And down come the monuments to the Confederacy....

[Anti Federalist]

Take down 'racist' Theodore Roosevelt statue, activists tell New York museum

Georgia Civil War Museum Shuts Down Rather Than Surrender Its Confederate Flags
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...s-down-rather-surrender-its-confederate-flags

Sort of shoots a hole in all that "take it off public property and put it in a museum" talk, doesn't it?

And everybody acts shocked and indignant when blowback occurs.

 

[acptulsa]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ore-roosevelt-statue-protest?CMP=share_btn_tw

I'll make you a deal. You can take down all the racist and imperialist Teddy Roosevelt statues you want, so long as you take down a racist and socialist Woody Wilson statue for each one.

In fact, we might throw a money bomb and replace them all with Calvin Coolidge statues. He wasn't a racist.

 

[euphemia]

In the meantime statues of one of the worst racists in history are all over the place. Can't wait to see what happens when pro-abortion activists and racists go toe to toe over statues of Margaret Sanger.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'll make you a deal. You can take down all the racist and imperialist Teddy Roosevelt statues you want, so long as you take down a racist and socialist Woody Wilson statue for each one.

A progressive democrat.

In fact, we might throw a money bomb and replace them all with Calvin Coolidge statues. He wasn't a racist.

A limited government constitutional republican.

 

[acptulsa]

A progressive democrat.



A limited government constitutional republican.

Yeah, I know. Everyone will be against it. Especially the press.

But with God as my witness, the man wasn't racist!

 

[angelatc]

Sort of shoots a hole in all that "take it off public property and put it in a museum" talk, doesn't it?

Most museums seem to take tax dollars anyway...

 

[enhanced_deficit]

If kept on current course, this will lead to more chaos. Saner heads should prevail soon.

TRUMP DEFIANT!
HATE ON BOTH SIDES

[SIZE=+7] [/SIZE]

SHOWDOWN: NC SHERIFF PURSUES FELONIES FOR MONUMENT TOPPLING...

'No one getting away'...

Lincoln Memorial Vandalized...


Protesters could be charged for bringing down Durham, N.C., Confederate statue
18 mins ago - Woman arrested for bringing down Durham, N.C., Confederate statue ... renamed from Lee Park — was the site of a similar protest in May.
Takilya Thompson used a ladder to scale the podium, climb the statue, and help pull it down.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3413284

Social media connects Ohio to Charlottesville attack

Posted by FOX19 Digital Media Staff

FOX19 - People who attended the protests in Charlottesville over the weekend are being called out on social media.
Commenters are attempting to identify the participants and, in one case, apparently recognized a former Mason High School student among the violence.
http://www.wtol.com/story/36132730/social-media-connects-ohio-to-charlottesville-attack



Statue of Martin Luther King on MLK Bridge vandalized

TOLEDO, OH (WTOL) - Just one day after the holiday to celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the statue of the late civil rights leader that sits on the bridge that bears his name over the Maumee River was vandalized.
http://www.wtol.com/story/11846562/statue-of-martin-luther-king-on-mlk-bridge-vandalized

 

[AuH20]

 

[Blueskies]

Libertarian support for The Confederacy really bothers me. It was an evil police state; one of the most anti-liberty governments of all time. It's easy to criticize Lincoln and many things the Union did, but you can not be pro-liberty and also support the confederacy.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Libertarian support for The Confederacy really bothers me. It was an evil police state; one of the most anti-liberty governments of all time. It's easy to criticize Lincoln and many things the Union did, but you can not be pro-liberty and also support the confederacy.

It was better than the union, in the context of history they were the better side and have been insufferably defamed.

 

[Blueskies]

It was better than the union, in the context of history they were the better side and have been insufferably defamed.

In what way?

Sure, the Civil War was a horrific event. Millions of dollars were wasted; hundreds of thousands of Americans died.

But the Confederacy was a government literally devoted to keeping almost 40% of its people in bondage. No rights. Rape, torture, murder, mating like animals, the breaking up of families -- all permitted. People born into bondage and sold like cattle. It's sad that I even have to point this out. In many ways, the confederacy was worse than Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin.

If you make a list of things Libertarians should be opposed to, slavery is at the top, no question. Worse than war. Worse than the end of private property. Feel free to rightly criticize the union and its policies, but if you support the confederacy, realize that you are the worst kind of statist.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

In what way?

Sure, the Civil War was a horrific event. Millions of dollars were wasted; hundreds of thousands of Americans died.

But the Confederacy was a government literally devoted to keeping almost 40% of its people in bondage. No rights. Rape, torture, murder, mating like animals, the breaking up of families -- all permitted. People born into bondage and sold like cattle. It's sad that I even have to point this out. In many ways, the confederacy was worse than Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin.

If you make a list of things Libertarians should be opposed to, slavery is at the top, no question. Worse than war. Worse than the end of private property. Feel free to rightly criticize the union and its policies, but if you support the confederacy, realize that you are the worst kind of statist.

