Anyone else want to just say, "screw the GOP?"

[EvilEngineer]

I'm frankly sick of all of the crap we are having to put up with from the GOP, and really there is no reason we have to take it. Sadly we've been sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars raising money for them to participate in the straw polls, and for what, crooked results and back room corruption?

So why do we need the GOP to tell us who to vote for and who to support? Surely with our level of activism it is proof that a new organizational body needs to be born, one that strictly follows the constitution and the rights of the individual and equal exposure for candidates.

 

[winston_blade]

I'm frankly sick of all of the crap we are having to put up with from the GOP, and really there is no reason we have to take it. Sadly we've been sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars raising money for them to participate in the straw polls, and for what, crooked results and back room corruption?

So why do we need the GOP to tell us who to vote for and who to support? Surely with our level of activism it is proof that a new organizational body needs to be born, one that strictly follows the constitution and the rights of the individual and equal exposure for candidates.

In a word: no. I think we need to take over the GOP. Third parties will never be important in the US....at least not in my lifetime (I'm 19).

 

[constituent]

the third party issue is mostly proceedural no? as in it's primarily a matter of us choosing to ballot reform and seriously overhauling house/senate rules...???

 

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

We're working for the GOP nomination, so that might be a bad move.

The answer is to infiltrate the GOP. Assimilate the party.

That means you have to go to their events, get elected as GOP delegates (however Texas handles that), volunteer.

 

[jasonhlasvegas]

I think we can take over the Republican party, but in a way I think it is almost a moot point. I don't know what it is like in your area, but my MeetUp groups consistently have more people attend than my local GOP functions.

 

[disinter]

So why do we need the GOP to tell us who to vote for and who to support? Surely with our level of activism it is proof that a new organizational body needs to be born, one that strictly follows the constitution and the rights of the individual and equal exposure for candidates.

There is one. It has been around for quite some time now... it is called the Libertarian Party.

 

[disinter]

I talked to Kent Snyder at a fundraiser on Friday and he said that Ron Paul will absolutely NOT run as a third party candidate... he did leave open the possibility of an Independent run IF he lost the GOP nomination.

 

[trispear]

Realize one thing: there are parties within parties. These are called factions. (Ever heard of the Log Cabin Republicans? I wonder who they support anyway...)

The GOP is not one faceless clump with one opinion. Neither are the democrats.

The neocons are not the rightful sucessors of Goldwater. Neither are they Reagan's sucessors.

Parties can be infiltrated and changed. Look at what the neo-cons did to it. JFK called for cutting taxes during his presidency to stimulate the economy - whenever have you heard a democrat say that in the last few years. Woodrow Wilson, democrat, was one of the early proponents of exporting democracy around the world - now the republican are singing that tune.

We have to realize the hardcore neo-cons are few, but their voices are loud and influence other people within the party.

Infiltrating the party is easier than launching a new one. We don't need to start from scratch - some of the people on the republican side are reasonale.

In 2000, I was a hardcore Bush supporter. In 2002-3, I supported the war, I was wrong. In 2004, I supported Bush but less than previously. I had a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker on my car for 8 years (the last few out of sheer laziness) until I heard of Ron Paul. My point is that people can be won over. Keep at it.

 

[quickmike]

I already did that in 2004 LOL

 

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

I think we can take over the Republican party, but in a way I think it is almost a moot point. I don't know what it is like in your area, but my MeetUp groups consistently have more people attend than my local GOP functions.

That would work out swell if Ron Paul were running for the nomination of the Meetup groups.

But those people all need to get into the GOP, and quickly, in time to have an effect before caucuses and primaries.

 

[njandrewg]

screw that....GOP is for republicans, we take over the party, and if Neocons want to start wars etc, they are welcome to go start their own party.

 

[Cowlesy]

Ron can get the Republican Nomination -- no question.

Just look at the Texas Straw Poll. On the actual primary election day, about 10% of the people who say they are for some of the "frontrunners" will actually remember to go vote, while you can rest assured 100% of Ron Paul supporters will be at the polls at the ass-crack of dawn to ensure their vote is counted.

It's incredible how at this point, no other Republican candidate has envigorated anywhere the ardent support of Ron Paul supporters. It's ours to lose.

