Apparently Democrats are bigots about Mormanism

[low preference guy]

yeah, I don't know as I'm not gay so I can't say either way. Being straight certainly didn't feel like a choice to me.

I think I'm stealing your lines, but I have to ask you this:

Do you think if you choose and try really hard to like guys you'll succeed?

 

[jmdrake]

I don't have the link here, but a similar poll was conducted over who you would allow your children to marry.

Atheists were again, at the bottom of the list. Even Muslims were more approved of, by a wide margin, over atheists.

Why is that at all surprising? People are usually more accepting of people they have more in common with. A Christian might not like a Muslim but think "Hey, at least we both believe in God". I was listening to Michael Savage last night and he was having a most pleasant conversation with a Muslim who was telling him about his (the Muslim's) Jewish ex-girlfriend. A Jew and a Muslim dating is less surprising than Savage and a Muslim having a pleasant conversation.

Anyway, I'm getting off track. My experience with atheists here is that many of them would prefer atheists leaders. It's at least once a month where I see some post where someone says "Believing in God is totally incompatible with liberty!" or "Anyone who believes in God is a complete nutcase". Of course the obvious return question is "So why support Ron Paul" where I get the predictable response of "Well that's the only thing I don't like about him". They don't see the irony of supporting someone who by their own admission is "totally incompatible with liberty" or a "total nutcase". Oh well.

 

[low preference guy]

My experience with atheists here is that many of them would prefer atheists leaders. It's at least once a month where I see some post where someone says "Believing in God is totally incompatible with liberty!" or "Anyone who believes in God is a complete nutcase". Of course the obvious return question is "So why support Ron Paul" where I get the predictable response of "Well that's the only thing I don't like about him". They don't see the irony of supporting someone who by their own admission is "totally incompatible with liberty" or a "total nutcase". Oh well.

I am not religious and I want RP to be President. His Christianity doesn't bother me at all. Zero.

 

[specsaregood]

I am not religious and I want RP to be President. His Christianity doesn't bother me at all. Zero.

ditto.

 

[svobody]

Mormons believe some very, very strange things. Their church has an ugly history (see: their founder marrying extremely young GIRLS, multiple wives, history of blacks in the church). Their beliefs are not backed up by any historical record (even church apologists have admitted the 'Jesus visiting the Native Americans' narrative is completely unsupported by archaeological findings). Their conception of the Trinity, and Godhead in general is completely different from all other Protestant churches, as well as Catholic and Orthodox. In fact, many religious scholars will tell you that Mormonism is a cult, and despite their claims is most certainly separate from what most understand to be Christianity. Many people are wary of the Mormons, and I think it is unfair to call them bigoted. There are many disconcerting things about this religion.

 

[jmdrake]

I am not religious and I want RP to be President. His Christianity doesn't bother me at all. Zero.

ditto.

Mormons believe some very, very strange things. Their church has an ugly history (see: their founder marrying extremely young GIRLS, multiple wives, history of blacks in the church). Their beliefs are not backed up by any historical record (even church apologists have admitted the 'Jesus visiting the Native Americans' narrative is completely unsupported by archaeological findings). Their conception of the Trinity, and Godhead in general is completely different from all other Protestant churches, as well as Catholic and Orthodox. In fact, many religious scholars will tell you that Mormonism is a cult, and despite their claims is most certainly separate from what most understand to be Christianity. Many people are wary of the Mormons, and I think it is unfair to call them bigoted. There are many disconcerting things about this religion.

Even with all that, if Ron Paul was Mormon and everything else was the same about him (or atheist) I'd still take him over all of the other main presidential candidates. It's Romney's policies I can't stand.

 

[TheDrakeMan]

Apparently Democrats are bigots about Mormanism

Is that like..

Worship of this guy?

 

[svobody]

Even with all that, if Ron Paul was Mormon and everything else was the same about him (or atheist) I'd still take him over all of the other main presidential candidates. It's Romney's policies I can't stand.

I think my, and most other people's biggest issue with voting for a Mormon would be this: If they believe in such an absurd (to me) religion, can I really trust their judgment? I mean, even an Atheist can say that while Christianity can appear to be ridiculous, it does have a very long history, historical backing, etc. But for me, looking at Mormonism, I see a very bizarre, at times dangerous "religion" that is in no way mainstream. I would prefer to vote for somebody savvy enough to see through what I view as obvious untruths. For these reasons, I would never vote for a Mormon. Maybe that makes me a bigot, but I don't think so.

