An assessment of the LA caucuses

[MsDoodahs]

no matter what, we need to keep fighting for the constitution EVERY election. This is a lifelong fight.

S

QFT.

 

[Computer]

So why, in your mind, did people vote for the candidates that represented themselves as pro-life and pro-family? Are they not pro-life and pro-family? Are they going to go to their convention and vote for something other than pro-life or pro-family? How exactly is any voters' will who voted for them being subverted?

It was the people of Louisiana who decided to grant victory to a slate of delegates that were a coalition that did not represent a single person, but rather an idea - that being that pro-life and pro-family (whatever that must mean to them) was more important than any single person. THE PEOPLE OF LOUISIANA MADE THIS DECISION.

In the marketplace of ideas, this pro-life pro-family slate knew what it's market wanted, and provided it. Ron Paul did not. Don't make up some type of conspiracy when the voters of Louisiana clearly and of sound and sober mind decided that they would rather elect a coalition of delegates committed to single issues than any actual one person.

Your problem is with the people of Louisiana, but because you are a populist reactionary, you are trying to invent some type of conspiracy where not only are the people not to blame, but if only they weren't being "oppressed", you would have actually got what you wanted!

I believe that what actually took place, was that Huckabee, McCain, Romney supporters, et al, knew they were being outgunned by Paul, who is pro-life and family, incidentally, and that the pro-life/pro-family slate was really a nudge nudge wink wink way to completely eliminate the huge Ron Paul faction.

So, yes, my contention is that this wasn't a sincere issues vote, but an obfuscated coalition specifically formed to disenfranchise Ron Paul supporters.

My reasoning to arrive at this conclusion is based on the fact that no where else in the country have we seen such a vague entity dominating over the popularity of the individual candidates. Plus, Ron Paul was poised to do extremely well, according to all accounts. Enter a vague new entity, the pro-life, pro-family slate.

Hmmmm.

 

[josh24601]

I believe that what actually took place, was that Huckabee, McCain, Romney supporters, et al, knew they were being outgunned by Paul, who is pro-life and family, incidentally, and that the pro-life/pro-family slate was really a nudge nudge wink wink way to completely eliminate the huge Ron Paul faction.

So, yes, my contention is that this wasn't a sincere issues vote, but an obfuscated coalition specifically formed to disenfranchise Ron Paul supporters.

My reasoning to arrive at this conclusion is based on the fact that no where else in the country have we seen such a vague entity dominating over the popularity of the individual candidates. Plus, Ron Paul was poised to do extremely well, according to all accounts. Enter a vague new entity, the pro-life, pro-family slate.

Hmmmm.

Again.... the people of Louisiana decided that they they preferred this vague coalition to Ron Paul. You don't want to see that, so I can't really help you.

 

[Computer]

Furthermore, where were all the supporters of the other candidates? And do people really show up to participate in the nominating process when they don't even have a candidate? This has not happened in any other state. Are people in the Louisiance GOP really that different? Wouldn't someone who was very pro-life investigate the candidates and then select the most pro-life candidate? These are all reasons that I feel this pro-life slate was a sham, and it was really a coalition of supporters of other candidates to disenfranchise Paul's fervant sypporters.

 

[Computer]

Again.... the people of Louisiana decided that they they preferred this vague coalition to Ron Paul. You don't want to see that, so I can't really help you.

I don't think there's more evidence for the conclusion than for my contention. So let people decide what they think happened.

 

[josh24601]

Furthermore, where were all the supporters of the other candidates? And do people really show up to participate in the nominating process when they don't even have a candidate? Wouldn't someone who was very pro-life investigate the candidates and then select the most pro-life candidate? These are all reasons that I feel this pro-life slate was a sham, and it was really a coalition of supporters of other candidates to disenfranchise Paul's fervant sypporters.

The citizens of the sovereign state of Louisiana decided they would rather choose a coalition based on a slate than a particular person. Get over it already.

 

[Computer]

The citizens of the sovereign state of Louisiana decided they would rather choose a coalition based on a slate than a particular person. Get over it already.

Josh is a terrible name by the way, IMO.

 

[josh24601]

I don't think there's more evidence for the conclusion than for my contention. So let people decide what they think happened.

Now you are being completely illogical. It is your burden to provide evidence of a conspiracy. You can't say that there are WMDs here and then tell me to prove it's not true.

 

[MsDoodahs]

So, yes, my contention is that this wasn't a sincere issues vote, but an obfuscated coalition specifically formed to disenfranchise Ron Paul supporters.

Politics is a bloodsport.

Hardball.

We're new at this game, but we are quick studies.

Fool us once, shame on you.

Fool us twice, shame on US.

We can't let this kind of shit happen again.

Louisiana is a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

Take it as such.

Get wise.

Get tough.

Play hardball with the big boys.

 

[josh24601]

Josh is a terrible name by the way, IMO.

I think that pretty much ends this thread.

Tell me how your conspiracy investigation goes, I'm gonna be up all night waiting to hear the results.

 

[Computer]

Politics is a bloodsport.

Hardball.

We're new at this game, but we are quick studies.

Fool us once, shame on you.

Fool us twice, shame on US.

We can't let this kind of shit happen again.

Louisiana is a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

Take it as such.

Get wise.

Get tough.

Play hardball with the big boys.

 

[mosquitobite]

Uncommitted is just a word that really doesn't apply, because it doesn't describe the truth. I'm not an idiot. This is an outrage. How can the favorite candidate of the people be disenfranchised? Using this tactic, that's how. I don't support it. I support representative democracy. What planet are you from?

