Any other anti-capitalists in the house? A compelling argument against capitalism

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http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neil_clark/2007/02/wanted_an_erich_fromm_party.html

"A healthy economy is only possible at the expense of unhealthy human beings".

In The Sane Society (1955), Fromm argued that a society, in which "consumption
has become the de facto goal", was itself sick. He advanced his theory of social
character: that "every society produces the character it needs". Early Calvinistic
capitalism produced the "hoarding character", who hoards both possessions and
feelings: the classic Victorian man of property.

Post-war capitalism, Fromm argued, produced another, equally neurotic type: "the
marketing character", who "adapts to the market economy by becoming detached
from authentic emotions, truth and conviction". For the marketing character
"everything is transformed into a commodity, not only things, but the person
himself, his physical energy, his skills, his knowledge, his opinions, his feelings,
even his smiles". (For a perfect example of a "marketing character", just think of
the current inhabitant of No 10 Downing Street).

Modern global capitalism requires marketing characters in abundance and makes
sure it gets them. Meanwhile, Fromm's ideal character type, the mature
"productive character", the person without a mask, who loves and creates, and for
whom being is more important than having, is discouraged.

Fromm was also deeply concerned with the way that love, "the only sane and
satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence" was undermined by an
economic system which rewards greed and selfishness.

===== SOLUTION

The brainwashing methods used in modern advertising, described by Fromm as
the "poison of mass suggestion" must be prohibited. The gap between rich and
poor must be closed. A new, participatory form of democracy, "in which the
well-being of the community becomes each citizen's private concern", must be
introduced. There should be maximum decentralisation throughout industry and
politics. And most importantly of all, ''the right of stockholders and management of
big enterprises to determine their production solely on the basis of profit and
expansion" must be drastically curbed. Fromm was unequivocal: the needs of
people must come before the needs of capital.
 
each citizen's private concern i'm fine with.

must i am not.

what's funny is the way people pretend that those evil, war-mongering/profiteering
capitalists wouldn't be the ones running the state if that's what necessity required
to see them come out on top.

they're just working the system, as they would any system.

the real solution, good people have to start playin' the game.
 
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs...

No thanks, heard this baloney before, when I was too young to know better, and it still sounded like garbage. Look how well it worked out for the USSR.

Peddle this communist garbage somewhere else, please.
 
What people say is that a capitalist society creates mass consciousness for the vast majority of people....everything gets taken over with the capitalist mentality and ideology.

Consumerism, for example, is obscene in my opinion - a massive percentage of what people buy, they simply don't need.
 
Unrestrained corporate behemoths give capitalism a bad name. Limit the size and influence of corporations and capitalism is the greatest system in the world.
 
Unrestrained corporate behemoths give capitalism a bad name. Limit the size and influence of corporations and capitalism is the greatest system in the world.

True, did you read Gangs of America? Tells the story of what little rights corporations had at first, and how they eventually acquired all the powers and freedoms they have today.

Back in the day, they could only sell a certain thing for a certain period in a certain place, could not expand at all. They were recognised as fundamentally dangerous, anti-democratic, unaccountable entities.
 
What people say is that a capitalist society creates mass consciousness for the vast majority of people....everything gets taken over with the capitalist mentality and ideology.

Consumerism, for example, is obscene in my opinion - a massive percentage of what people buy, they simply don't need.

uhhh...

you don't see that consumerism and equate it w/ communism?

why must communism always be about scarcity?

this is like blaming obesity on cheeseburgers.

consumerism is a form of communism.

don't believe me? ask barack obama how to stimulate the economy.
 
"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -- Ron Paul

I do love the idea of a libertarian vision where everybody can make free contracts and where no state interferes...but what happens when corporations get too powerful?

There seems to be nothing in the Ron Paul vision (though I'm no Mises expert) to guard against corporate monopoly. Sure, I love the idea of no special interests/corporate welfare, and wall of separation between CEOs and public officials, but that strikes me as something you can't really avoid.

If any power structure gets too powerful it can easily infiltrate government.
 
I do love the idea of a libertarian vision where everybody can make free contracts and where no state interferes...but what happens when corporations get too powerful?

There seems to be nothing in the Ron Paul vision (though I'm no Mises expert) to guard against corporate monopoly. Sure, I love the idea of no special interests/corporate welfare, and wall of separation between CEOs and public officials, but that strikes me as something you can't really avoid.

If any power structure gets too powerful it can easily infiltrate government.

Corporations are sponsered by the government. The are not a natural phenomenon.
 
<snip>but what happens when corporations get too powerful?

There seems to be nothing in the Ron Paul vision (though I'm no Mises expert) to guard against corporate monopoly.

<snip>

If any power structure gets too powerful it can easily infiltrate government.

1) you and others organize protests and boycotts, you drive the company
out of business

2) you

3) you're right, any.
 
uhhh...

you don't see that consumerism and equate it w/ communism?
why must communism always be about scarcity?
this is like blaming obesity on cheeseburgers.
consumerism is a form of communism.
don't believe me? ask barack obama how to stimulate the economy.

Actually I'm not sure I understand.

I think production should be maximised, but in a sustainable way. I don't agree with the entire advertising/marketing industry, which produces nothing of real value.

What I don't accept is marketing culture, consumerist culture, because the whole point of that existence is just to buy and buy and buy some more. We have a finite planet, in terms of resources and space to use as landfill.
 
There seems to be nothing in the Ron Paul vision (though I'm no Mises expert) to guard against corporate monopoly.

Monopolies only exist with government interference. BUT If a natural monopoly happens that would be OK, because they would have gotten there by offering better services at lower costs. Monopolies are only bad when they start using unethical and illegal trade practices, and government allows them to do so.
 
Consumerism is another form of propaganda.

Look how insecure weak minds like Sean Hannity needs a Cadillac Escalade to get around. He needs to be recognized as a success, feels vulnerable so he has to buy an SUV (probably was given to him by GM). Any marketing class will demonstrate how you aren't selling a product, you are selling security, status, or any other human emotion that can be exploited.

Capitalism is superior to socialism, but it still has drawbacks. Selling crap to people who don't need more stuff doesn't really enhanced society, but it does fill the pockets of those who have learned how to manipulate people.
 
Corporations are sponsered by the government. The are not a natural phenomenon.

Here's the thing -- you can see right now there are loads of corporations that can sell any kind of shit if they market it right -- it's a scientific process and they can blow millions on advertising because its guaranteed to work.

The slide towards a dumb sheeple who mass-buy pop music, junk food and the rest is a natural consequence of allowing the corporations to attack you with marketing.

What do you say to this?
 
Corporations are sponsered by the government. The are not a natural phenomenon.

Corporations seem to be evolving into the next form of governance, as in world government and NWO. The transnational corporations are behind the elimination of national sovereignty.
 
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