Amazon Warehouse Worker Case Accepted by Supreme Court

[Occam's Banana]

They'll lose more when they have to buy more metal detectors and pay more TSA rejects to run them. They lose even more when they realize how the attempted detection that doesn't work in airports--also doesn't work in a warehouse.

I seriously doubt that any metal detectors or TSA-style "patdowns" are involved here. This is loss-prevention - not bomb-prevention. They're checking to make sure no one is trying to smuggle items out of the warehouse.

I used to work in a textbook warehouse - a direct competitor with Amazon for the (K-12 and college) textbook market. The policy there was to check all bags, boxes, totes, backpacks, etc. of all employees after they clocked out. (If you came in with a book, you needed to get it initialled by the security guard - who was employed full-time and "in house" - or you needed to otherwise ensure that it was known to belong to you and not the company. I was assigned the job one night when the regular guy called in sick.)

This was not being done to harass anybody or "steal peoples' rights away" or "exploit the workers" or any such nonsense - and it certainly did NOT involve getting any work out of employees without due compensation. It was just common-sense loss-prevention. It never caused any problems for anyone (except for the would-be thieves who were caught - and there were several of those over the course of my time there).

AFAICT, the only problem in the Amazon case is that Amazon employs so many people that it can take the people "at the back of the line" up to 25 minutes or so to "clear the doors." This is an annoying inconvenience, to be sure - but it is no more (or less) of an annoying inconvenience than travelling to and from work. Some jobs entail such things, and some do not. One should seek the latter if one considers things like this to be intolerable.

 

[angelatc]

A total crapshoot? The crapshoot is randomness, a process in opposition to basic math and hence, always doomed to fail.

It's a craphole because they have low standards. Using temps. Using random methods. Expect less. Get less. .

Ok, you're totally committed to the idea that Amazon is a horrible pace to work because they have loss prevention measures in place. But from an accounting standpoint, I can assure you that even the mere threat of audits do indeed discourage and prevent theft, so it makes sense to assume that actually checking the bags of exiting workers would increase the odds that less merchandise would walk out the door.

And there are indeed times when hiring temps makes more sense than hiring employees. Any business that experiences big swings in volume are usually better off hiring temporary workers than dealing with all the paperwork that comes with employees.

 

[enjerth]

I worked a Christmas rush 3rd shift as a temp at an Amazon warehouse several years back. It was kind of fun and very educational. The outgoing security check was no big deal. But it did happen after you had clocked out.

If you bypassed their security measures and made your escape immediately after clocking out, could you be fired?

If you aren't free to go, then you're still on your employer's time.

 

[angelatc]

There might be multiple suits about this, but here's one in PA alleging the same thing, and it isn't temp workers complaining: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/15/amazon-sued-over-20-minute-unpaid-daily-security-s/

 

[angelatc]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=4284929236361196068&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

They are also suing Amazon because walking to and from the on-site cafeteria took 5 minutes each way, and that meant they didn't have an entire hour for lunch.

Occam's Banana, you win the internet for calling it before it came out: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...upreme-Court&p=5440395&viewfull=1#post5440395

 

[brandon]

A shithole like Amazon?

WTF are you talking about?

Amazon is an excellent company to work a skilled job at. Engineers are treated great there. I'd love to work there. Actually interviewed there last fall but didn't get an offer. I can't say much about the warehouse workers, but I definitely wouldn't call amazon a shithole.

 

[brandon]

Here's a really cool video about the automation in amazon warehouses. The more employee regulation they're hit with the more motivation they will have to automate further.

 

[Occam's Banana]

They are also suing Amazon because walking to and from the on-site cafeteria took 5 minutes each way, and that meant they didn't have an entire hour for lunch.

That is just ridiculous. At the textbook warehouse I mentioned working at before, anyone in receiving who smoked had to go all the way from one end of the warehouse to the other to get to the smoking lounge. It took from 3-5 minutes, depending on how fast you went and whether you stopped at the vending machines. And we only had a 30 minute lunch break (and two 15 minute breaks). No one ever talked about suing anyone over it ...

 

[LibertyEagle]

Who are you quoting?

No one. That is why there aren't little quote marks.

 

[matt0611]

I like the way you changed the word employer to "corporation. That's a tell.

Yes, I think an employer should be able to require you to work without compensation. You know why? Because nobody would.

This scenario is roughly the same. Say Amazon claims that they're working you 8 hours a day, paying you $10 an hour. But you have a 15 minute stop on your way out the door at night after you clock out. So you really aren't getting that full $10 an hour, and because you aren't stupid, you know that.

But it's' worth it to you.

Wait - it isn't worth it to you? Then obviously you already quit.

Exactly. Its a requirement that's baked into the job that they require you to do this when you leave. Don't like it you can always quit.

If I were amazon I would just pay the employees for that time and lower their hourly wage.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

That's why you're making a lot more money than Amazon, I guess.

You "guess" or do you know? Is your guessing the "crapshoot" you described earlier?

I seriously doubt that any metal detectors or TSA-style "patdowns" are involved here.

From the article: "The employees, Jesse Busk and Laurie Castro, said workers had to spend as much as 25 minutes after their shifts ended to pass through metal detectors."

I can assure you that even the mere threat of audits do indeed discourage and prevent theft, so it makes sense to assume that actually checking the bags of exiting workers would increase the odds that less merchandise would walk out the door.

