Antidepressant Drugs Causing Epidemic of Mania, Mayhem and Murder

[tod evans]

To be honest this is what I do. I have the same problems as my brother and dad but I refuse to take any medication with horrible side effects. The harmful effects of prescription drugs have scared me into not wanting them in my body.

Personal responsibility..........What a refreshing outlook!

Now all that needs done is to decriminalize your choice of medication.

Others choose to eat legal pills, they need to accept responsibility for their behavior too.

 

[angelatc]

I think there is an uptick of random and multiple shootings, especially by kids and teenagers that probably would not have happened, had it not been for an adverse reaction to these drugs.

Fair enough, but the "probably" part isn't provable. I could easily argue that there probably would have been more of these incidents if mentally ill people weren't getting their medications. I blame society's tendency to continually look to place blame on external sources, instead of focusing on individual responsibility.

Nobody is responsible for their own actions any more. It's the fault of big pharma, big government, corporate America, MK ULtra, chem trails, the Jooz...but nobody is ever just fucking insane.

Not that I actually look for objective (or even rational) discussion on the subject of anything on the forums, but the argument is clearly biased and one sided when people simply refuse to consider that there are indeed millions of people who are indeed helped by the same drugs and methods that are demonized here, without any legitimate studies to support their claims.

I just hope that the young libertarians reading these threads don't decide not to seek help for their personal demons out of a baseless paranoid fear proposed by the vocal outliers of society.

 

[Kluge]

Not really. The majority of crime and fraud, in dollar amounts, is committed by the elite/wealthy.

Most of the crimes you are referring to (measurable community crime rates, personal property crimes, etc) are committed because those people are poor and desperate, not because they are psychotic.

Crimes committed out of poverty/desperation are also quite low. We don't have masses of people starving here. I'd think that a better guess as to why people rob, assault and murder is because they're not raised right, are addicted to something or are mentally ill (which includes sociopathy), or a combination of the three. Though I suppose that an addict could be considered desperate, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.

 

[tod evans]

Feeling out of sorts?

Just a tad antsy?

The tried-n-true 24hr lobotomy;

 

[donnay]

Fair enough, but the "probably" part isn't provable. I could easily argue that there probably would have been more of these incidents if mentally ill people weren't getting their medications. I blame society's tendency to continually look to place blame on external sources, instead of focusing on individual responsibility.

Nobody is responsible for their own actions any more. It's the fault of big pharma, big government, corporate America, MK ULtra, chem trails, the Jooz...but nobody is ever just fucking insane.

Not that I actually look for objective (or even rational) discussion on the subject of anything on the forums, but the argument is clearly biased and one sided when people simply refuse to consider that there are indeed millions of people who are indeed helped by the same drugs and methods that are demonized here, without any legitimate studies to support their claims.

I just hope that the young libertarians reading these threads don't decide not to seek help for their personal demons out of a baseless paranoid fear proposed by the vocal outliers of society.

The point is that with a lot of these instances the common denominator is psychotropic drugs! Go research a bit more about psychotropic drugs! Many people who were not depressed or psychotic were prescribed these drugs. After being on these drugs they had major mood swings, agitation and psychotic episodes. There are countless testimonies of these things happening. Pete posted them and I have posted SSRI stories, you need to take a look at it. It is truly glaring the problems that happen once people start taking these drugs.

Andrea Yates was on psychotropic drugs when she killed all five of her children! Susan Smith was on psychotropic when she drowned both her children! The list goes on and on...

 

[Anti Federalist]

Fair enough, but the "probably" part isn't provable. I could easily argue that there probably would have been more of these incidents if mentally ill people weren't getting their medications. I blame society's tendency to continually look to place blame on external sources, instead of focusing on individual responsibility.

I can't recall where I've ever said that I am not in favor of people taking responsibility for their actions.

For me, that's the point of bringing these incidents to light, to prove the damages that can be done.

Hell, I recall how the maker of Prozac, I can't recall the company off the top of my head, Eli Lilly perhaps, how they kicked screamed when they were forced to put a warning label on Prozac about the suicidal thoughts side effects. Side effects that were denied by the maker and the government for years, until it was proved.

Nobody is responsible for their own actions any more. It's the fault of big pharma, big government, corporate America, MK ULtra, chem trails, the Jooz...but nobody is ever just fucking insane.

Well, if one was truly insane, how is that the fault of the person? Something scrambled their brains. Maybe genetics, maybe a hormonal imbalance, maybe an injury, or maybe prescription pharmaceuticals or poisons in the food and water.

Not that I actually look for objective (or even rational) discussion on the subject of anything on the forums, but the argument is clearly biased and one sided when people simply refuse to consider that there are indeed millions of people who are indeed helped by the same drugs and methods that are demonized here, without any legitimate studies to support their claims.

