Antidepressant Drugs Causing Epidemic of Mania, Mayhem and Murder

[PaulConventionWV]

I would be surprised if xanax had any effect on these people. Its a relatively safe drug (although there really is no such thing). Anti-depressants are another story. They can severely fuck up your liver and kidneys, can cause impotence and severe weight gain. They are not something you want to take. To top that off, they really are not that effective, and in many cases they are reported to have the exact opposite effect of what was intended.

The kicker is that it says this right on the bottle many times. Drugs used to treat mental disorders and depression have "suicidal thoughts" as a possible side effect. Who would have thought that something that can cause suicidal thoughts is used to treat depression?

Also, can someone explain to me why, if suicidal tendencies are a LISTED side effect, homicidal tendencies aren't also possible? Why is it so far-fetched to think that a type of medicine that is known to cause suicidal behavior might also cause them to direct that violent behavior toward others? It's not listed of course, but it seems absolutely childish to argue that it's okay when something causes suicide, but not okay when something causes homicide. Just imagine if one of the commercials for these drugs said, "Tell your doctor if you have thoughts of homicide."

 

[tttppp]

What I'm saying is that in your situation those who provide natural medicines could also be sued by people who are psychotic who have psychotic episodes while on natural substances.. If the doctor is selling the substances to the patients, then they are essentially "being paid" to give it out to the patient. But the psychotic reaction they have could even be from a reaction from an old prescription medication that was taken over a year prior, but the natural medication gets blamed because it is really impossible to trace the blame like that in a court of law.

My point is that the reason the FDA exists is to keep an un-level playing field against natural medicines, and I believe if you put these medications on a level playing field then you'd have natural medicines win out in most cases and you wouldn't have the issues we are having today.

It's sort of like Ron Paul's position on immigration - he believes that if we took away the govt. incentives for illegals to come here, then those who came here for the most part would be welcomed because they would be providing lower cost labor which would benefit everyone.

I've never had a negative reaction to herbal medicine from a competent provider. Drinking herbal tea can be unpleasant and sometime uncomfortable, but it always makes you better. There are never any side effects.

I don't think anyone should be automatically sued just because someone acted out on medication. But the doctor should have a better explanation for why he prescribed the medication than "oh I got paid to prescribe it" or "I was just guessing". The doctor should understand the patient's health problems, and should know how their medication will react with him. Without doing that they are committing malpractice.

A herbal medicine provider may be getting paid for the herbs, but their is an infinite number of combinations of herbs that they can give to patients. Herbal providers don't give out specific combinations of herbs because the herb manufacturers are paying them.

 

[tttppp]

The kicker is that it says this right on the bottle many times. Drugs used to treat mental disorders and depression have "suicidal thoughts" as a possible side effect. Who would have thought that something that can cause suicidal thoughts is used to treat depression?

Also, can someone explain to me why, if suicidal tendencies are a LISTED side effect, homicidal tendencies aren't also possible? Why is it so far-fetched to think that a type of medicine that is known to cause suicidal behavior might also cause them to direct that violent behavior toward others? It's not listed of course, but it seems absolutely childish to argue that it's okay when something causes suicide, but not okay when something causes homicide. Just imagine if one of the commercials for these drugs said, "Tell your doctor if you have thoughts of homicide."

I've tried these drugs before and I can tell you they can definitely lead to homicide. I obviously didn't kill anyone on these drugs, but the reaction I got from some of them was so horrible I can see why someone would. On some of these drugs, I couldn't even tolerate one dose. Imagine what these drugs can do to someone who's been on them weeks or months.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

My brother is bi-polar and takes several medications for it. Was he completely batshit insane and a violent individual before? Most definitely. Did the medicine make him better? Hell no. It made him worse and he ended up incarcerated.

Not everyone who takes a medication is going to flip out and kill someone though. Some people do actually need these drugs to function normally in society and without them would be flipping out and killing people (withdrawal has already been discussed in this thread which when coupled with the problems the have already makes for a really bad situation).

I think there are other ways. Nobody needs the drugs. If I thought that taking these crazy drugs and making yourself a zombie was the only way to live for what passes as a life in this society, then I wouldn't want to live much longer. Fortunately, through my episodes of depression and anxiety that I dealth with, I overcame them through positive mental stimuli and relaxation. You don't need drugs. There are natural medicines that are way more effective, and you can always coach yourself out of negative behavior. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's usually better than dealing with drugs like these. It may be easy to take these drugs, but they can get you in a lot of trouble that you never would have foreseen. Even if you take them as prescribed, the fact that you are taking them can contribute to weird behavior. If someone is on more than one drug, that can have very dangerous side effects. The side effects are even listed on the bottle, so they apply whether or not you are withdrawing from the medication. The medication itself can also have bad consequences, although withdrawal often increases the manifestation of these "side effects." It depends on how long they were taking them, as well, because if you take them long enough, it can make you lose contact with reality, and the cumulative effects of the years of altering your mind and increasing the dosage to achieve the same effects can cause you to snap eventually. For some it's relatively soon, for others it takes longer.

