Announcing: Rick Williams For US Senate In California

[truthsaga]

So it should become a 20 page mess because you can't support him?

Calm down, we are discussing an issue on immigration.

 

[Rick Williams]

I appreciate the comments about immigration issues. Certainly something I'll be dealing with in the campaign-- so getting some views from RP supporters is helpful. I continue to believe that illegal immigration is something that must be stopped and (over time) reversed if we are to have a nation that genuinely operates by rule of law, not rule of man. The presence of illegal immigrants in our country reflects a denigration of rule of law; as a lawyer, that's not something I can support.

 

[bluesc]

Why not?

Because if others have questions, they will be drowned out by your noise.

The grassroots forum is so we can exchange ideas and find ways to rally support around Ron Paul and Ron Paul supporting candidates, is it not? If the mods want to split this discussion and put it in Hot Topics or the Philosophy subforums while moving the initial thread into the California subforum, so be it.

If you have decided that you're not going to support this candidate based on his views on immigration, why are you still trying to debate it?

My post was mostly a knock at the mods anyway, since if this was a Thomas Massie thread and a debate was started over his foreign policy views (or lack of, apparently), that shit would be shut down immediately. Apparently in threads for other candidates (you know, for ones who have the balls to post here and not avoid it, unlike others) we have to self moderate.

 

[bluesc]

but everyone assumes just because someone say's they are a RP Republican we need to give blind support or be banned?

No one said that.

Frankly, I'm sick of the blind support for other candidates who call themselves "one of our own forum members" even though he avoids posting here to keep a distance, and tries to distance himself from being a Ron Paul supporter while his surrogates here claim he is a strong supporter of liberty.

The OP here isn't running away from the forums unlike others, which immediately makes him a more attractive candidate to me.

 

[doctorfunk]

I think that there needs to be a quick path to citizenship for those already here, but I think after a short grace period that the law needs to be upheld. Not by caravans of police or ICE officers though. If you take away government benefits and stricter laws on work eligibility, I think you would drive out most that choose not to become citizens.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

No amnesty, don't reward lawbreakers, rule of law. I can support that platform.

A nation without borders is no nation at all.

It just doesn’t make sense to fight terrorists abroad while leaving our front door unlocked.

Unfortunately, for far too long, neither major political party has had the courage to do what is necessary to tackle the problem.

Instead, we’re presented with so-called “solutions” that involve amnesty proposals or further restricting Americans’ civil liberties through programs like REAL ID.

Ron Paul opposes both of these schemes and believes they will only make illegal immigration and the problems associated with it worse.* He has been proud to see states exercising their Tenth Amendment rights and protecting their citizens by refusing to comply with the unconstitutional REAL ID law.

While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt.** This must not be tolerated any longer.

Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.

Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great assets.

COMMON SENSE REFORMS
If elected President, Ron Paul will work to implement the following common sense reforms:

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration.* As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.

As long as our borders remain wide open, the security and safety of the American people are at stake.

As President, Ron Paul will address immigration by fighting for effective solutions that protect our nation, uphold the rule of law, and respect every American citizen’s civil liberties.

 

[singe22]

Who cares if it is a 20 page thread. Feeding and I both live in CA and I have first hand experience on the immigration issue. We are just trying to get a clearer picture of Williams position, but everyone assumes just because someone say's they are a RP Republican we need to give blind support or be banned?

Your tired of the law being ignored? I am tired of people ignoring what causes the problem and the economic arguments. You don't want troops in Iran, but your tired of international law being ignored as well?

I live in California also. But try this Argument to someone who lives in the southern parts of the states that share the border with Mexico. What you see and deal with in San Jose is nothing compared to what goes on in those places.

See this is the problem, your trying to shift this into saying that Mr. Williams is blaming a bad economy on illegal immigration. From what i seen from his website is he writes about a short paragraph on various issues. Then then you both start posting how he wants to support a Army of Federal officers kicking down doors looking for illegals, and mass survaliance equipment to monitor for illegals. Which is why i keep asking quote or show me a link or a video which shows he said this.

