Anarchy Means Only No Rule, No Rulers; In Other Words -- Freedom

Anarchy makes no qualifications as to strength or scope of government.

If the odd man out, as umpire, is enforcing the rules, he is, by definition, a form of government.

If agreed upon that is consensual and fine. But if I or you or she or he chooses not to participate or play, taxes are not forcefully collected and that person may freely walk away. They are also free to engage in another consensual agreement, or not.
 
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In any human polity - libertarian or otherwise - there will always be rules of some kind, and so also of course the application of those rules. [1]

Thus, there will always be appliers of those rules (i.e., "rulers") - whether they be called "princes" or "presidents" or "CEOs of private security firms" or what-have-you. Even under a voluntaryist polity, there will necessarily be systems and networks of collectively cooperative deference that will result in a hierarchy of such "rulers" [2]. (That they may not be explicitly identified or thought of as "rulers" is a matter of semantics and narrative framing.)

Can't argue the fact, just simply stating that it's a pipe dream until the day comes when every single person accepts and lives by the NAP.

I hope that day comes sometime.

Sadly, that day will never come.

At an absolute minimum, there will always be at least some number of sociopathic types who have no compunctions when it comes to violating the rules (whatever the rules might be, including the NAP). And even beyond those, there will always be non-sociopaths who will nevertheless support (or at least not oppose) aggression - because [reasons (e.g., "it's for the children")].

Fortunately, the achievement and maintenance of a libertarian polity does not require that "every single person accepts and lives by the NAP". Indeed, it does not even require that a majority does so - or even a plurality. for that matter. It only requires that enough people do so (however much that might be [3]). More specifically, it requires that enough of the right people in the right positions - enough of the aforementioned "appliers of rules", in other words - do so. Under those circumstances, the question of whether Joe Rando is a believer in the NAP or not becomes irrelevant, or at most secondary.



[1] In fact, it is the nature and substance of those rules which determine whether (and to what extent) a given polity can be deemed to be "libertarian or otherwise" in the first place.

[2] To invoke an analogy used earlier in this thread, even in a voluntaryist game of "pick up" baseball, the umpire (i.e., "ruler") must necessarily be deferred to by all the players if the game is to occur or continue - even when (or rather, especially when) some of them think his strike zone is too big or too small.

[3] Ante facto, there is no way of knowing what this quantity is, and it will surely vary widely according to time, place, and other contingent factors.
 
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Anarchy makes no qualifications as to strength or scope of government.

If the odd man out, as umpire, is enforcing the rules, he is, by definition, a form of government.


Look, brother, I'm not trying to be a facetious asshole here, but I'm sick atm, tired, and I've grown pretty weary over the years of having to engage in these purely semantic arguments that don't really accomplish anything. So, let me know when that umpire starts tazing and beating the shit out of people, kidnapping them, hauling th`em away and throwing them in cages and ultimately murdering them because thay didn't follow the rules of the game. THEN we can maybe start calling him a "government."
 
Can't be done. Go to a pot luck supper at the neighborhood church and agree to help someome load the dishwasher, and you've created a de facto Government, signed the dreaded Social Contract, and committed yourself and a thousand generations of your progeny to their rule.

I have never claimed to be an anarchist. I have been "accused" of such..

I have one King,,since 1980 in my case.. I am not ruled by any..and I would think 8 years on an alias would have made that clear..

I jumped through the govt hoops necessary..and got "Legally Married",,for dealing with realities of this Government.

I avoid them as much as possible,,and coexist when necessary.. and my King has blessed my path.

I know where Worldly Government comes from,,the error of Nimrod continues.
 
I have never claimed to be an anarchist. I have been "accused" of such..

I have one King,,since 1980 in my case.. I am not ruled by any..and I would think 8 years on an alias would have made that clear..

I jumped through the govt hoops necessary..and got "Legally Married",,for dealing with realities of this Government.

I avoid them as much as possible,,and coexist when necessary.. and my King has blessed my path.

I know where Worldly Government comes from,,the error of Nimrod continues.


The [bolded] doesn't make sense... care to elaborate?

Or are you just a fraidy cat to come out of the closet?
 