Judging by this, I'm guessing you've never actually studied Stalin's reign in any significant detail. amirite?

 

[Swordsmyth]

In what way?

Sure, the Civil War was a horrific event. Millions of dollars were wasted; hundreds of thousands of Americans died.

But the Confederacy was a government literally devoted to keeping almost 40% of its people in bondage. No rights. Rape, torture, murder, mating like animals, the breaking up of families -- all permitted. People born into bondage and sold like cattle. It's sad that I even have to point this out. In many ways, the confederacy was worse than Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin.

If you make a list of things Libertarians should be opposed to, slavery is at the top, no question. Worse than war. Worse than the end of private property. Feel free to rightly criticize the union and its policies, but if you support the confederacy, realize that you are the worst kind of statist.

Slavery was wrong but the south was on the way to getting rid of it, meanwhile Yankees were dedicated statists who had already discarded the constitution and sought to destroy the rights of all men.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Judging by this, I'm guessing you've never actually studied Stalin's reign in any significant detail. amirite?

Or the history of the civil war period.

 

[nikcers]

Libertarian support for The Confederacy really bothers me. It was an evil police state; one of the most anti-liberty governments of all time. It's easy to criticize Lincoln and many things the Union did, but you can not be pro-liberty and also support the confederacy.

I think that what the government told you about history is a lie, and that its really easy to condemn the opinions of people by calling them racist. It's even easier nowadays in conservative circles to discredit someone completely by implying that they are a reverse racist.

It's such a winning move they are still doing it. They haven't brought down the tower of babel, we just have lost sight of the prize because the government has co-opted enough people into doing their bidding because they bribe them with bread and political theater.

That being said -I think people remember the good more often then the bad - and people remember things emotionally . The Misinformation-Stream-Media wants us to think that (evil)speech isn't free, liberty is at stake here, this isn't about the confederacy or hate.

 

[Blueskies]

I said "in many ways" not in all ways.

In many ways, perhaps most ways, Stalin and Hitler were worse than the confederacy. The confederacy didn't round up and exterminate millions of people, for example, or wage wars of conquest. It didn't engage in purges. It wasn't obsessed with world domination. It just wanted to preserve its evil ways.

But neither Stalin nor the Nazis participated in a systemic enslavement of almost half their population for the benefit of the aristocracy. (To be fair, you could argue that under Stalin, Soviet citizens were slaves to the state, and in some sense they were, but to a much more limited extent than American slaves.) They didn't make Germans or Russians have sex with each other to increase their own wealth. They didn't trade members of German or Russian families among each other. The SS and the NKVD didn't engage in systemic rape of German and Soviet women. etc.

Obviously, I'm not trying to lessen the evils of Nazism or Stalinism here. Only to suggest that the confederacy was approaching that level of evil, and ought to be treated as such, particularly among those who claim to support liberty.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I said "in many ways" not in all ways.

In many ways, perhaps most ways, Stalin and Hitler were worse than the confederacy. The confederacy didn't round up and exterminate millions of people, for example, or wage wars of conquest. It didn't engage in purges. It wasn't obsessed with world domination. It just wanted to preserve its evil ways.

But neither Stalin nor the Nazis participated in a systemic enslavement of almost half their population for the benefit of the aristocracy. (To be fair, you could argue that under Stalin, Soviet citizens were slaves to the state, and in some sense they were, but to a much more limited extent than American slaves.) They didn't make Germans or Russians have sex with each other to increase their own wealth. They didn't trade members of German or Russian families among each other. The SS and the NKVD didn't engage in systemic rape of German and Soviet women. etc.

Obviously, I'm not trying to lessen the evils of Nazism or Stalinism here. Only to suggest that the confederacy was approaching that level of evil, and ought to be treated as such, particularly among those who claim to support liberty.

You can't be serious. Satire?

 

[Unknownuser]

It's been a long time since I've signed in. Just wanted to say I miss 2008 and the liberty movement.

 

[Blueskies]

You can't be serious. Satire?

Please tell me how a government whose existence was devoted to keeping almost half its population in total slavery from cradle to grave was in way compatible with the tenants of liberty.

You'll fight against an income tax because you don't want the state to take a portion of your income, but you support the right of a person to own another human being? GTFO.

 

[nikcers]

(To be fair, you could argue that under Stalin, Soviet citizens were slaves to the state, and in some sense they were, but to a much more limited extent than American slaves..

You can't argue moral platitudes like slavery being bad, then say that limited slavery is less bad. I think the term for what you are doing here is splitting hairs. You should decide for yourself fully, what you think slavery means, better yet, what you think liberty means. Then you can criticize people who want to celebrate the America culture. No one is arguing that we should bring back slavery, in fact lots of those "confederacy" defenders think that everyone has a different american experience, and even the one the government provides us with isn't fair sometimes. I don't think the black people in jail for nonviolent crimes feel very free right now.