There are probably thousands of people who are waiting in line and doing things the proper way no matter how screwed up it is to come here legally. Nobody should get a free pass just because. They started their stay here breaking the law and thats how it should be treated. As a American you cannot go to other civilized countries and just start there withought properly attaining a citizenship status. They will deport you.

Its like what Ron Paul says, why should future generations of Americans suffer or be bound to the promises that past generations made.

 

[truthsaga]

Because if others have questions, they will be drowned out by your noise.



If you have decided that you're not going to support this candidate based on his views on immigration, why are you still trying to debate it?

My post was mostly a knock at the mods anyway, since if this was a Thomas Massie thread and a debate was started over his foreign policy views (or lack of, apparently), that shit would be shut down immediately. Apparently in threads for other candidates (you know, for ones who have the balls to post here and not avoid it, unlike others) we have to self moderate.

There is no noise.. I dropped Mr. Williams an e-mail with my support and offered discounts for lodging and meeting spaces if he needs them while he is traveling the state. We are discussing a legitimate concern we have with policy coming from the view point of grabbing the independent and Latino votes. What I see from the illegal immigration issue is a mis-understaning of the economic argument and an opportunity to reverse the problem in a positive manner. Social Security and other welfare programs are all the laws, but we offer a good solution of phasing it out and not just cutting people off at the knees. When applied to the illegal immigration issue I see cutting all benefits need to be done immediately, but allow working non-violent individuals to continue living their lives. It was these policies that encouraged it and we should offer the economic fix immediately(cutting all benefits to illegals), but we can take a more moral approach to handling people who are part of our communities. It is the policy of everybody get out and start at the back of the line (no matter how well intended) makes us come off as not liking dark people. We are not sacrificing our principles for dealing morally and logically with a problem we were giving from decades of bad policy. I feel we will win more allies, support, and elections for the cause of liberty by not sacrificing what we believe in, but when it comes to domestic issues like immigration offer the economic fix that infuriates many Americans, but give working non-violent individuals to stay and not be forced out by the same system that encouraged them to come in the first place.

If the economic policies is what encouraged them to come, reversing the economic policies will end the incentives and level out the labor levels. At the end of the day, I would be happy to work for Rick Williams, but this is something I and other Californians feel we can win the argument for a moral change in immigration policy while winning crossover support in the cause of liberty.

Or... we could just take the misdemeanor charge for smacking someone to get them papers..

 

[truthsaga]

I live in California also. But try this Argument to someone who lives in the southern parts of the states that share the border with Mexico. What you see and deal with in San Jose is nothing compared to what goes on in those places.

See this is the problem, your trying to shift this into saying that Mr. Williams is blaming a bad economy on illegal immigration. From what i seen from his website is he writes about a short paragraph on various issues. Then then you both start posting how he wants to support a Army of Federal officers kicking down doors looking for illegals, and mass survaliance equipment to monitor for illegals. Which is why i keep asking quote or show me a link or a video which shows he said this.

There are probably thousands of people who are waiting in line and doing things the proper way no matter how screwed up it is to come here legally. Nobody should get a free pass just because. They started their stay here breaking the law and thats how it should be treated. As a American you cannot go to other civilized countries and just start there withought properly attaining a citizenship status. They will deport you.

Its like what Ron Paul says, why should future generations of Americans suffer or be bound to the promises that past generations made.

Our immigration process is difficult and those connected with major tech companies get free passes to the front of line, plus the with the sanctuary status, free healthcare, education, welfare programs, and student loan legislation encourages more illegal immigration. We are looking at what our government will use legislation like this for and see it as a threat to us when implementing such a plan. The e-verify and other employment verification systems are a joke and everyone here knows how to get around it. Plus, the employers should not be giving the task of policing the labor force. If you get rid of the economic incentives you immediately curve the illegal immigration process and would force others to find employment or return home.

 

[singe22]

So you want to spout about having a "moral" stance on things and basically want to starve them out? I would rather have a agency available which is already on the books ICE/Border Patrol that can at least help in safely getting people back to their country by just enforcing the law when someone comes up on the radar.

Dont get me wrong i'm all for turning off the incentives. But to not have the resources available on the border and to investigate cases not just in border states is wrong.

So as a legal American Citizen how is this a threat to you? IMO it seems its a threat because of the "nice" illegals you know and would be sad to see leave.