Again, to get to the point of having "legitimate" studies done, there has to be some sort of outcry and agitation in order to get those studies done.

I just hope that the young libertarians reading these threads don't decide not to seek help for their personal demons out of a baseless paranoid fear proposed by the vocal outliers of society.

And I hope that:

A - Just like legal and cop advice that I talk about, that people do not base life saving decisions based solely on an anonymous internet posting and,

B - That people reading this, just like the legal and cop advice threads, take away a new understanding of the dangers posed and take it upon themselves to investigate further in order to make informed choices on some of the most serious decisions that they will ever make in life.

 

[JoshLowry]

Found this about flouride and prozac.

Is it basically the same flouride they put in our water? Seems that all fluoride compounds effect the thyroid per experiments in the '30's.

Anyone have better info/links on this relationship?

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm

 

[angelatc]

Well, if one was truly insane, how is that the fault of the person? Something scrambled their brains. Maybe genetics, maybe a hormonal imbalance, maybe an injury, or maybe prescription pharmaceuticals or poisons in the food and water.

But there have been insane people since there have been people on this planet. I can take you to the small Ohio town where my great-grandparents were born and show you the graves of a family that was slaughtered by a father that went bonkers back in the 1800's. There are thousands and thousands of stories just like that, predating any of the big scary chemicals that send the conspiracy theorists into a tizzy. I don't believe there is necessarily a reason that people go crazy. Some people are crazy - it's really that simple.

The problem here is that the fact that these people were prescribed psychiatric drugs only means that they were already disturbed on some level, so it's not like they gave a drug to a sane person who then proceeded to go crazy. More likely they gave drugs to a person who was already on the edge, and the drugs failed to pull them back.

I'm sticking firm to my position that these drugs have improved the lives of millions of people all over the world. Their success in the market speaks strongly to that, especially considering the propaganda disinformation squad has been gunning for them for years.

The position that they're evil only lends to more government. After all, if people are too gullible or stupid to decide for themselves what drugs they want to take, then the alternative is ...... what?

 

[angelatc]

Found this about flouride and prozac.

Is it basically the same flouride they put in our water? Seems that all fluoride compounds effect the thyroid per experiments in the '30's.

Anyone have better info/links on this relationship?

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm

With a name like that, there's little doubt of that being such a horribly biased site that I can't justify even wasting my time disproving their case. Without even looking, I can assume they're cherry picking data and presenting anecdotal evidence as scientific fact.

ETA: I couldn't stop myself. I found this on a science site:

The fact that a flourine atom is part of the fluoxetine molecule is a red herring. Fluoxetine has completely different properties from elemental flourine or flouride for that matter. Fluoxetine is a key that fits a lock resulting in increased serotonin levels. The effects of it rely on the shape of the molecule. The shape of the molecule relys on what atoms it is made from and how they are arranged. Flourine or flouride may have some psycotropic effects or even be detrimental to brain tissue(although I strongly doubt both), but those effects would have to rely on the shape of a flourine molecule (ie. Fl2) or the reactivity of flourine or flouride. The flourine atom in fluoxetine is not available to do what elemental flourine would do.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Let us try to see if what is claimed is possibly true. The first premise is that there is "an epidemic of mania, mayhem, and murder". We can begin with crime statistics. In January of this year, the Washington Post had an article on life expectancy- and points at what has been happening with the murder rate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-50-year-low/2012/01/11/gIQAo5tDrP_story.html

U.S. death rate from homicide drops to a near 50-year low

“We sort of expected those trends would continue, but what grabbed us here was the drop in homicide,” said Robert N. Anderson, chief of mortality statistics at the National Center for Health Statistics.

Homicide climbed into the top 15 causes of U.S. deaths in 1965. It placed tenth for three years in the early 1990s. In recent years, it has been hovering at 13 or 14. In 2010, it fell to 16.

Hmm. No massive murder waves- in fact, murder rate continues to decline- hitting a 50 year low. It adds that ant-social behavior has also been declining.

“We’re really not sure what’s driving this. That’s the million-dollar question,” Anderson said.

The steep drop in homicide in the 1990s — the District’s rate is now less than a third of what it was in 1991 — is usually attributed to crack cocaine’s waning popularity. Experts are less able to explain the decline since 2008, a period that tracks the economic downturn.

“There’s not enough knowledge out there for us to have an explanation that we can bank on. We’re left with speculation,” said Alfred Blumstein, a criminologist at Heinz College of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.

A wide array of theories has been offered about factors that might be contributing to the decline, he said, ranging from better policing to the possibility that a lowered rate of lead poisoning in city children has led to reduced antisocial behavior among young adults.