 

[mdh]

I'm frankly sick of all of the crap we are having to put up with from the GOP, and really there is no reason we have to take it. Sadly we've been sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars raising money for them to participate in the straw polls, and for what, crooked results and back room corruption?

So why do we need the GOP to tell us who to vote for and who to support? Surely with our level of activism it is proof that a new organizational body needs to be born, one that strictly follows the constitution and the rights of the individual and equal exposure for candidates.

Really, we have this in the Libertarian Party. Still a third party with all of the problems attached to that, but I think we're more likely to level the playing field either by procedural reforms as one person mentioned, or by spreading the word about the LP more efficiently, than we are to successfully "take over" the GOP as someone else suggested.
I just don't see the latter happening - the GOP is suckling at the teet of neocon funding by and large, and the neocons tend to own its other power bases such as media, etc.

Supporting procedural reforms in the areas of ballot access is a great way to help. So is helping to develop and promote independent media so that we can go around the big-media machines. And of course, supporting your local Libertarian Party is great, too. If your local/state LP isn't doing all it can to promote liberty and reforms to the systems that oppress us and our ideals, you really can make a difference there. Most LP's don't have billion dollar think-tanks and contributors who are in the neocon boat, that I can say for sure!

 

[mdh]

I just don't see these grand ideas of a GOP takeover as being possible. Unless those people can somehow mount the same sort of financial backing that the GOP currently has from its current base, it won't work. How many of those meetup members are millionaire+ members of the CFR?

I am curious however - of those folks saying this is the way to go, how many of you are GOP insiders?

I also want to remind folks that money given to the GOP will likely go to funding neocon initiatives and promoting candidates that many of us certainly would not agree with. Sad but true.

 

[expatriot]

As I just noticed elsewhere,
treating 'misguided souls' to a big party somewhere
the night before a poll with all the trimmings
in some venue miles and miles from the pollbooths
would be an interesting move.
Use a bus service that always runs tardy
and breaks down enroute, of course.

Seriously, though,
it is always easier to take over the gutted remains
of the GOP and rebuild it properly than it would
be to start all over again with a public confused
about who is running in what party.

Libertarians, Constitution, whatever,
(one of my fond groups) they are fringe
- they all lack the drones who vote party lines
just because they've always done so for generations
A pathetic fact of life and the way things work,
but we will get the GOP prize the way we are going,
given the good news sliding our way right now.

The late entrance of the puppet candidate will
dilute the field even further especially since
he has no substance but pulls based on charisma alone.
(Gotta wonder who talked him into this,
it is as nutty as an oak in autumn).

Common sense and reason will prevail provided
we maintain the rate of progress.
As people point out, we were frozen out in Fort Worth,
the real deal comes when we get into open ballots.

There is still a vast multitude who are blissfully unaware
of Ron Paul's message and direction and merely
getting them to sit still long enough to see and hear
the intensity of our message will be enough to win most over.

The GOP is ours for the taking and the days of
its many faults can be ended permanently if we
just keep the heat on.

The difference between a vote bought by RomneyDollars
or GiulianiBills and a vote bought by the passion
we all have for restoring our nation's integrity
is enough to bankrupt every political hack in D.C.

Hope this helps...

 

[mdh]

Seriously, though,
it is always easier to take over the gutted remains
of the GOP and rebuild it properly....

What evidence can you present to support this claim? I can support my counterclaim with the sheer sums of money brought to bear by the current GOP leadership, which is why they are the current GOP leadership.

Libertarians, Constitution, whatever,
(one of my fond groups) they are fringe
- they all lack the drones who vote party lines
just because they've always done so for generations
A pathetic fact of life and the way things work,
but we will get the GOP prize the way we are going,
given the good news sliding our way right now.

And if Dr. Paul does not receive the GOP nomination because of the sheer amount of money brought out by out opponents? Look at the fundraising numbers - Giuliani and Romney both beat us in $$$ raised. Will we win this quarter? Remains to be seen, but it's not looking like it. Do we have more passion? Sure. More people? Maybe. But the vast majority of voters don't care right now - their votes are bought in the last 4 ro 6 weeks before they go to the polls. The real question is how do we target those people during what amounts to a media blackout and without enough money to buy up media coverage the way that others candidates can?