The [bolded] doesn't make sense... care to elaborate?

Or are you just a fraidy cat to come out of the closet?

I learned my freedom while locked in a Cage..
Living under an Authoritarian Structure..

Walked the Main Yard as a Free Man. within the walls.

I do the same still. and it is sad seeing Main Street looking like the Main Yard.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

I will be stolen from, before I ever steal again. Repentant Thief.
 
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I learned my freedom while locked in a Cage..
Living under an Authoritarian Structure..

Walked the Main Yard as a Free Man. within the walls.

I do the same still. and it is sad seeing Main Street looking like the Main Yard.

But you still "vote"... for rulers to rule over you... Right?
 
But you still "vote"... for rulers to rule over you... Right?

NO.. I do vote for Representatives,, but few represent MY interests.. Ron Paul Represented Me..

I Oppose Rulers..

This was never meant to be an Authoritarian society.
 
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Look, brother, I'm not trying to be a facetious asshole here, but I'm sick atm, tired, and I've grown pretty weary over the years of having to engage in these purely semantic arguments that don't really accomplish anything. So, let me know when that umpire starts tazing and beating the shit out of people, kidnapping them, hauling th`em away and throwing them in cages and ultimately murdering them because thay didn't follow the rules of the game. THEN we can maybe start calling him a "government."

And that's just what this is...fun maybe, but not really productive in the here and now of the tyranny we find ourselves in.

Ultimately I'm on your side, but in the same way I am "on the side" of intergalactic space travel at speeds many times the speed of light.

A fun argument can be had, hashing out what may be possible, practical or pragmatic about the subject.

But does absolutely no good when there is a river that needs crossing right in front of us.
 
But does absolutely no good when there is a river that needs crossing right in front of us.

It's this fucking soft tyranny. Enough tyranny to make you feel like a miserable prick, but not enough tyranny to actually to do something about it.

They got this shit down to a fuckin' science.

We're all house nigggers, is what we are.
 
It's this fucking soft tyranny. Enough tyranny to make you feel like a miserable prick, but not enough tyranny to actually to do something about it.

They got this shit down to a fuckin' science.

We're all house nigggers, is what we are.

And there you have it.

No more complicated than that.
 
I really wish leftists who say anarchy is a bad thing actually take the time to read the definiton.
 
Anarchy simply means without rule or without rulers;

There's no such thing. Force exists.

Name one place on earth where people are not controlled by force in some way.

The only solution is to try to make the rulers better. In my opinion anarchists come off as whiney. They don't have any actual workable specific solutions.

I think the biggest flaw is the way we elect rulers. There needs to be some sort of restrictions on who gets to vote. It needs to be some version of only allowing net taxpayers to vote. I think mobocracy is the driving force for every country that elects their rulers. That's why we have a communist progressive tax system. That's why business owners don't get equal protection under the law. It's why we're bankrupt.
 
There's no such thing. Force exists.

Name one place on earth where people are not controlled by force in some way.

I agree. The history of humankind agrees. As long as there are humans on this planet, some of them will always want to rule the others. It is never more obvious in places like Somalia, Afghanistan, Afrika, etc where they topple central governments and replace them with warlords who fight each other for more resources, lands and ultimate control. Cavemen had tribes that did the same. Native Americans, the same. It's human nature to kill or be killed. Another 1000 years will still fail to undo the conditioning. Eventually we will make this planet uninhabitable with our wars or skynet becomes aware......we will make great pets, possibly even food...the plump ones are the juiciest.....lol
 
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I agree. The history of humankind agrees. As long as there are humans on this planet, some of them will always want to rule the others. It is never more obvious in places like Somalia, Afghanistan, Afrika, etc where they topple central governments and replace them with warlords who fight each other for more resources, lands and ultimate control. Cavemen had tribes that did the same. Native Americans, the same. It's human nature to kill or be killed. Another 1000 years will still fail to undo the conditioning. Eventually we will make this planet uninhabitable with our wars or skynet becomes aware......we will make great pets, possibly even food...the plump ones are the juiciest.....lol

I agree, although I'm a little more optimistic.
 
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