Now it is certainly possible that anti-depressant usage contributes to higher murder rates but for us to have a good corelation the usage should move with the murder rate. Since the murder rate is down we need to have the anti-depressant usage to also be going down. Is that happening? I guess not.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20111019/use-of-antidepressants-on-the-rise-in-the-us

Oct. 19, 2011 -- About 11% of Americans aged 12 or older take antidepressants, including many who have not seen a mental health professional in the past year, according to a new federal report.

The report by the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics also says that the rate of antidepressant use in the U.S. has increased nearly 400% since 1988.

Since the murder rate is moving in the OPPOSITE direction from anti-depressant usage there is no provable corelation.

What the article may be actually pointing out is that perhaps people likely to commit murder may also be on anti-depressants (they may be on the drugs because of a mental problem which also causes them to kill people) but even without the anti- depressants may still be likely to commit mayhem or murder. It is also It does not show that the consumption of the anti-depressants is the cause. It is also possible that for some people that being on anti- depressants may make them LESS likely to commit murder.

Not just murder down, but all violent crime:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

Steady Decline in Major Crime Baffles Experts

By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

Published: May 23, 2011

The number of violent crimes in the United States dropped significantly last year, to what appeared to be the lowest rate in nearly 40 years, a development that was considered puzzling partly because it ran counter to the prevailing expectation that crime would increase during a recession.

In all regions, the country appears to be safer. The odds of being murdered or robbed are now less than half of what they were in the early 1990s, when violent crime peaked in the United States. Small towns, especially, are seeing far fewer murders: In cities with populations under 10,000, the number plunged by more than 25 percent last year

Anti-depressant usage has doubled while violent crime has fallen by 50%.

 

[dannno]

I completely disagree. How on earth can you possibly prove if a medication caused a crazy person to act crazy, or whether they were simply acting crazy because they are psychotic!?

You'd have ALL doctors going out of business, because inevitably ALL doctors will treat a patient who experiences a negative outcome and has the potential to make money through lawsuits. So lawyers will get on board and take advantage.

The real problem is that the medical industry runs the FDA and has essentially made it illegal for anybody to advertise natural products, which are safer and more effective, as being effective cures or medications for these conditions.

No, lawsuits are not the answer. The answer is the free market. If a doctor is successfully treating patients with mental psychosis using plants and other inexpensive natural methods then insurance companies will see that they can provide a cost savings to their bottom line and direct their customers towards the more effective doctors by giving them a lower co-pay or only using those particular doctors.

The reason that isn't happening today has got to be at least 10 if not 100 fold.. but all of them have to do with the government controlling the insurance and medical industries with monopoly players acting to protect their industry and products.

I just had jury duty and have even further solidified my position on this.

So some old asian lady backed into a worker at a grocery store (surprise ) while he was organizing carts next to the cart coral. Now he wants a bunch of money for a chiropractor and for pain and suffering.

Fortunately I didn't get picked for the jury so I didn't get to see the evidence, but what if he had back pain from pushing around the carts or from something else, and then got into this accident and pretended the back pain was from getting hit by this lady? What if the lady caused all the back pain and suffering, shouldn't she be responsible for some speculated amount of financial loss that he experienced due to the accident? There is already so much room for fraud with regards to these types of injury lawsuits where there is an incident which can be positively, at least beyond a reasonable doubt, identified as the cause of the injuries. In our situation with doctors prescribing medicine, we can't even positively identify what caused the injury and whether the medication, which the effects of may vary, actually caused it.

The other big issue I have is that I don't want my doctor to be responsible for my outcome because that will prevent them from being completely honest and acting in his own long-term best interest to protect his reputation as a healer. Instead they end up following some standardized procedure which protects them in a court of law but might not be the best treatment. Also consider doctors today who get in trouble for prescribing pain killers to people who may be addicted. This also in many cases stops doctors from prescribing painkillers to people who actually need painkillers (even if cannabis is a safer/better option) because people who really need them are in a lot of pain and require a lot and may resemble people who are addicted and over-prescribed or are using them for purely or primarily for recreational purposes.

 

[pcosmar]

Who's MK Ultra?

Wow.
Just wow..

The wiki,,for quick reference,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

Project MKULTRA, or MK-ULTRA, was the code name for a covert CIA human experimentation program, run by the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence

Though it is not hard to find much more on the subject.
it involved experimentation in Mind Control. and involved major Psychiatric, Pharmaceutical and research organizations.

Social Engineering and Control are the purpose. It is the purpose of these drugs..

These psychotic murder sprees are not an anomaly,,
It is working as expected.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Wow.
Just wow..

The wiki,,for quick reference,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA


Though it is not hard to find much more on the subject.
it involved experimentation in Mind Control. and involved major Psychiatric, Pharmaceutical and research organizations.

Social Engineering and Control are the purpose. It is the purpose of these drugs..

These psychotic murder sprees are not an anomaly,,
It is working as expected.