And seriously, no offense to anybody on this board that is Mormon - I've been friends with Mormons my whole life, and they've always been very nice to me, so it's nothing personal.

 

[low preference guy]

I think my, and most other people's biggest issue with voting for a Mormon would be this

I feel the same way about the beliefs of Christians and Jews, but it doesn't matter for a politician. The thing that is important about a politician is whether or not he wants to repeal laws and reduce the size of government.

 

[The Dark Knight]

I think my, and most other people's biggest issue with voting for a Mormon would be this: If they believe in such an absurd (to me) religion, can I really trust their judgment? I mean, even an Atheist can say that while Christianity can appear to be ridiculous, it does have a very long history, historical backing, etc. But for me, looking at Mormonism, I see a very bizarre, at times dangerous "religion" that is in no way mainstream. I would prefer to vote for somebody savvy enough to see through what I view as obvious untruths. For these reasons, I would never vote for a Mormon. Maybe that makes me a bigot, but I don't think so.

And seriously, no offense to anybody on this board that is Mormon - I've been friends with Mormons my whole life, and they've always been very nice to me, so it's nothing personal.

I am Mormon, you Lie! Mormonism has taught me to support the Constitution, and live within my means, Serve others, love your neighbor ect.... Its a peaceful religion with a very strong Libertarian streak in it.

 

[dannno]

You really have to be careful when talking about 'weird' Mormon things, because a lot of people like to exaggerate.

Mormons believe some very, very strange things. Their church has an ugly history (see: their founder marrying extremely young GIRLS, multiple wives, history of blacks in the church).

Men are naturally attracted to young girls and have been marrying them for as long as we have existed. It was more accepted back then than it is now because of our educational system which is mandatory until age 18, which is long past when many women used to begin having children. This is the primary reason why there are a lot more children out of wedlock and pre-marital sex today.

Blacks have ALWAYS been allowed in the Mormon church. During the time Joseph Smith was a prophet, they were allowed to receive the priesthood. At some point soon after they were not, and then they were again back in the 70s.. but they've always been allowed in the church.

Their beliefs are not backed up by any historical record (even church apologists have admitted the 'Jesus visiting the Native Americans' narrative is completely unsupported by archaeological findings).

That isn't true either. I remember watching a video that was about 45 minutes that detailed archaeological findings that were consistent with LDS church doctrine. Baptismal fonts, temples, etc. I'm not saying that's what they were, but it is certainly possible.

Their conception of the Trinity, and Godhead in general is completely different from all other Protestant churches, as well as Catholic and Orthodox. In fact, many religious scholars will tell you that Mormonism is a cult, and despite their claims is most certainly separate from what most understand to be Christianity. Many people are wary of the Mormons, and I think it is unfair to call them bigoted. There are many disconcerting things about this religion.

It's ridiculous to say that because they have a different idea of the trinity, some how because of that they are a cult. I've had discussions with born-agains for hours on end where they tried to convince me that the LDS church was a Satanic cult. Born-agains seemed way more like a cult to me.

As far as their temple ceremonies, I've heard that some people who converted from Judaism to Mormonism say that the temple ceremonies are more similar to those that were performed thousands of years ago by the Jewish religion.

 

[svobody]

You really have to be careful when talking about 'weird' Mormon things, because a lot of people like to exaggerate.



Men are naturally attracted to young girls and have been marrying them for as long as we have existed. It was more accepted back then than it is now because of our educational system which is mandatory until age 18, which is long past when many women used to begin having children. This is the primary reason why there are a lot more children out of wedlock and pre-marital sex today.

Blacks have ALWAYS been allowed in the Mormon church. During the time Joseph Smith was a prophet, they were allowed to receive the priesthood. At some point soon after they were not, and then they were again back in the 70s.. but they've always been allowed in the church.







That isn't true either. I remember watching a video that was about 45 minutes that detailed archaeological findings that were consistent with LDS church doctrine. Baptismal fonts, temples, etc. I'm not saying that's what they were, but it is certainly possible.