The GOP is ours for the taking and the days of
its many faults can be ended permanently if we
just keep the heat on.

The difference between a vote bought by RomneyDollars
or GiulianiBills and a vote bought by the passion
we all have for restoring our nation's integrity
is enough to bankrupt every political hack in D.C.

Based on past evidence, I may have to sadly disagree. It remains to be seen. I think if we keep doing all we can, we may be able to pull out a victory for Dr. Paul at the GOP primary. It'd be awesome. But taking over the GOP? We have a better chance of getting Al Gore the GOP nomination than we do actually taking the party back from the neocons.

 

[Mastiff]

We're not "taking over" the GOP, we're just reminding people what a conservative has been all along. My workplace is all republicans and they almost all agree with RP on almost everything.

IMO, RP has a chance because he's not a typical Libertarian obsessed with drug legalization, open borders, cultural libertinism, and all that. The LP is full of people that I think are crazy, and most normal people think I'm crazy. Ron Paul is a breath of fresh air because he's grounded. I don't want him to run under the LP, I want to bring the GOP back around.

I know it's probably not popular to say around here, but if RP doesn't win the GOP nomination, I don't want him to run. He has enough momentum to basically sink the GOP nominee and hand the election to the Democrat. I think there's too much at stake with socialized medicine and global warming world government on the table.

 

[mdh]

Paleo-conservative?
Classical liberal?
Libertarian?

Different words, same meaning.


I'd rather Dr. Paul run as a Republican at this point, too - it's nigh-impossible to win the presidency on a third party ticket, and I want him to win. That said, in the future, I think that we should also focus on running third party candidates for other offices - and winning. Part of that will be pushes for those procedural reforms, and part of it will be supporting those third parties in a number of ways. The LP is raw opportunity for good candidates for any number of offices to succeed. It's proven fact that LP candidates can win election to public offices at a variety of state and local levels.

What seperates the neocon wing of the Republican party from the libertarian wing of the Republican party? A few billion dollars.

 

[expatriot]

The real question is how do we target those people during what amounts to a media blackout and without enough money to buy up media coverage the way that others candidates can?



Based on past evidence, I may have to sadly disagree. It remains to be seen. I think if we keep doing all we can, we may be able to pull out a victory for Dr. Paul at the GOP primary. It'd be awesome. But taking over the GOP? We have a better chance of getting Al Gore the GOP nomination than we do actually taking the party back from the neocons.

I know what you mean,
I am simply saying stay the course and keep the wheel steady,
what we must endure from here forward will be difficult but easier from
here on as we gain momentum.

And keep in mind we will not actually be 'taking the party over'
so much as reprogramming the memes that control t.
Some (many) neocons will wander off, some will assimilate,
and along the way the organization will be revitalized by a transfusion
of principle washing away the old stains.

Ultimately,
It is not a conflict of people but of ideas and principles which we
are engaged in.
Conspiracy buffs generally envision a group of shadowy figures
plotting around a table in a smoke-filled basement,
but the reality is that all this is a war of ideas we are in.
As SunTzu said, the battle is won once you have defeated
the mind of your adversary, and the MSM Blackout proves this
beyond any measurable doubt.

They fear us more than they fear anything else on the planet right now.

Steady as she goes, let the opposition waver before we do.

 

[inibo]

What evidence can you present to support this claim? I can support my counterclaim with the sheer sums of money brought to bear by the current GOP leadership, which is why they are the current GOP leadership.

You may be right about the national party, but in my state, Maryland, the party is $50,000 in debt. You better believe when a Ron Paul supporter, who is also a registered Republican, shows up at the door and writes them a check--even a small one--they take notice. When they set up a booth at a county fair and so many Ron Paul supporters volunteer to help staff it that they have to turn them away while supporters of other candidates show up in ones or twos, if at all, they notice that as well. When practical, pragmatic people are presented the choice--adapt or die--they generally don't choose suicide.

I'm only speculating, but I suspect there are many local party committees like Maryland's--dispirited and demoralized by the result of the neocon coup d’etat. All it will take is persistence on our part, a bit of long-term vision, a decision to stick to it and do what has to be done.

I don't want to screw the GOP, I want to seduce it.