They should really put on the label: "Side effects include psychotic rage, murder and/or suicide."

 

[dannno]

I've never had a negative reaction to herbal medicine from a competent provider. Drinking herbal tea can be unpleasant and sometime uncomfortable, but it always makes you better. There are never any side effects.

I've never had any long-term negative reactions to herbal medications either, tho sometimes detoxing and such can cause negative short-term effects. Most natural medicines are pretty benign, other than their properties to help treat the condition they are intended for.

But the point isn't whether natural medicines cause negative reactions, though, the point is simply that negative reactions can be blamed on natural medications and you could have doctors end up being sued for no reason other than the patient and lawyers needs money.

What if a patient does their own research and finds out that a certain natural medication would benefit them, don't you think they should have the right to go purchase that medication without excessive hindrance? For example, I find out that plant X will cure my condition Y, condition Y being a condition that may be relatively difficult/expensive to diagnose on-sight. Maybe the symptoms occur sporadically and maybe it is expensive for doctors to detect. But I know I have the condition and I know what is going to cure it. If you setup a system where these types of lawsuits are occurring, then the only people who will sell me these substances will also charge me for a diagnosis.. If the diagnosis is expensive then it could substantially raise the cost of my treatment.

 

[tttppp]

I've never had any long-term negative reactions to herbal medications either, tho sometimes detoxing and such can cause negative short-term effects. Most natural medicines are pretty benign, other than their properties to help treat the condition they are intended for.

But the point isn't whether natural medicines cause negative reactions, though, the point is simply that negative reactions can be blamed on natural medications and you could have doctors end up being sued for no reason other than the patient and lawyers needs money.

What if a patient does their own research and finds out that a certain natural medication would benefit them, don't you think they should have the right to go purchase that medication without excessive hindrance? For example, I find out that plant X will cure my condition Y, condition Y being a condition that may be relatively difficult/expensive to diagnose on-sight. Maybe the symptoms occur sporadically and maybe it is expensive for doctors to detect. But I know I have the condition and I know what is going to cure it. If you setup a system where these types of lawsuits are occurring, then the only people who will sell me these substances will also charge me for a diagnosis.. If the diagnosis is expensive then it could substantially raise the cost of my treatment.

Diagnosis is not expensive and only take about 5 minutes. The herbologist I saw never even charged for an initial consultation. Its the medical doctors that lead people to believe that diagnosis is expensive. In reality, you should not be taking herbs without consulting an herbologist (unless you are one).

I really don't see why we shouldn't remove the barrier to entry for lawsuits. This will force a lot of incompetent practitioners our of business, and only the strong will survive. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

 

[dannno]

Diagnosis is not expensive and only take about 5 minutes. The herbologist I saw never even charged for an initial consultation. Its the medical doctors that lead people to believe that diagnosis is expensive. In reality, you should not be taking herbs without consulting an herbologist (unless you are one).

I really don't see why we shouldn't remove the barrier to entry for lawsuits. This will force a lot of incompetent practitioners our of business, and only the strong will survive. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

Well that (bold) is great for Chinese Herbal Medicine, it will help it to better compete in a truly free market by keeping expenses low. The medication itself is cheap, so why does Chinese herbal medicine need any more advantages to out-compete western medicine in a level playing field?

The problem is that I'm not convinced Chinese herbal medicine necessarily has ALL the solutions to EVERY ailment. Maybe they do, it wouldn't surprise me that much, but the fact is I should be able to be my own primary care physician. I should take responsibility over my own health care. If I give that responsibility out to someone else, then I should be responsible for the consequences. The only time a doctor should be responsible is if they signed a contract that they would be liable if something happened to me. Maybe some doctors would actually include that in their contracts to attract customers, a sort of 'guarantee' for your good health. But I don't want the herbologist on the corner getting sued because somebody bought an herb that has legitimate medicinal use and used it incorrectly then had an adverse reaction, allergic or otherwise, when the next person could walk in, buy the same medication, educate themselves on it's use and it could save their life.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't believe a drug causes "murder" as much as I believe guns "cause" murder...

A gun, sitting on the table, fully loaded, can not enter your bloodstream, disrupt the decision making processes in your brain and cause you to act in ways that you normally would not.

