Amazon Warehouse Worker Case Accepted by Supreme Court

Where's the limit? At what point does an employer have to recognize the employees rights? Or are you suggesting that the employer can do whatever they like as long as the employee either puts up with it or quits?


"...employees rights." There's another tell.

From a libertarian standpoint, the answer is yes. The government should not have the power to dictate contractual terms between an employer and an employee.

From a constitutional Republican standpoint, my personal opinion is that the Federal government has no legitimate authority in this matter, and this is an issue that should be decided by each state.
 
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The problem I see is that the employees are basically held hostage while they are being screened.

Nail, head.

Part of our philosophy includes the idea that on average people are pretty reasonable.
I'd be really quite surprised if it turned out that Amazon wasn't talked to at least twice on this issue.
Normal people don't sit in one 25 minute line and say "That's it, I'm gonna sue!"
Groups of people always contain at least some normal people, so I think it's outside of the realm of possibility that it wasn't brought up with Amazon management.

No, it's much more believable that Amazon had one guy screening 300 people trying to change shifts all at one time, that they were likely told this was bullshit, and that either they told the workers to fuck off, or, much more likely, some 27 year old Amazon staffer is now off the wagon again because he's sick and tired of telling his bosses that there's this massive worker morale problem that can be solved by putting two extra people on that line.
 
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So you think a corporation should be able to require you to do "work" without compensation?

They are not being required to do any work at all (with or without compensation).
It is a matter of loss-prevention - Amazon, etc. are not making any profits from this policy.
I think if you don't like your employer's policies, then you should quit if they won't change them.
(And if quitting over such things isn't "worth it" to you, well, then, there you go ...)

Also - what has "a corporation" got to do with it? "A corporation" as opposed to what?
A "mom and pop" outfit that did the same kind of thing?
Would that somehow make it "any better" or "more acceptable?"

After all whose bottom line is being protected by the security search.

... 'coz to hell with bottom lines.
It's not like bottom lines have anything to do with why employers even exist in the first place.
Apparently, the only purpose of employers is to service the wants & needs of their employees ...
:rolleyes:

This grotesquely over-simplistic "employers vs. employees" mode of analysis - where it is somehow automatically a "bad thing" for employers (or "corporations") to protect their "bottom lines" - is just more of the Manichean "us vs. them" BS that is used to keep people divided and bickering.

As for travel, you have the ability to live as close as you'd like to the building you work. Heck get a tent and sleep right outside the security fence.

Amazon, and all other companies owe the workers for that time.

Double-standard, much? As previously noted, you also have the ability to quit. And for a lot of jobs (perhaps even most), quitting and finding another more amenable job is probably a much more viable option than moving closer to work (not to mention such ridiculous nonsense as "tenting outside the security fence"). And then there's the whole matter of how you move closer to work if you're employed by a temp agency ...

You can dance around it all you like, but if it is justifiable to force employers to pay employees for time spent on things like this, then it is every bit as justifiable to force them to pay employess for the time & expenses involved in commuting to & from work. You can have it one way, or you can have it the other way - but you don't get to have it both ways.

I wouldn't dream of asking one of our employees to work for free, nor would I have done it when I was an hourly employee. In fact I fought the law and the law lost at my first job when I was 16 or 17 or something like that. The restaurant wanted to hold mandatory meetings for the entire staff (unpaid). I clocked in when I came in. They found out. I told them I would not be getting ready for work, driving to town, listening to them for an hour and not be paid for atleast the time I was present at the meeting. They changed their policy after that....and held less and more productive meetings.

:confused: Seeing as how no courts were involved in your little anecdote, it only goes to support my point.

If these unpaid-for loss-prevention security procedures are not a violation of anyone's contractual terms of employment, then NO ONE'S rights are being abused - and the government has NO business being involved in this dispute.
 
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You know what though? Now that I think about it - they were temps. It is very likely that they were not told about it ahead of time, which would make you right.

How often are temps fully apprised of the various policies of the various employers serviced by temp agencies before being assigned to those employers? As part of their contractual relationship with the temp agencies, do temp agencies stipulate to their temps that (by accepting an assignment to an employer) they are thereby expected to comply with the policies of the serviced employer - without necessarily having been informed of all of those policies beforehand?
 
How often are temps fully apprised of the various policies of the various employers serviced by temp agencies before being assigned to those employers? As part of their contractual relationship with the temp agencies, do temp agencies stipulate to their temps that (by accepting an assignment to an employer) they are thereby expected to comply with the policies of the serviced employer - without necessarily having been informed of all of those policies beforehand?