And there are indeed times when hiring temps makes more sense than hiring employees. Any business that experiences big swings in volume are usually better off hiring temporary workers than dealing with all the paperwork that comes with employees.

How can you assure anyone of anything if you said earlier that hiring temps is a "crapshoot"? Good management is not a crapshoot, or something left to the wind. Good management is organization, skill, and knowledge. Good management works on probabilities and does not count on randomness or any crapshoot, whether it's for hiring or to prevent theft.

 

[green73]

FFS, NorthCarolinaLiberty,

Freedom to travel is an inherent human right. What the government is doing is a clear violation of that.

Working at Amazon IS NOT an inherent human right.

Edit: Further, travelling on private property is not an inherent human right.

 

[MelissaWV]

Do doctors get paid for Surgery Time when they have to extensively wash their hands before going into surgery?

No, because they are salaried. The trouble comes when deciding hourly compensation.

At work, drive time is paid after the first half hour and mileage after the first 15 miles, and people agree to that.

As far as the temps, they are hourly employees who are told (for sake of argument) that they're going to work an eight hour shift but they're not allowed overtime. Unfortunately the business is set up to require an unpaid extra half hour or so from them. As Angela said, this should pretty much last only one day as temps are at-will and can just not show up the next day.

I "work" extra by coming in early, cleaning my workspace, and printing out reports I need before I'm on the clock. I'm not forced to, but in order for me to be satisfactorily ready to begin working right when 8am rolls around, I do it. It lets me get a running start on the day and I do not get paid for it. If I no longer wanted to do this, I would stop. If my employer required me to work off the clock, I simply wouldn't. Fire me if you want.

Mind you, most temps are going to put up with this and more, as they usually really need the work. It's the agencies, as someone said, that stand to gain a lot from this. A half hour times how many workers?

 

[kcchiefs6465]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=4284929236361196068&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

They are also suing Amazon because walking to and from the on-site cafeteria took 5 minutes each way, and that meant they didn't have an entire hour for lunch.

Occam's Banana, you win the internet for calling it before it came out: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...upreme-Court&p=5440395&viewfull=1#post5440395

Another reason their company is a piece of shit.

It was literally a quarter mile to the break room. Fifteen minute breaks were a joke.

Needless to say, I didn't work but a day. It wasn't the worst job I've ever had, but to those that put up with their bullshit, I commend them. Walk/jog 25 miles in a night and add on another half mile to eat lunch. Cigarette breaks were unheard of (because you had to walk a 3/8ths a mile to their door, and then another quarter mile to get off their property). And to top it off, you are screened when you leave.

And as Fish pointed out, there are two lines to leave, some 600+ people leaving, and only one or two security guards. It was a joke.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Green,

I'm not suggesting anything about human rights. I don't even think this should be in any court, hence my comment about living under a bridge.

These past few generations act like Amazon and Walmart are some kind of 21st century GM. The laziness of management, as demonstrated in this example of random management, is not going to get it done.--unless of course, you care nothing about low standards.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

I seriously doubt that any metal detectors or TSA-style "patdowns" are involved here. This is loss-prevention - not bomb-prevention. They're checking to make sure no one is trying to smuggle items out of the warehouse.

It's not even metal detectors. It is a human sized turnstyle that only allows one person out per 8 seconds or so. There were no pat downs, or wand waves. Unless they had someone on camera stealing something, and simply wanted to prevent that someone from leaving speedily, they were pointless.

Of course, if someone stole a case of Ipads, for example, they could hit the nearest emergency exit in any case.

Pretty much pointless. On top of it being a shitty job (at least, where I worked).

 

[pcosmar]

Simple solution,, Move the damn time clocks.Do your intrusive searches on the clock.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Another reason their company is a piece of shit.

It was literally a quarter mile to the break room. Fifteen minute breaks were a joke.

Needless to say, I didn't work but a day. It wasn't the worst job I've ever had, but to those that put up with their bullshit, I commend them. Walk/jog 25 miles in a night and add on another half mile to eat lunch. Cigarette breaks were unheard of (because you had to walk a 3/8ths a mile to their door, and then another quarter mile to get off their property). And to top it off, you are screened when you leave.

And as Fish pointed out, there are two lines to leave, some 600+ people leaving, and only one or two security guards. It was a joke.

Nice insight from somebody who worked there. Nice input regarding the real math.

Of course, if someone stole a case of Ipads, for example, they could hit the nearest emergency exit in any case.

Pretty much pointless.

One of a zillion ways to bypass their "audits" of security. I could go in there figure out how to clean up six ways from Sunday in a matter of minutes. I'm sure you can, too.

 

[Occam's Banana]

From the article: "The employees, Jesse Busk and Laurie Castro, said workers had to spend as much as 25 minutes after their shifts ended to pass through metal detectors."

In that case, I stand corrected on this particular point.

But even this is not unreasonable, given the quantity of detectably metal items sold by Amazon.

 

[green73]

Green,

I'm not suggesting anything about human rights. I don't even think this should be in any court, hence my comment about living under a bridge.

These past few generations act like Amazon and Walmart are some kind of 21st century GM. The laziness of management, as demonstrated in this example of random management, is not going to get it done.--unless of course, you care nothing about low standards.

Low standards? That sounds like a gap in the market...if what you are saying is true.