Are we paying to bring all these people from south of the border ?

[Brian4Liberty]

You cannot have an open border and provide entitlements.

Somehow, that long time, well respected opinion (in libertarian circles) has been thrown away. One factor is probably the success of Marxist-progressive conditioning. They have demonized all prerequisites, caveats, rules, conditions and laws related to immigration.

 

[Carlybee]

Somehow, that long time, well respected opinion (in libertarian circles) has been thrown away. One factor is probably the success of Marxist-progressive conditioning. They have demonized all prerequisites, caveats, rules, conditions and laws related to immigration.

It appears to have been thrown away among some of the libertarians on this forum.

 

[AuH20]

It just keeps getting better....

http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/2013/03/12/latino-voters-favor-gun-restrictions/

Conditioned to be subservient?:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-whites-blacks-own-guns-gallup_n_2618165.html

“Many of us come from countries where only the police, the military, and the criminal element have access to firearms,” Cuban-American commentator Raul Más Canosa writes in an op-ed published by Fox News Latino. “In most of Latin America it is difficult, if not impossible, for the average person to legally obtain a firearm for self-protection or sporting use.”

 

[cajuncocoa]

You cannot have an open border and provide entitlements.

Why is this so hard to understand? We can pretend we live in a perfect world, where we just expect these people to come here and work hard -- and poof! they will because we want them to. But the fact of the matter is, the majority are coming here because we're handing out freebies. Heck, people in our own country are standing in line every day for those same freebies....why would immigrants be any different?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of paying for entitlements for those who are legally here. Let's not add illegals to the tab.

 

[Carlybee]

Why is this so hard to understand? We can pretend we live in a perfect world, where we just expect these people to come here and work hard -- and poof! they will because we want them to. But the fact of the matter is, the majority are coming here because we're handing out freebies. Heck, people in our own country are standing in line every day for those same freebies....why would immigrants be any different?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of paying for entitlements for those who are legally here. Let's not add illegals to the tab.

The prevailing thought process seems to be...oh well, they don't eat much.

 

[Carlybee]

They do however need underwear

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/06...f-pairs-of-underwear-for-detained-immigrants/

 

[Carlybee]

Can we bill someone for this? Oh silly me...

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/06/23/u-s-plans-child-migrant-processing-center-in-texas/

 

[AuH20]

Why is this so hard to understand? We can pretend we live in a perfect world, where we just expect these people to come here and work hard -- and poof! they will because we want them to. But the fact of the matter is, the majority are coming here because we're handing out freebies. Heck, people in our own country are standing in line every day for those same freebies....why would immigrants be any different?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of paying for entitlements for those who are legally here. Let's not add illegals to the tab.

If you took 4 million Americans and suddenly airdropped them into the heart of Brazil there would be problems. And I wouldn't fault the Brazilians from acting negatively towards their new guests. But apparently only Americans can be racist when entire blocs from Mexico and other Central American countries move into our country. There are profound cultural differences between us, along with the scarcity of resources which you pointed out.

 

[Christian Liberty]

It appears to have been thrown away among some of the libertarians on this forum.

Not me. But again, why can't we have our cake and eat it to? Make a law saying that people not born in the US cannot receive any money from the government.

It just keeps getting better....

http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/2013/03/12/latino-voters-favor-gun-restrictions/

Conditioned to be subservient?:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-whites-blacks-own-guns-gallup_n_2618165.html

How does that compare to the rest of the country?

 

[cajuncocoa]

Not me. But again, why can't we have our cake and eat it to? Make a law saying that people not born in the US cannot receive any money from the government.

Why not just enforce laws already on the books instead of creating a need for new ones? And why not scale back on some of these entitlements that are bleeding us dry even without an influx of illegals coming in through our porous borders?

 

[Carlybee]

Not me. But again, why can't we have our cake and eat it to? Make a law saying that people not born in the US cannot receive any money from the government.


?

Because you have to have an administration and congress that allows laws to be enforced.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Why not just enforce laws already on the books instead of creating a need for new ones?

The thing is, if someone wants to come here to work, or someone wants to hire them, I don't see why that should be in any way a crime. Its not an aggressive action.