Temps are typically given a lot of basic information about the job - where to go, who to talk to, what the job entails, breaks, lunch hours, etc etc. Also how to get their hours documented at the end of the day.

It is conceivable to me that Amazon didn't make it clear that after the temp signs out that they would be searched. It is also conceivable to me that even if that was included in the information that they didn't disclose how long the delay was.

But I can see that running into a barrier to exiting the building could be construed as false imprisonment in certain circumstances, the first being that the employee was not informed about it. But that's only good for a single day.
 
Because Amazon controls inventory lossage by screening the workers that a temporary agency sends them, it's a shithole? You've obviously never worked with temps.

You get some of the nicest most normal people you'll ever meet, but you also get people who didn't even bother to sober up from the previous night. It's a total crap shoot.


A total crapshoot? The crapshoot is randomness, a process in opposition to basic math and hence, always doomed to fail.

It's a craphole because they have low standards. Using temps. Using random methods. Expect less. Get less.

Amazon and their workers did this to themselves. The taxpayers who foot the judicial bill did this to themselves. And that ain't sarcasm.
 
Nail, head.

Part of our philosophy includes the idea that on average people are pretty reasonable.
I'd be really quite surprised if it turned out that Amazon wasn't talked to at least twice on this issue.
Normal people don't sit in one 25 minute line and say "That's it, I'm gonna sue!"
Groups of people always contain at least some normal people, so I think it's outside of the realm of possibility that it wasn't brought up with Amazon management.

No, it's much more believable that Amazon had one guy screening 300 people trying to change shifts all at one time, that they were likely told this was bullshit, and that either they told the workers to fuck off, or, much more likely, some 27 year old Amazon staffer is now off the wagon again because he's sick and tired of telling his bosses that there's this massive worker morale problem that can be solved by putting two extra people on that line.

Well said. The basic math. The devil in the details.
 
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Here we have yet another terrible & tragic instance of market failure. "There oughtta be a law ..." :rolleyes:

I would be fine with a law protecting privacy and outlawing background checks altogether,

but somehow I doubt this will lead there.
 
I was turned down for a job as a groundskeeper at a cemetery (mowing lawns) due to a background check.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/employment-woes.html
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/08/update-background-check.html

I was turned down for a job at Walmart because of the background check. (without being given any reason at all)

It is pretty common.

I read your blogs, Pete. Sorry to hear about that. And yes, I know it's common. That is part of the problem and the new low standard that many have come to accept. The lack of common sense, lack of knowledge, and lack of skill with today's managers.

I've had quite a few jobs in my life. I supervised in three fairly good positions. If (as a poster expressed in an earlier post) a manager can't tell a "normal" person from a party goof off, then that person has no business in management.

You simply can't outsource basic management functions to temp agencies, labs (drug testing), and metal detector companies. Amazon's management has basically learned nothing from history. They are certainly lacking in math. And now they're probably losing money on attorneys and public relations for this case. They'll lose more when they have to buy more metal detectors and pay more TSA rejects to run them. They lose even more when they realize how the attempted detection that doesn't work in airports--also doesn't work in a warehouse.

Companies that use random methods lose. Randomness is not a replacement for basic management functions.

BTW, if I were still a manager and you applied for a position, then I would definitely consider you. I know a woman who got a felony simply because somebody else had some cocaine laying on the woman's coffee table. That was 20 years ago, and she still has a hard time. I know that woman and would hire her in a minute. Thankfully, she has a half-way decent job now because somebody had the knowledge and skill to recognize a good worker.
 
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Do doctors get paid for Surgery Time when they have to extensively wash their hands before going into surgery?
 
I worked a Christmas rush 3rd shift as a temp at an Amazon warehouse several years back. It was kind of fun and very educational. The outgoing security check was no big deal. But it did happen after you had clocked out.
 
Just picked up this bad boy for the best price around. Thanks Amazon!

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You simply can't outsource basic management functions to temp agencies, labs (drug testing), and metal detector companies. Amazon's management has basically learned nothing from history. They are certainly lacking in math. And now they're probably losing money on attorneys and public relations for this case. They'll lose more when they have to buy more metal detectors and pay more TSA rejects to run them. They lose even more when they realize how the attempted detection that doesn't work in airports--also doesn't work in a warehouse.

That's why you're making a lot more money than Amazon, I guess.
 
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