security treat remain a major issue in the ongoing immigration reform debate. The proponents of an amnesty for the existing illegal alien population attempt to convince lawmakers that there is now sufficient border control overcome concerns that their proposal will lead to a further influx of illegal aliens as did the general amnesty for illegal aliens in 1986.

MMmm. Treats. Makes me hungry!

Keep in mind that about half of all illegal immigrants also entered the country legally. A completely sealed border (which is impossible) would at best keep half away.

 

[Carson]

I'm convinced that this is just the sort of thing the central banks love. Not only do they make money loaning the money to pay for such programs, it's also a way of getting the things they want done, done by having politicians will to spend taxpayers money to do it.

I'm also convinced a lot of money percolates from one place to another to see these special politicians get elected.


Remember the Solyndra money that went into Solyndra and then Solyndra made contributions to both parties.

Solyndra.


The argument for or against illegal immigration can be boiled down to two concepts.

Either you live by the rule of law or you don't.

The don'ts even want new laws for them to not follow!

Most of the do's would settle for seeing the laws we have enforced.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Me wonders why thou doth protest so much FOR illegal immigration.

I'm going to take a guess that those who protest in favor of illegal immigration are anarchists who don't think we should have laws (any laws) in the first place.

That's fine. And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the anarchist philosophy....I actually embrace it more than oppose it.

But the problem is, as I see it....you have to do things in stages. You can't have millions of illegal poor people coming to this country in order to take more hand-outs: crippling our already crumbling educational system.... overburdening a health care system that is going to be overwhelmed with Obamacare in the coming years....think of any other social entitlement program, and it will be even more strained than it already is...and all of this at taxpayer expense.

When we can convince the American people that we need to scale way back on these entitlement programs, then we can talk about open borders. When we're ready to say to everyone who comes into this country "Welcome. Now get to work, and enjoy the freedom the U.S. has to offer!" then and only then will it work.

Until then, we must secure our borders.

That's my opinion.

 

[LibForestPaul]

The Mexican government is supposedly issuing special 30 day passes for these migrants to pass through their country. That's how orchestrated this whole event is. Normally, the southern Mexican border is near impossible to cross due to the high security there.

I wonder if Mexicans can make a little extra by building high speed rail from South to Northern border, non-stop.

 

[Carlybee]

I'm going to take a guess that those who protest in favor of illegal immigration are anarchists who don't think we should have laws (any laws) in the first place.

That's fine. And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the anarchist philosophy....I actually embrace it more than oppose it.

But the problem is, as I see it....you have to do things in stages. You can't have millions of illegal poor people coming to this country in order to take more hand-outs: crippling our already crumbling educational system.... overburdening a health care system that is going to be overwhelmed with Obamacare in the coming years....think of any other social entitlement program, and it will be even more strained than it already is...and all of this at taxpayer expense.

When we can convince the American people that we need to scale way back on these entitlement programs, then we can talk about open borders. When we're ready to say to everyone who comes into this country "Welcome. Now get to work, and enjoy the freedom the U.S. has to offer!" then and only then will it work.

Until then, we must secure our borders.

That's my opinion.

And that's basically what I am saying. Either we protect our borders or we go all out Lord of the Flies...and this country is not ready for that without considerable loss of life. The PTB want us to overpopulate and keep cutting the pie thinner and thinner until the middle class is once and for all decimated.

 

[TheCount]

Source for that?

Sources? Facts? We don't need no steenking facts! We have feelings! I feel like there are a lot of illegal immigrants, and I feel like they are taking my jerbs and my tax money, therefore it is true and a problem.


Also, some people in the media said so and that means it's real.

 

[Carlybee]

Sources? Facts? We don't need no steenking facts! We have feelings! I feel like there are a lot of illegal immigrants, and I feel like they are taking my jerbs and my tax money, therefore it is true and a problem.


Also, some people in the media said so and that means it's real.

Just like some FEEL that the poor, hardworking immigrants are being shat upon by the mean ol people who don't want to support them monetarily. Think of the children! I've posted plenty of sources in various threads including articles from people like Ron Paul supporting the right to protect our sovereignty.

 

[Carson]

Here is an old list of money going to La Raza.

Keep in mind we didn't have any money to give and had to borrow from the central bank that counterfeited it up and devalued our currency.




FY 2000

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

CENTRO CULTURAL DE LA RAZA

California$89,083

LA CASA DE LA RAZA

California$10,000

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$2,994,422

LA RAZA

District of Columbia$1,196,000

LA RAZA NEWSPAPER

Illinois$675,000

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$3,045,062

NATIONAL COUNCIL ON LA RAZA

District of Columbia$70,500

PLAZA DE LA RAZA INC.

California$20,000


Federal funding for the year : $8,100,067


FY 2001

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$3,504,422

LA RAZA

District of Columbia$896,000

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$2,337,997

NATIONAL COUNCIL ON LA RAZA

District of Columbia$514,049

PLAZA DE LA RAZA INC.