This isn't a game, like some kind of election run by a dictator in Africa. This violates the very principles of our Republic. Saying I'm late in the game, or other such nonsense is just ad hominem BS.

Stop being hateful, both of you.

Read the link in my signature. Rodo1776 explained caucuses to us. Huey is correct - this is the way it's done. Whether we like it, whether we knew it, etc is irrelevant and the bickering doesn't solve shit.

We either learn how to work within the system, or we need to run 3rd party. Period.

Otherwise, we have no right to bitch when people who have been going to caucuses for years show up the newbies.

We have to educate ourselves here. If Ron Paul gets elected does everyone understand what a libertarian society would look like? Do you understand that expecting direction from the campaign is just what other candidates would like you to do (but not Ron Paul!)

We have to know what to expect. We have to learn, ask questions, talk to older people who HAVE gone to caucuses. We need to volunteer to be LEADERS. We have to go to meet ups!

If we fail, we have ourselves to blame.

jmho
.

 

[mosquitobite]

Politics is a bloodsport.

Hardball.

We're new at this game, but we are quick studies.

Fool us once, shame on you.

Fool us twice, shame on US.

We can't let this kind of shit happen again.

Louisiana is a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

Take it as such.

Get wise.

Get tough.

Play hardball with the big boys.

*mosquitobite stands and applauds*

QFT

 

[MsDoodahs]

If we fail, we have ourselves to blame.

jmho
.

I share that view.

It's far EASIER to blame the MSM, the powers that be, HQ, ANYONE other than face the fact: we're new at this and we're learning on the fly. That means sometimes we are going to make mistakes along the way.

When we don't win, it HURTS. That is okay. What is NOT okay is to let it whip you.

You are NOT whipped. Not a damned one of us is whipped.

You pick yourself up and you dust yourself off and you KEEP FIGHTING.

Look, people. No one said this would be easy. Least of all Ron Paul. He knows what we are up against.

Now, as time goes by, more and more of us are beginning to realize what we are up against.

Stop blaming others.

Regroup. Refocus. Learn from this experience and use what we've learned in the next battle.

The only other option is to quit.

I am not a quitter.

Are you?

 

[josh24601]

It wuz teh CFR....

Yeah I don't mean to sound bitter, I am just sick and tired of people blaming conspiracies when they don't get what they want, rather than actually examining reality.

 

[mosquitobite]

I'm not!


And again, people need to remember this rEVOLution doesn't end with Dr Paul - or at least it doesn't for me. Consider all these losses as VALUABLE lessons that we can use to support OUR LIBERTY CANDIDATE in 2012!! (that is of course if we still have a country by then!)

We will have the experience and people in place to start the tidal wave. Don't let losses beat you up! LEARN from them!

 

[RonPaulFTW08]

bump

 

[josh24601]

I'm not!
And again, people need to remember this rEVOLution doesn't end with Dr Paul - or at least it doesn't for me. Consider all these lessons as VALUABLE lessons that we can use to support OUR LIBERTY CANDIDATE in 2012!! (that is of course if we still have a country by then!)

A-freakin-men. I am vary afraid that lots of people will jump off the bandwagon and take up some other cause when the dust settles here, but it is my sincere hope that this remains a viable political movement that has an influence in the dialogue and politics of the nation for a long while to come.

 

[colin1]

I share that view.

It's far EASIER to blame the MSM, the powers that be, HQ, ANYONE other than face the fact: we're new at this and we're learning on the fly. That means sometimes we are going to make mistakes along the way.

When we don't win, it HURTS. That is okay. What is NOT okay is to let it whip you.

You are NOT whipped. Not a damned one of us is whipped.

You pick yourself up and you dust yourself off and you KEEP FIGHTING.

Look, people. No one said this would be easy. Least of all Ron Paul. He knows what we are up against.

Now, as time goes by, more and more of us are beginning to realize what we are up against.

Stop blaming others.

Regroup. Refocus. Learn from this experience and use what we've learned in the next battle.

The only other option is to quit.

I am not a quitter.

Are you?

I'm sorry but we're not running this campaign. It's HQ's responsibility to give guidance and strategy to the grassroots volunteers. They should have known about this tactic and more importantly should have let us know. That would have saved thousands of man-hours in anger, frustration and confusion over this. Did anyone receive any guidance regarding this? And yes I agree with you, we're going to have to take more responsibility in making sure we don't get outplayed next time.

 

[mosquitobite]

I'm sorry but we're not running this campaign. It's HQ's responsibility to give guidance and strategy to the grassroots volunteers. They should have known about this tactic and more importantly should have let us know. That would have saved thousands of man-hours in anger, frustration and confusion over this. Did anyone receive any guidance regarding this? And yes I agree with you, we're going to have to take more responsibility in making sure we don't get outplayed next time.

See posts from Rodo1776 from the December timeframe. He posted, and I've bumped the hell out of his posts. Whose fault is it if people don't read and gain the knowledge?

And again, I'm tired of people blaming the campaign. ESPECIALLY in this particular case! Do I feel like they could have done something? Maybe.

But then I remember Ron Paul leans very libertarian. Does everyone here really truly understand what that means, and what a libertarian society would expect of you?

The way Dr Paul's campaign is being run is LIBERTARIAN in nature!! He expects us to do our duty, as we SHOULD. He expects us to learn what we need to learn and use it to help him promote liberty. We can't expect others to coddle and order us around. We can't expect him or his campaign to tell us what to do. We need to figure it out for ourselves, and with time left over. If you expect orders from above, you should really read up on libertarianism before supporting it.

Go to meetups people. There is NO excuse not to.

*mosquitobite hops off her soap box*