Anti-Fracking Protests Planned; Fracking: Good or Bad?

[Carehn]

How far down do property rights extend?

Most laws depending on the state would say to the center of the earth. At least that is Oregon law.

 

[Carson]

Where else do you put thousands of pounds of noxious chemicals? Seems to me like underground, far beneath any drinkable water source is as good a place as any. Does anyone have any evidence to suggest that this stuff actually leaks hundreds of feet upward? How does that happen?

Isn't the whole concept of fracking to explode the bedrock fracturing it so these chemicals can dissipate and release the bound petroleum products?


Then you have a choir that is singing "♫ it can happen, it can happen, it can happen, it can happen♫"...


Give me a ♂ ♥ ♀ break.

 

[Pisces]

FrankRep perhaps you should stop sucking the trespassing dick of utility companies who benefit from a litany of Government privileges.

Utility companies do not drill oil and gas wells; they really have no involvement in fracking other than the fact that they buy natural gas to run their plants. Also, the oil companies that do drill wells aren't trespassers. They always have to get permission from the land owner before they can even set foot on private property. This permission is usually obtained by signing a lease that allows them access to the area they want to drill in. The lease usually contains provisions for compensating the lessor if the land is damaged in any way. Now if fracking chemicals contaminate a community's water or cause earthquakes that is a problem that affects parties other than the land owner and the oil company. Lawsuits or local regulation or some combination of the two is probably the best way to handle this problem.

I don't think that this is really a question of individual property rights being violated. Oil and gas drillers, unlike pipeline companies, do not have the ability to use eminent domain to get what they want. They have to actually negotiate with property owners and as I commented earlier, most land owners are more than willing to do that.

 

[Victor Grey]

Shouldn't cost much more than a well pump and a pressure tank. Well other than storage of course. A simple non-sparking industrial air pump in a largish reservoir tank with a pressure switch that cuts the pump in whenever pressure equals atmospheric or better. Another tank to let methane and oxygen separate, and somehow pump the methane into storage and let the air go. If it were practical (due to the illegality of storing unstunk methane) it probably wouldn't be that expensive at all I would think.

ETA - bear in mind that at pressures below atmospheric, the methane will boil out of almost any quantity of water almost instantly, leaving completely none behind.

Speaking just on a possibly practical note, (enjoyable reply to my post) to that as bolded,

Wouldn't that aspect be a near to perfect situation, if you were wanting to run a turbine generator?

If in fact this water with dissolved methane were somewhat reliable in content, might have to monkey with pressures in some way,
it seems in my mind at least concievable, if it's flammable you'd get the fuel and the steam, all in one.

Not sure of the specific mechanics of it all,; if you'd have to add additional water for peak generation,
or if there is indeed enough methane in there to fully evaporate it all sustainably in the long term to begin with.
Wonder if adding additional methane to the mixture could work the other way around it if that is what would be required.
This idea of inflammable methane in water as a solution, seems like the possible killing of two birds with one stone.
There's pressure that could result from that steam being created... there's too many aspects to simply sit and suppose upon on a forum.

Wonder what the right combination would be, if what I'm describing is within the realm of possibility.

I'm merely thinking aloud on the keyboard, really.

 

[presence]

Once the propaganda artists became involved on both sides of this it became nearly impossible to discover objective facts.

+rep

 

[presence]

The people living there are the ones who thought the risk was worth it, and this is what they get.

The people living there have been doing so for generations before fracking was even invented; these are rural farming communities... 150 year old dairy barns and the like.

The inherent risk of living in an area that might be drilled for oil is something that must be factored into your decision of where to live.

There was no such thing, fracking wasn't a technology, Marcellus shale wasn't on the table, when these people established their family farms through generations of labor.

-----------------

An anecdote on the safety of fracking:

A customer of mine asked me to change out the ceiling fan in their kitchen last week. It was blowing light bulbs weekly. I know the electrician that installed it last year, he "went to school", "was licensed", he was even "friends of their family"... charged them plenty, etc. So, I pull down the fan and open up the box. I counted 8 distinct NEC code violations in that ONE ceiling fan box... this man rewired half their house (the house was gutted down to the studs when he did) and charged them for "all new work". Town inspections even signed off on a new service entrance. Nice. I ran some new wire and put it all back together... Correctly. Put the same old fan back in the hole when I was done: the lights work, the fan doesn't wobble, the fan switch works, the light switch works, no weird smells... All the important things... ground not bound to neutral in the box; power not coming to the fan on 16g 1920's knob and tube, more than two 1 1/4 drywall screws holding the oversized fan to the ceiling, 3/8 nm clamps where wires enter the box, a not-rusted-to-shit non-fan-support box.... Where is the electrician who originally installed it now?