It's ridiculous to say that because they have a different idea of the trinity, some how because of that they are a cult. I've had discussions with born-agains for hours on end where they tried to convince me that the LDS church was a Satanic cult. Born-agains seemed way more like a cult to me.

As far as their temple ceremonies, I've heard that some people who converted from Judaism to Mormonism say that the temple ceremonies are more similar to those that were performed thousands of years ago by the Jewish religion.

1. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl. This was not culturally normal when it happened, and it still isn't. This is well documented. The early church practiced, and encouraged polygamy. I find this morally reprehensible, and you will never convince me it was normal, acceptable, needed, or just. Not buying it.

2. On blacks in the church: "Negroes IN THIS LIFE are denied the priesthood; UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added. (See also LDS Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 1:2). Yes, this sounds very accepting and tolerant.

3. It is consensus among mainstream archaeologists that the historical aspects of the Book of Mormon can in many cases being proven false, or contradictory. There is an entire Wiki page on this, with sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archae...forts_to_establish_Book_of_Mormon_archaeology . The Book of Mormon is not historically sound, and there is a reason it is not treated in historical circles with the same respect as the Bible.

4. The definition of the Trinity is one of the most important things in Christianity. The Mormon conception of the Godhead is COMPLETELY different from that of Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical Christianity, etc. There is a reason most Christian churches do not view Mormons as Christians, and that is due to major, major, major theological differences. The only true similarity between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity is that they both believe in a historical figure named Jesus, however the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus. The Mormon Jesus visited North America.

I didn't post in this thread to debate the validity of Mormonism - but to deny that these are valid concerns about the religion, is I think at best, intellectually dishonest.

 

[dannno]

Again, you have to be REALLY careful when discussing Mormon history, there are A LOT of exaggerations and mis-truths.

1. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl. This was not culturally normal when it happened, and it still isn't. This is well documented. The early church practiced, and encouraged polygamy. I find this morally reprehensible, and you will never convince me it was normal, acceptable, needed, or just. Not buying it.

First of all, he claimed he never (ever) had sex with the girl who was 14 at the time of their marriage, even when she became older. There is no evidence that they ever had any sort of sexual relations.

Secondly, if there were 80 women in your town between age 18-25 and there were 20 men in the town between the age of 18-30, and you were trying to grow your new found religion, polygamy doesn't sound like a bad idea. For one thing, it keeps the women who can't find a spouse from:

A) Having to marry much older men

B) Attempting to seduce married men behind their wife's backs

C) General danger of living alone and having nobody to look after you on the frontier

These sound completely reasonable to me, and you seem to be unreasonable in your monogamous absolutism. I don't think it is healthy for polygamy to be rampant in general society, but in these circumstances it seems pretty reasonable to me.

2. On blacks in the church: "Negroes IN THIS LIFE are denied the priesthood; UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added. (See also LDS Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 1:2). Yes, this sounds very accepting and tolerant.

Obviously I think that is ridiculous, but the fact is they were still allowed to be apart of the religion, be baptised, married and saved. You are quoting ONE person and applying it to a belief system of millions of people.

3. It is consensus among mainstream archaeologists that the historical aspects of the Book of Mormon can in many cases being proven false, or contradictory. There is an entire Wiki page on this, with sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archae...forts_to_establish_Book_of_Mormon_archaeology . The Book of Mormon is not historically sound, and there is a reason it is not treated in historical circles with the same respect as the Bible.

I have no idea if the Book of Mormon is real, but I know what I saw in the video, which was not art but actual video of those temples, and I know what I've seen in Mormon temples. I also know that no matter what evidence they can show that people were wrong about something, or disappointed not to find something, I'm not going to base my entire anti-belief system on something that people claim they have not found happened thousands of years ago!! That is a ridiculous notion.

4. The definition of the Trinity is one of the most important things in Christianity. The Mormon conception of the Godhead is COMPLETELY different from that of Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical Christianity, etc. There is a reason most Christian churches do not view Mormons as Christians, and that is due to major, major, major theological differences.

They aren't that major, or anything really, in the context of Mormon theology.

Wow, they believe that Jesus is the SON of God and not actually God.. Heretics!! Burn them!! Give me a break.

