An assessment of the LA caucuses

[jabrownie]

Ladies and gents;

We fought a good fight, got outflanked, and lost this battle. Is the war over, NO! So, don't get discouraged, get out there and fight.

As for how we got outflanked, was it 'fair', NO!; was it 'honest', 'moral', or done without deceit and trickery, NO!. Oh, well, live and learn from it, remember it for other states, and other elections. This is not a game of patty-cake, so don't get shocked by this crap, learn it, figure out how to beat it, adapt.

When you get smacked down, you pick yourself up as quickly as possible; that's what we need to do now. I still hear the battle cry off in the distance, I still hear the horn of liberty blowing loud; so pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off, and rally to the standard in Maine.

 

[JWZguy]

Ladies and gents;

We fought a good fight, got outflanked, and lost this battle. Is the war over, NO! So, don't get discouraged, get out there and fight.

As for how we got outflanked, was it 'fair', NO!; was it 'honest', 'moral', or done without deceit and trickery, NO!. Oh, well, live and learn from it, remember it for other states, and other elections. This is not a game of patty-cake, so don't get shocked by this crap, learn it, figure out how to beat it, adapt.

When you get smacked down, you pick yourself up as quickly as possible; that's what we need to do now. I still hear the battle cry off in the distance, I still hear the horn of liberty blowing loud; so pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off, and rally to the standard in Maine.

The results are NOT IN YET.

Stop saying we lost! In several districts, if ALL our votes are actually counted, we WON.

No matter what, it looks like RP had more votes than any other single candidate! They couldn't even fill their own slates! We ARE winners here, one way or another.

We just need to carry this support on to other large states.

 

[Sandra]

I can't believe everyone in here is screaming that we lost. THE PROVISIONAL BALLOT HAVE NOT NOT BEEN COUNTED!!!!!

 

[JWZguy]

I can't believe everyone in here is screaming that we lost. THE PROVISIONAL BALLOT HAVE NOT NOT BEEN COUNTED!!!!!

Thank you Sandra!

 

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

Ladies and gents;

We fought a good fight, got outflanked, and lost this battle. Is the war over, NO! So, don't get discouraged, get out there and fight.

As for how we got outflanked, was it 'fair', NO!; was it 'honest', 'moral', or done without deceit and trickery, NO!. Oh, well, live and learn from it, remember it for other states, and other elections. This is not a game of patty-cake, so don't get shocked by this crap, learn it, figure out how to beat it, adapt.

When you get smacked down, you pick yourself up as quickly as possible; that's what we need to do now. I still hear the battle cry off in the distance, I still hear the horn of liberty blowing loud; so pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off, and rally to the standard in Maine.

You can't beat the people who make the rules.
It would be like the NFL saying next Sunday that the quarterback for New England can't play due to a last minute rule change, like in Nevada where they changed caucus location and provisional rules a few days before.
There is no way to prepare for infinite possibilities.

 

[Sandra]

You can't beat the people who make the rules.
It would be like the NFL saying next Sunday that the quarterback for New England can't play due to a last minute rule change, like in Nevada where they changed caucus location and provisional rules a few days before.
There is no way to prepare for infinite possibilities.

Well said, Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice....now submit a full body shot of your avatar!

 

[Bradley in DC]

Learn the friggin' rules already

Ok, a couple of random thoughts:

MsD. is right in that we're the real campaign--we need to learn from each other. We're still in the first few innings. What are the lessons here? Jenn had some about how to dress and present ourselves. Our LA activists did a LOT right--hats off to them! Obviously, HQ (well, nevermind, I've made my opinion of their Republican presidential primary sophistication--or lack thereof--pretty clear).

So, most importantly, where do we go from here? All of us in our respective states (or "states" for DC and territories), need to learn the rules (don't count on HQ):

Roughly half are straight primary states. In these places learn how the delegates are allocated (both by CD and AL which might be different). Are they decided winner-take-all or proportionately? It might not be that simple. For example, in many states, it will be winner-take-all by CD and proportional by AL. Every state has their own rules. Learn them.