California$18,000

Federal funding for the year : $7,270,468



FY 2002

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$7,516,195

LA RAZA

District of Columbia$768,878

LA RAZA FARM LABOR LA RAZA FARM LABOR

Wisconsin$85,260

LA RAZA LLP AND UNIDO LLP

Wisconsin$206,250

NATIONAL COUNCIL LA RAZA

District of Columbia$100,000

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$1,034,733

NATIONAL COUNCIL ON LA RAZA

District of Columbia$180,000

PLAZA DE LA RAZA INC.

California$20,000

Federal funding for the year : $9,911,316


FY 2003

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$4,987,360

LA RAZA

District of Columbia$873,247

LA RAZA AUTO REPAIR INC

Florida$3,000

NATIONAL COUNCIL LA RAZA

District of Columbia$9,542

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$1,228,123

Federal funding for the year : $7,101,272


FY 2004

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

CENTRO LEGAL DE LA RAZA

California$150,000

DISCOTECA LA RAZA

North Carolina$25,000

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$5,499,626

LA RAZA CENTRO LEGAL, INC.

California$62,500

LA RAZA GALERIA POSADA

California$74,568

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$2,928,695

Federal funding for the year : $8,740,389


FY 2005

Recipient Name

State

Federal Funding (for this search)

GULF COAST COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

Texas$200,000

LA CLINICA DE LA RAZA

California$5,439,732

LA RAZA CENTRO LEGAL, INC.

California$97,500

NATIONAL COUNCIL LA RAZA

District of Columbia$-7,345 **

NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA

District of Columbia$1,509,850

SUPER LA RAZA

California$353,000

Federal funding for the year : $7,592,737

From an article posted here;

http://www.alipac.us/f9/dont-use-my-tax-money-buy-americas-hangin-rope-56948/

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

The Intention is to overwhelm the system, justify more spending... does anyone think these people give a shit more about the US Constitution or the freebees from Uncle Sugar and the Socialist States? These people will not fight the tyranny of the government hand that gives them free shit. This is the secret policies to continue to lower the standard of living in the U.S., all the while, inject more and more people to maintain the PONZI/PYRAMID schemes.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I'm going to take a guess that those who protest in favor of illegal immigration are anarchists who don't think we should have laws (any laws) in the first place.

That's fine. And I'm not saying I'm opposed to the anarchist philosophy....I actually embrace it more than oppose it.

But the problem is, as I see it....you have to do things in stages. You can't have millions of illegal poor people coming to this country in order to take more hand-outs: crippling our already crumbling educational system.... overburdening a health care system that is going to be overwhelmed with Obamacare in the coming years....think of any other social entitlement program, and it will be even more strained than it already is...and all of this at taxpayer expense.

When we can convince the American people that we need to scale way back on these entitlement programs, then we can talk about open borders. When we're ready to say to everyone who comes into this country "Welcome. Now get to work, and enjoy the freedom the U.S. has to offer!" then and only then will it work.

Until then, we must secure our borders.

That's my opinion.

I don't think the bold is accurate. The Rothbardian anarchists at LRC (who I mostly identify with, though I defend similar positions with a different epistemological justification) certainly believe laws should exist. Its the monopoly on law-making and law enforcement that we disagree with.

Regarding immigration, its never been my biggest issue because I just don't feel like it affects me that much. I think its completely appropriate to deny these people government handouts (while such handouts exist, though they shouldn't.) But I don't think its appropriate to deny them the right to work in an arrangement they agree to with some private employer. I see absolutely no good reason we can't have our cake and eat it too here. Political partisanship would be the only reason.

Allow free immigration, but limit government handouts of any kind (while they still exist) only to people who were born in the US.

Problem solved.

 

[donnay]

The Intention is to overwhelm the system, justify more spending... does anyone think these people give a shit more about the US Constitution or the freebees from Uncle Sugar and the Socialist States? These people will not fight the tyranny of the government hand that gives them free shit. This is the secret policies to continue to lower the standard of living in the U.S., all the while, inject more and more people to maintain the PONZI/PYRAMID schemes.

^^^This!

That is what so many people cannot wrap their heads around...this illegal hijacked government want to put Americans in the poor house.

I have absolutely no problem with people from other countries coming to America to search for a better life. I have a problem when they come here and I am forced to pay for them and their families better life!

 

[AuH20]

The Intention is to overwhelm the system, justify more spending... does anyone think these people give a shit more about the US Constitution or the freebees from Uncle Sugar and the Socialist States? These people will not fight the tyranny of the government hand that gives them free shit. This is the secret policies to continue to lower the standard of living in the U.S., all the while, inject more and more people to maintain the PONZI/PYRAMID schemes.

What's funny is that United States was intentionally created as a sanctuary to escape from the mob mentality which perpetrated the empires of old. Now we're simply turning our back on the design and letting the dregs of humanity in, until there will be nothing left but that which exists outside our borders. It's already bad enough that we are saddled with these traitorous elites and now let's augment the mob factor by 10.

Freedom is actively being suppressed in this country. The answer to our woes is more people who self-identify as a specific group from a lower socioeconomic class. You have to be a world class idiot to believe this ruse.

 

[Carlybee]

Well I for one am tired of trying to convince people. To the open borders people be careful what you wish for...because it's here. Keep slicing the pie.