Second of all, the main thing I hear is the stuff about how in the Bible it says something along the lines of "This IS the only word of God, anything else that claims to be the word of God is not." Ok, great, but that was true at the time the Bible was written.. nowhere in the scripture does it say that there will NEVER be anything added on, and if there was, I'm not a big believer in the Bible having a very good modern day translation anyway. Maybe the people who wrote it changed it around or something, who knows? It wasn't even written until over a hundred years after Christ was gone.

The only true similarity between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity is that they both believe in a historical figure named Jesus, however the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus. The Mormon Jesus visited North America.

That is YOUR belief.. but it's not intellectually dishonest since the Mormons can cite BIBLICAL scripture where Jesus says, "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold, and them I also must visit.."

So the Mormons say he visited SOUTH America (not North America), and other Christians say a bunch of crap that doesn't make any logical sense to me to refute this claim.

When somebody says that Mormons don't believe in the "same" Jesus, but some how the other Christian religions do believe in the same one, I have not once heard a good reason for this (but I have heard a lot of poor ass excuses for reasons that don't make very much sense).

I didn't post in this thread to debate the validity of Mormonism - but to deny that these are valid concerns about the religion, is I think at best, intellectually dishonest.

Not so sure about that.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Asked if they would be comfortable with a Mormon president, 60 percent of voters said they would be "comfortable" compared to 36 percent who said they'd be "uncomfortable."
By comparison, 83 percent of voters said they'd be comfortable with a Catholic in the White House, 80 percent with a Jewish president and 67 percent with a president who was an evangelical Christian. Just 38 percent of those polled said they'd be okay with a Muslim president, while 37 percent said they'd be comfortable with an atheist in the White House.
Who would have the most problems with a Mormon in the White House? Democrats. According to Quinnipiac, just 49 percent of Dems say they'd be okay with a Mormon president, compared to 68 percent of Republicans and 64 percent of self-described independent voters.

What about this is "bigotry" ?

I would "not be okay" with having a Mormon President. I don't like Presidents in general, or the Presidency. Maybe if there were a Mormon like Ron Paul, but that wouldn't happen.

Why don't we have a poll asking "would you be okay with having a scientologist as President?" Better to pick someone who has the least chance of having a completely delusional world-view. Maybe I'm a little bit more biased against the religions/cults that seem a little too far-gone even by today's standards.

 

[dannno]

I would "not be okay" with having a Mormon President.

So you're saying if Ron Paul was Mormon, everything else being equal, you wouldn't vote for him?

 

[doodle]

To be fair, no one party has monopoly on religious (or racial or other forms of) bigotry.

 

[doodle]

What about this is "bigotry" ?

I would "not be okay" with having a Mormon President.

Why?

 

[Vessol]

Mormons believe some very, very strange things.

Oh please.

Try explaining COMMUNION to someone who has no idea what it is.

Every religion has really strange practices IMO.

 

[BlackTerrel]

I could go on a long rant about my personal thoughts of Mormonism but, I don't want to be called a collectivist. It's not hard to see why people would be discriminate against them. They didn't allow blacks in their membership till the 1970's. That alone should give you an idea of how things have been ran in Salt Lake City for awhile now. Mormons view on heaven I think is also a blockade for acceptance in the majority, seriously shed all the polygamy. The only Mormons I can even find mildly palatable is Jeff Flake. Oh yeah, who is that blathering idiot on Fox that constantly screams the sky is falling over chickens crossing the road. (Glenn Beck) I can imagine people associate him with the group as a whole.

Honestly I could go on a long rant about how your post is complete shit and how if it was said about Jews or Muslims no one would tolerate it. (on this forum especially the latter).

I have had more than a few bad experiences with Mormons and it's my personal belief there is a stink of elitism in their circle. People don't like it when religions bar people from temples for tithing or membership requirements. I know there is a Mormons for Ron Paul groups, but is there any major Mormon figures that wave the flag of libertarianism like the Pauls?

There are however tons of prominent Baptist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian libertarians

 

[BlackTerrel]

I thought it was interesting that more people would be comfortable with a Muslim (and much more comfortable with a Mormon for that matter) as President than an atheist. Seems like atheists are getting a pretty raw deal too.

And yet we have a large number of people on this forum promoting not just atheism but MILITANT atheism on these forums and even trying to project that onto Ron Paul.

Why on earth would someone who wants Ron Paul to win do that?