In the caucus (or more confusingly mixed caucus/primary/convention/meeting states), things are more complicated. You REALLY need to learn the rules here. Find the old hands who have played the game before. Ask them how it's played. LISTEN TO THEM.

Now comes the tough part: grow up and make alliances if you have to with other campaigns.

 

[Sandra]

Actually the Pro Life/Family group has a lot in common with RP. They are just notaware of his stance on right to life. Some in BR now are.

 

[colin1]

See posts from Rodo1776 from the December timeframe. He posted, and I've bumped the hell out of his posts. Whose fault is it if people don't read and gain the knowledge?

And again, I'm tired of people blaming the campaign. ESPECIALLY in this particular case! Do I feel like they could have done something? Maybe.

But then I remember Ron Paul leans very libertarian. Does everyone here really truly understand what that means, and what a libertarian society would expect of you?

The way Dr Paul's campaign is being run is LIBERTARIAN in nature!! He expects us to do our duty, as we SHOULD. He expects us to learn what we need to learn and use it to help him promote liberty. We can't expect others to coddle and order us around. We can't expect him or his campaign to tell us what to do. We need to figure it out for ourselves, and with time left over. If you expect orders from above, you should really read up on libertarianism before supporting it.

Go to meetups people. There is NO excuse not to.

*mosquitobite hops off her soap box*

So now Rodo1776 is the official campaign?

Many people here are brand new to politics, and yes, it's the responsibility of HQ to provide guidance in an organized way to the grassroots. Some guy on here posting stuff back in December is a sorry substitute for effective communication from HQ to the meetup groups regarding tactics and strategy here. You're tired of people blaming HQ, I'm tired of people blaming the grassroots. I didn't realize libertarianism meant that we couldn't have effective leadership and discipline from the campaign HQ, but knowing how Libertarians usually do running for office, maybe you're right

 

[mosquitobite]

Ok, a couple of random thoughts:

MsD. is right in that we're the real campaign--we need to learn from each other. We're still in the first few innings. What are the lessons here? Jenn had some about how to dress and present ourselves. Our LA activists did a LOT right--hats off to them! Obviously, HQ (well, nevermind, I've made my opinion of their Republican presidential primary sophistication--or lack thereof--pretty clear).

So, most importantly, where do we go from here? All of us in our respective states (or "states" for DC and territories), need to learn the rules (don't count on HQ):

Roughly half are straight primary states. In these places learn how the delegates are allocated (both by CD and AL which might be different). Are they decided winner-take-all or proportionately? It might not be that simple. For example, in many states, it will be winner-take-all by CD and proportional by AL. Every state has their own rules. Learn them.

In the caucus (or more confusingly mixed caucus/primary/convention/meeting states), things are more complicated. You REALLY need to learn the rules here. Find the old hands who have played the game before. Ask them how it's played. LISTEN TO THEM.

Now comes the tough part: grow up and make alliances if you have to with other campaigns.

Our biggest strength would be knowing who the other supporters are and standing strong together (even in hiding if that's what's necessary).

If people went to meetups and knew who the RP delegate noms were without them shouting it to the world, yesterday might have had a very different conclusion.

It was Ron Paul vs the others. When really it should have been US throwing the others off balance wondering "so which ones ARE the Ron Paul supporters?"

 

[werdd]

You can't beat the people who make the rules.
It would be like the NFL saying next Sunday that the quarterback for New England can't play due to a last minute rule change, like in Nevada where they changed caucus location and provisional rules a few days before.
There is no way to prepare for infinite possibilities.

tom brady?

 

[dspectre]

I'm from Louisiana. And I know something about how the caucus works.

And uncommitted DOES apply. Every delegate elected can vote for whoever they want. That's what uncommitted means.

I agree with your assessment of the situation. What happened is just how the game is played.

However, this idea of uncommitted delegates is like saying the media is unbiased, and we know how ridiculous that is.

If these delegates were really uncommitted, why didn't we just forget the caucus and focus on the primary. Since these supposed uncommitted delegates would vote in line of the people, right?