ETA - Unless someone wants to argue that it causes an out of control endorphin rush or something.

You've never seen an angry, out of control, drunk?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Using this reasoning nothing causing anything.

This.

Correlation does not necessarily equal causation.

But it can.

Everything in the universe has a cause and effect.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Americans' addiction to dangerous SSRI’s hits crisis levels

fixed. Land masses (countries) don't have thoughts or emotions.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

A gun, sitting on the table, fully loaded, can not enter your bloodstream, disrupt the decision making processes in your brain and cause you to act in ways that you normally would not.

Well said.

"Drugs have side effects, Mkay?"

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Not really. The majority of crime and fraud, in dollar amounts, is committed by the elite/wealthy.

Most of the crimes you are referring to (measurable community crime rates, personal property crimes, etc) are committed because those people are poor and desperate, not because they are psychotic.

And they under report the crime rates, among the rates of many other things, to make it appear things are better than they really are.

 

[tttppp]

Well that (bold) is great for Chinese Herbal Medicine, it will help it to better compete in a truly free market by keeping expenses low. The medication itself is cheap, so why does Chinese herbal medicine need any more advantages to out-compete western medicine in a level playing field?

The problem is that I'm not convinced Chinese herbal medicine necessarily has ALL the solutions to EVERY ailment. Maybe they do, it wouldn't surprise me that much, but the fact is I should be able to be my own primary care physician. I should take responsibility over my own health care. If I give that responsibility out to someone else, then I should be responsible for the consequences. The only time a doctor should be responsible is if they signed a contract that they would be liable if something happened to me. Maybe some doctors would actually include that in their contracts to attract customers, a sort of 'guarantee' for your good health. But I don't want the herbologist on the corner getting sued because somebody bought an herb that has legitimate medicinal use and used it incorrectly then had an adverse reaction, allergic or otherwise, when the next person could walk in, buy the same medication, educate themselves on it's use and it could save their life.

In America its hard for good Chinese traditional medicine practitioners to stand out because there are so many fakes out there, and most Americans just go to acupuncturists and herbologists for the experience, not necessarily to get something cured. If these fakes got exposed for what they are and got sued, that would open the door for the better ones to get more customers and make more money. More customers would then go to the better practitioners, thus more people benefit.

I think you bring up a good point. Doctors should sign a contract taking responsibility for the patient. Although, if that happened, the patient would be obligated to follow the doctors recommendations completely. They'd have to take the medication as prescribed, follow the diet recommended, etc. If the patient does all that and has problems, the doctor is obviously liable. However if the patient took too much of the medication against the doctors orders, then he has no claim. However, even if that did happen, it wouldn't cause the same damage as some of these drugs do.

Why would I want to take medication from a doctor if they are not willing to sign a contract like that?

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I think you would find the drug companies are contributing to defense of the doctors..

You do realize that no one was ever arrested nor charged for the crimes of MK Ultra. NO One.

THAT.

 

[Pericles]

My brother is bi-polar and takes several medications for it. Was he completely batshit insane and a violent individual before? Most definitely. Did the medicine make him better? Hell no. It made him worse and he ended up incarcerated.

Not everyone who takes a medication is going to flip out and kill someone though. Some people do actually need these drugs to function normally in society and without them would be flipping out and killing people (withdrawal has already been discussed in this thread which when coupled with the problems the have already makes for a really bad situation).

Sometimes they kill themselves. That won't show up as a crime stat either.

 

[phill4paul]

Sometimes they kill themselves. That won't show up as a crime stat either.

And sometimes the very 'cocktails' that they take do a job on them. It shows up as an 'overdose' or aggrevated on coroner reports though. Even though they took the 'script as issued.

 

[Anti Federalist]

And how many of these over prescribed poor bastards would have been just fine if they could have smoked a joint or two and chilled?

 

[phill4paul]

And how many of these over prescribed poor bastards would have been just fine if they could have smoked a joint or two and chilled?

 

[angelatc]

M
I don't really care one way of the other, but you might want to understand the fallacies in the narratives humans create around cause and effect.

Most people who get anti-depressants were already psychologically disturbed.

 

[angelatc]

And they under report the crime rates, among the rates of many other things, to make it appear things are better than they really are.

Whatever. All I know is that I am old enough to remember when crimes rates were higher, and there was more crime. There's no way to disprove the bizarre conspiracy theory stuff - "There's more crime but they're not telling us!" - but I'm not going to believe it, because from what I see, violent crimes are indeed trending down.

Of course, the Nancy Grace effect has all of the soccer Moms believing just the opposite.