 

[truthsaga]

Giving more power to the police to enter houses and search private information seems a likely power giving to remove "people" or "illegals," that could be used for other purposes other then the purging.

 

[singe22]

Oh i see , your one of those type of Ron Paul supporters...enough said.

 

[twomp]

this is something I and other Californians feel we can win the argument for a moral change in immigration policy while winning crossover support in the cause of liberty.

Speak for yourself, I'm from California and I don't agree with you at all. I live in Morgan Hill (15 min from San Jose). Stay strong Mr. Williams and if Diane Feinstein gets re-elected because of folks like this then we just have to deal with the consequences. Don't bend!

 

[truthsaga]

Speak for yourself, I'm from California and I don't agree with you at all. I live in Morgan Hill (15 min from San Jose). Stay strong Mr. Williams and if Diane Feinstein gets re-elected because of folks like this then we just have to deal with the consequences. Don't bend!

Folks like what? That have a decent debate on things they believe in? I believe the good Dr. leans more to our position on some of these issues.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Personally I would deport criminal illegals immediately. Non-violent one's would be deported after I ended the drug war so they wouldn't go back to that situation in Mexico. However I favor vibrant legal immigration.

 

[Christopher David]

I am excited to run my U.S. House campaign parallel to Rick's Senate campaign.

Rick and I are building a slate of liberty candidates here for local and federal offices, with our grand rollout in a few weeks.

In the meantime, read about all the awesome stuff we have going on in California in my big strategy thread I just posted, "Grand Strategy: How Ron Paul Can (Still) Win the Nomination".

Exciting times!

 

[Brian4Liberty]

California Bump.

 

[LibertyEagle]

You can't move away from it until you understand what causes it. You have one law saying no to illegal immigration, but on the other hand you have other laws and incentives encouraging it. We can apply the rule of law to Social Security and just end it, but many of us champion the phasing out of social security while taking care of those who have become dependent. I understand these are U.S citizens, but if it is government incentives and laws that encouraged the problem why can't we end all of the incentives, remove violent criminals, secure our border, and let the market for labor level out. If there is no work, no handouts, and no ability to sustain themselves here they will return to Mexico and others will have no incentive to come across. We need to get our house in order, but the money saved from these support programs will save money and avoid having National Guard Units patrolling our streets and invading our property in the search for "illegals."

As a long-time RP supporter, I'm sure he knows that. But, we cannot just ignore the illegal alien invasion of our country until all the handouts are stopped. Not if we want any chance of turning everything around.

 

[BrooklynZoo]

As a longtime lawyer, Mr. Williams should be aware of how often the police abuse the law and the privileges provided them as law enforcement officers. Providing cops with greater police powers inevitably leads to tyranny. What starts as a well-intentioned idea to send illegal immigrants home will lead to major increases in violent incidents and place a great social and financial strain on the system. This will then be used to justify further crackdowns and the escalation of force. It also allows statists to justify a national ID card, something no liberty-minded person should want. As Dr. Paul has stated, those walls used to keep others out can also be used to keep us in. Yes, we should secure our borders and immediately deport violent criminals to their countries of origin. However, it has been shown that a poor economy here greatly decreases illicit border crossings. This means that the desire to come here is based primarily on financial incentives, which can be eliminated by ending the free ride of social programs provided for those not here legally. I won't use the silly argument that these people need to pay their taxes, since the income tax should be eliminated and illegals are already paying sales taxes and other fees. However, they are gaming the system as it is, costing those who are paying their way billions of dollars and this should be stopped. That's where the primary focus should be, not mass deportation, which coincidentally would be prohibitively expensive as well as a gateway to tyranny here. Please consider these arguments.

 

[Nathan Hale]

Thank you all for announcing your candidacy. We should take this discussion to the "2012 Candidates" section of these forums so that we can properly organize to support your campaigns. Keeping the discussion here will cause it to get lost in the "Grassroots Central" soup. I know Grassroots Central is where the best traffic is, but these discussions need to take place in the appropriate section where the lower traffic HELPS us discuss your campaigns and plan for things like money bombs, activist time, etc because there is less topic clutter and less refresh demotions.