 

[stevedasbach]

I don't think so. We were there to support an individual human being running for the presidency. Our strategy was to win by TURNOUT, which is legitimate in a representative democracy. We were beat by a legal, artificial corporate entity of the opposition's supporters, who will now dissolve into regular individual humans. The entity was nominally composed of "undecided" delagates who were "for" life and families. Their strategy was to win by a covert, temporary INCORPORATION.

The election was for delegates to the state convention, who are responsible for doing other things besides electing delegates to the national convention.

The other side, consisting of mostly long-time activists and elected officials, banded together to support each other's campaigns to be elected as delegates. They formed a slate to accomplish this objective. They support a variety of presidential candidates.

Our side, consisting of mostly people new to political action, banded together to support a specific presidential candidate. Being elected delegate was a means to an end, not the end itself. We formed a slate to accomplish this objective.

For us, the presidential choice is most important. For them, being a delegate and making party decisions is most important. I suspect that if one candidate was running away with the nomination, they would have all been for that candidate. For them, it was all about getting themselves elected. And technically, they are correct. The election was to elect delegates, not endorse a presidential candidate.

 

[aymn27]

You wonder why Dr. Paul has an image problem.

The Louisiana organizers busted their asses, and did great. They just got outflanked by people who have been working in Republican politics in this state for 25 years or more.

We are amateurs at this process. Hard working, well intended amateurs -- but amateurs.

And when we don't win (and 99% of the people posting on these forums don't even know the most basic rules about how the caucus works) we run around screaming conspiracy, and corruption.

There was no conspiracy. There was no corruption. All the delegates were running uncommitted, and the pro-life slate turned out its people.

Last night, every idiot and his brother was running around claiming we had won every delegate in the state. Ridiculous.

Grow up.

Give the Louisiana organizers some props. They worked hard, and did their best.

After the provisional ballots are counted -- we'll know how many delegates (out of 105) we have elected to the state convention.

THEN -- we'll know what the situation is.

Til then -- get a grip.

yes Huey...I think you are correct...all the delegates were "uncommitted" officially...so it seems to me that PF/PL had every right to hand out a ballot that they wanted certain delegates elected. We could have gotten with Thompson/Huck folks and created a "pro-South" block and got the votes to swing our way....nothing illegal, though maybe unethical.

In District 7, had Lake Charles been stand alone, we would have done extremely well...BUT the PLPF vote in Lafayette was 4x the RP vote...4x...they slaugthered us.

Am I pissed? Yes. Is there anything we can do? convert the elected delegates and canvass our neighborhoods for RP. AND bring folks IN to the LAGOP so that next time around WE can control party politics!

 

[Mordan]

As I explained, this tactic, were it the norm, could subvert the democratic favorite every time. Then, we're not living in a democracy, we're living in a back room power broker country. You're fervent SUPPORT of our disenfranchisement is SUSPICIOUS.

Man, it is Caucus democracy that's why. Caucus are like that. plain and simple

 

[Menthol Patch]

Was the name of the coalition on the ballot?

If so, then the name of Ron Paul should have been on the ballot.

If not, this whole thing is criminal.

 

[libertythor]

The RP delegates can propose and vote on changes to the state platform. Pro-liberty GOP directors can be elected. Lets start focusing on that, and make lemonade out of lemons.

 

[Kilrain]

Was the name of the coalition on the ballot?

If so, then the name of Ron Paul should have been on the ballot.

If not, this whole thing is criminal.

The "ballot" was just a list of names of delegates. People could check off up to 15 names and hand it in. They were all uncommitted and it was up to the voters to find out who or what each delegate supported. Campaign people (all grassroots I think) were there and made sure that people knew which delegates to pick.

 

[wildflower]

I'm getting online late today, and I'm confused.... Did we win Louisiana or not?

(yes, I know people keep asking that but I haven't seen a definitive answer yet)

 

[chrismatthews]

Politics is a contact sport and we were out-politicked.

Thank you to all the LA supporters, I know you busted tail and did the best you could.

I'd like to personally apologize for all of the sour grapes people that are peeing on your leg about it.