Exactly.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Let us try to see if what is claimed is possibly true. The first premise is that there is "an epidemic of mania, mayhem, and murder". We can begin with crime statistics. In January of this year, the Washington Post had an article on life expectancy- and points at what has been happening with the murder rate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-50-year-low/2012/01/11/gIQAo5tDrP_story.html


Hmm. No massive murder waves- in fact, murder rate continues to decline- hitting a 50 year low. It adds that ant-social behavior has also been declining.


Now it is certainly possible that anti-depressant usage contributes to higher murder rates but for us to have a good corelation the usage should move with the murder rate. Since the murder rate is down we need to have the anti-depressant usage to also be going down. Is that happening? I guess not.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20111019/use-of-antidepressants-on-the-rise-in-the-us


Since the murder rate is moving in the OPPOSITE direction from anti-depressant usage there is no provable corelation.

What the article may be actually pointing out is that perhaps people likely to commit murder may also be on anti-depressants (they may be on the drugs because of a mental problem which also causes them to kill people) but even without the anti- depressants may still be likely to commit mayhem or murder. It is also It does not show that the consumption of the anti-depressants is the cause. It is also possible that for some people that being on anti- depressants may make them LESS likely to commit murder.

Not just murder down, but all violent crime:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html


Anti-depressant usage has doubled while violent crime has fallen by 50%.

Even if the crime rate was brought down to 0% by mass druggings, I still wouldn't support these chemical lobotomies that the government and the pharmaceutical companies are pushing on the public.

 

[Zippyjuan]

In addition to the rates for violent crime and murder hitting 40 and 50 year lows, the percent of all murders which involve multiple victims has remaind fairly steady which means that the multiple murder rate should also be down as a percent of the total population.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/multiple.cfm

The proportion of homicides involving multiple victims increased gradually during the last two decades from 3.1% of all homicides in 1976 to 4.4% in 2005.

 

[tttppp]

"Altering" the mind is not the same thing as "improving" it. Donnay was specifying that these drugs do "alter" your mind in the sense that they change it in some way.

I would agree that these drugs do "fuck" with your mind and body, but they do not improve it as advertised. The only real benefit psych drugs have is they sedate their patients. Patients which were violent in the past can be considered safer under medication because they are too tired to get out of bed, let alone kills someone. Problem is these drugs can have severe side effects, and when doctors just take guesses at what medications you should take, many times you get a horrible reaction. This is very common.

 

[tttppp]

Wow.
Just wow..

The wiki,,for quick reference,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA


Though it is not hard to find much more on the subject.
it involved experimentation in Mind Control. and involved major Psychiatric, Pharmaceutical and research organizations.

Social Engineering and Control are the purpose. It is the purpose of these drugs..

These psychotic murder sprees are not an anomaly,,
It is working as expected.

Can you explain this a little more? Are you saying that all the psych drugs today are based off of CIA experiments?

 

[tttppp]

Fair enough, but the "probably" part isn't provable. I could easily argue that there probably would have been more of these incidents if mentally ill people weren't getting their medications. I blame society's tendency to continually look to place blame on external sources, instead of focusing on individual responsibility.

Nobody is responsible for their own actions any more. It's the fault of big pharma, big government, corporate America, MK ULtra, chem trails, the Jooz...but nobody is ever just fucking insane.

Not that I actually look for objective (or even rational) discussion on the subject of anything on the forums, but the argument is clearly biased and one sided when people simply refuse to consider that there are indeed millions of people who are indeed helped by the same drugs and methods that are demonized here, without any legitimate studies to support their claims.

I just hope that the young libertarians reading these threads don't decide not to seek help for their personal demons out of a baseless paranoid fear proposed by the vocal outliers of society.

I can tell you for a fact that the vast majority of people on psych drugs are not helped. And of the ones who actually are, they could get better results from Chinese traditional medicine and not have any side effects like you would get from drugs.

 

[pcosmar]

Can you explain this a little more? Are you saying that all the psych drugs today are based off of CIA experiments?

Yes, I am saying that the Psychiatric industry, the Pharmaceutical industry and Government are in full partnership.
The FDA approves drugs based on this partnership.

NO ONE was ever charged with a crime for MK Ultra. Ever.
Those involved have continued to this day.

Listen to some of the victim testimony before congress.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o....,cf.osb&fp=7f11edaceb0ef551&biw=1188&bih=615

if you start following some of the rabbit trails,, be warned.
It is some dark and ugly shit.

It started with Operation Paperclip. (Well, Even before that really)
when Nazi Doctors and researchers were brought here and protected from prosecution.

 

[tttppp]

Yes, I am saying that the Psychiatric industry, the Pharmaceutical industry and Government are in full partnership.
The FDA approves drugs based on this partnership.

What does that have to do with the ability of a patient to sue a doctor who prescribed these drugs negligently?