And why not scale back on some of these entitlements that are bleeding us dry even without an influx of illegals coming in through our porous borders?

Well, yes, I would agree with destroying all of those regardless.

 

[AuH20]

Because you have to have an administration and congress that allows laws to be enforced.

And the court system intervenes if a state is finally fed up. See Montana.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Because you have to have an administration and congress that allows laws to be enforced.

I know what you're trying to say here, but in reality this is somewhat bizarre. Our administration and congress "allows" millions upon millions of laws to be enforced. Just not those few that might actually be useful. They want to make it so they can pass more laws.

I'm not generally a "law and order" type but I do agree with what you are saying here. It has nothing to do with desire for freedom on the Obama Admin's part. It has to do with wanting to bring more subservient, government-dependent people in. I can agree that that's a bad thing, even if I do object to regulating immigration (anywhere, and my issues relate to the NAP, not fake racism charges) on principle.

That's why I've never cared much about this one. Libertarians agree on the correct end-game result, I think. The only disagreements are over what the second-best option is, and I don't know the answer to that.

 

[Carlybee]

The thing is, if someone wants to come here to work, or someone wants to hire them, I don't see why that should be in any way a crime. Its not an aggressive action.



Well, yes, I would agree with destroying all of those regardless.

Any worker not coming through the southern border has to jump through hoops for a work visa, why should those coming from Mexico and Latin America get a free pass while others don't? Is there ever a limit? Should we wait until we are as overcrowded as China before we say enough? Are we now globalists?

 

[Madison320]

By the same token, is it fair that a carpenter loses his job to an illegal who will work for much less? They don't just come here and take the crappy jobs that nobody wants, they take skilled labor jobs too and I am not talking about overpaid union jobs. To look at the entitlement problem among our own citizens one has to look at unemployment. Are people too lazy to work or are they priced out of their own industry? It's a conundrum.

No one has a right to a job. It's wrong to protect the carpenter at the expense of everyone else who has to buy his overpriced services.

What you need to understand is that businesses don't have unlimited resources. If they are forced to pay more for a legal worker there's a good chance that they'll go out of business. It's just like raising the minimum wage. People think if you raise the minimum wage, businesses will just pay it out of their pool of unlimited resources. What happens in reality when you raise the minimum wage is that businesses have LIMITED resources and have to cut jobs or raise prices or go out of business.

 

[AuH20]

Any worker not coming through the southern border has to jump through hoops for a work visa, why should those coming from Mexico and Latin America get a free pass while others don't? Is there ever a limit? Should we wait until we are as overcrowded as China before we say enough? Are we now globalists?

Globalists want to intervene globally and we suffer domestically because of their pigheadness. It's all tied together. Commerce is one thing, but adopting a sizable percentage of another nation isn't our responsibility.

 

[Carlybee]

No one has a right to a job. It's wrong to protect the carpenter at the expense of everyone else who has to buy his overpriced services.

What you need to understand is that businesses don't have unlimited resources. If they are forced to pay more for a legal worker there's a good chance that they'll go out of business. It's just like raising the minimum wage. People think if you raise the minimum wage, businesses will just pay it out of their pool of unlimited resources. What happens in reality when you raise the minimum wage is that businesses have LIMITED resources and have to cut jobs or raise prices or go out of business.

For the record I am opposed to unions and to the raising of minimum wages. I just think a local carpenter shouldn't be forced out of his profession because cheap labor is encouraged to come here illegally. It's bad enough legal immigrants come here on work visas and work cheaper taking American jobs without encouraging illegals.

 

[Carlybee]

Globalists want to intervene globally and we suffer domestically because of their pigheadness. It's all tied together. Commerce is one thing, but adopting a sizable percentage of another nation isn't our responsibility.

And we are acquiring a sizeable percentage of several nations residents. And paying them for it by way of financial aid.

 

[AuH20]

And we are acquiring a sizeable percentage of several nations residents. And paying them for it by way of financial aid.

Case in point. CIA creates havoc in Syria and we pay for it TWICE!! The globalists need to be eradicated.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/05/us-syria-crisis-usa-refugees-idUSBREA141ZQ20140205