He got a $80K, no resume, "knows somebody job" as a... PA gas pipeline inspector. The most he knew about gas before the job was grilling burgers on propane. Now he has a dually company truck with an inspector emblem on the door.

Just shut up and say everything you see checks out. Here's a bonus.

You're perfect for the job.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Isn't the whole concept of fracking to explode the bedrock fracturing it so these chemicals can dissipate and release the bound petroleum products?


Then you have a choir that is singing "♫ it can happen, it can happen, it can happen, it can happen♫"...


Give me a ♂ ♥ ♀ break.

Uh, wat?

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

but I was just doing IT work and design, if I didn't so it, someone else would have.

It is that kind of thinking and rationalization that is f*cking this planet up.

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

Don't forget all the bad publicity that goes along with property damage. Screw up a few times and they're out of business.

If that were the case they would have been out of business a loooong time ago. Do you even know how many personal wells have been ruined by fracking??? Bad publicity only happens if the media covers it; and we all know how the media works in this country

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

Where else do you put thousands of pounds of noxious chemicals? Seems to me like underground, far beneath any drinkable water source is as good a place as any. Does anyone have any evidence to suggest that this stuff actually leaks hundreds of feet upward? How does that happen?

How about quit producing substances that will lead to the ultimate destruction of the entire planet's ecosystem? But no, that makes too much sense

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

 

[steph3n]

It is that kind of thinking and rationalization that is f*cking this planet up.

I've learned a lot since that time my friend, I wasn't an anarchist then at all

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

I've learned a lot since that time my friend, I wasn't an anarchist then at all

No worries, I used to be a warmongering Neo-Con...glad we both have changed our way of thinking!

 

[PaulConventionWV]

How about quit producing substances that will lead to the ultimate destruction of the entire planet's ecosystem? But no, that makes too much sense

What exactly is the oil industry "producing" that isn't already there?

Also, please explain to me, in detail, how this will lead to the "destruction of the entire planet's ecosystem". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is absolutely no way you can know what will happen to the ENTIRE PLANET'S ECOSYSTEM.

 

[wrestlingwes_8]

What exactly is the oil industry "producing" that isn't already there?

Also, please explain to me, in detail, how this will lead to the "destruction of the entire planet's ecosystem". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is absolutely no way you can know what will happen to the ENTIRE PLANET'S ECOSYSTEM.

Are you seriously this dumb?? Go find me some plastic out in the forest that nature produced. Jesus, do you hear yourself?? Do you even understand that the oil companies have synthesized thousand upon thousands of toxic chemicals that this planet has never seen before?? Do you even know about the pollution that is increasing at an extraordinary rate? Do you know in the middle of the Pacific Ocean there is a floating mass of plastic as big as the state of Texas? And what you think none of this pollution is eventually going to have an effect on the ecosystems of this world?? Christ, go back to f*cking elementary school..

 

[jbauer]

It seems like fracking in rural areas that have potential is a no brainer. I don't think fracking is "good or bad" its more just weighing risk and reward. Clearly there are potential risks.

Wait....

Do you live in one of those rural areas? Regardless of your thoughts on the issue you can't be ok with it for some and not ok with it for others regardless of where they live. Property rights don't stop at the city limits signs.

 

[BenIsForRon]

Regulations won't solve a thing. The inherent risk of living in an area that might be drilled for oil is something that must be factored into your decision of where to live. If you can't afford someplace better, then that's what you get. People pay for what they can afford, and if they can't afford something better, then they weigh the risks. If they don't take enough care to weigh the risks, there are always consequences. Nobody is strictly limited to drilling zones for choices. There are lots of cheap homes all over the place.

The coal industry has completely brainwashed you. I pray for your state if most of your neighbors share your viewpoint.