Amash is saying Trump has engaged in an impeachable offense

[ProBlue33]

Trump fires back, calls Justin a 'loser'

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...at-loser-gop-lawmaker-who-said-hed-engaged-in

In addition to Trump, the Republican National Committee (RNC) denounced Amash over his accusation.

“It’s sad to see Congressman Amash parroting the Democrats’ talking points on Russia. The only people still fixated on the Russia collusion hoax are political foes of President Trump hoping to defeat him in 2020 by any desperate means possible," said RNC Chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel.

It is sad.

 

[specsaregood]

One thing I like that Trump has done is made it easier for people who are out of options to try experimental medicines

He has been good on criminal justice reform too, IIRC.

 

[ProBlue33]

Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

https://www.tekton.com/


Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.

 

[specsaregood]

Besides the anti-Zionist angle and Amash being Palestinian, his family's business being affected by the China tarrifs etc...

I think he is doing it to get press and name recognition ahead of his announcement of a third party run for the LP in 2020.

Not a smart move to use the Mueller saga as a vehicle for that imho, but I think that is the most likely motivation.

By the way:
From a legal point of view, obstruction does NOT require an underlying crime, because obstruction is aimed at preventing the collection of evidence and therefore getting an indicment (H. Clintons deletion of 33000 emails qualifies for sure). The threshold of proof in criminal cases is very high ("beyond reasonable doubt") which is why prosecutors love process crimes like lying to them or obstruction. They are much easier to prove. It is BS and contrary to any common sense, but that is the legal theory behind it.
The Mueller report, however, is NOT claiming that they proved obstruction (beyond reasonable doubt). Instead, they are saying that they could not "exonerate" Trump. Exoneration is NOT a concept of criminal law. It would require proving a negative which is impossible. It also puts the principle of "inncocent until proven guilty" on its head. According to this principle, you are automatically deemed innocent once the prosecution closes the case without an indicment. The exoneration terminolgy used by the Mueller team is a bone thrown to Congress, so that they have a political football to toss arround.

And it is no different than charging somebody under the sole charge of "resisting arrest" when no other crime has been committed. It is a strange world when one sees self claimed libertarians arguing in favor of such absurdities.

 

[ATruepatriot]

Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but and Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

https://www.tekton.com/


Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.

Yep... I posted this personal conflict of interest earlier on another thread.

 

[ATruepatriot]

And it is no different than charging somebody under the sole charge of "resisting arrest" when no other crime has been committed. It is a strange world when one sees self claimed libertarians arguing in favor of such absurdities.

We now live in a world of being judged guilty for "rumor and thought crimes".

 

[Anti Globalist]

As far as I'm concerned Amash pretty much killed his presidential ambitions with this move. Can you imagine whats going to happen if he runs in 2024? Trump and the rest of the Republican candidates are going to be attacking him for being the only Republican calling for impeachment.

 

[ProBlue33]

I think he is doing it to get press and name recognition ahead of his announcement of a third party run for the LP in 2020.

Now that the China connection is in play, I don't think he has a chance, it was political suicide, even Mitt Romney came out against it, that's how bad it is.
Very stupid move.

 

[ATruepatriot]

As far as I'm concerned Amash pretty much killed his presidential ambitions with this move. Can you imagine whats going to happen if he runs in 2024? Trump and the rest of the Republican candidates are going to be attacking him for being the only Republican calling for impeachment.

I could be wrong but I'm going to make a likely prediction. Amash is going to backtrack and say he didn't really mean this to be understood and perceived as it has been... He is just trying to figure out how to word this. His base is filling up his answering machine as we speak.

 

[oyarde]

Ok I did a little bit of digging around as to why, because it didn't make logical sense, but Amash has a very selfish motivation for this move.


A review of Amash’s financial interests quickly reveals a very personal business motive. His family tool business is heavily invested in Chinese manufacturing.

Representative Amash reports income of between $100,000 to $1,000,000/yr. for his ownership stake in Michigan Industrial Tools. Michigan Industrial Tools is the parent company, manufacturing in China, that produces Tekton Tools, Justin Amash’s Michigan family business.

https://www.tekton.com/


Obviously President Trump’s tariff and trade position against China is adverse to the financial interests of Justin Amash.
And there has been issues with him saying his tools are Made in the USA and they are not.

I just lost all respect for him, pathetic.

Beyond that, Reddit is talking about launching a primary challenger to him because he is viewed as a total traitor now.

I have an old half inch drive metric deep well impact socket set made by MIT , I really do not know if it was made in Grand Rapids or china . Been a good set but I would not even have bought it if I thought it was made in china . I think all of the Tekton is made in china . They should make them here but they won't because they could get more for them and the steel would be better but it would lessen the profit margin which was probably huge .

 

[TheCount]

Now does this indicate that because he is President, whatever he supposedly did may have actually been within his legal powers and protections as POTUS and he is not just "any other person"?

No, it indicates that the DoJ has a policy that says that they believe that they cannot indict the president.

Whether something is or is not within the power of an elected official doesn't matter. If it did, there would be no such thing as corruption.

 

[Anti Federalist]

The facts don't seem to matter to the trumpcucks.

Serious question:

What did Trump do, specifically, to "obstruct justice"?

Did he himself, or did he order evidence destroyed?

Did he order people to lie under oath?

Did he delete or erase digital evidence?

I'm seriously asking of anybody who has read the report in depth.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

This reporting is by Foxnows, a notorious fakenews outlet that hosts disgraced neocons tools like Hannity, Levin, Judith Miller etc. So should be cautious until report is confirmed by other reliable sources.
But if confirmed as non-fakenews, this is bold move by Romney even if he's not positioning for a contigency 2020 run secretly:



Published 2 hours ago

Romney: Mueller report did not show obstruction, 'I don't think impeachment is the right way to go'

By Ronn Blitzer | Fox News

Flashback: Biden mocks Romney over Russia threat

Former Vice President Joe Biden's attacks on Mitt Romney for his 2012 warning about Russia resurfaces.

Soon after Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., went against the GOP consensus by claiming President Trump committed "impeachable conduct" in the form of obstruction of justice, another known Trump critic took the opposite position.
Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, acknowledged that while he has called out Trump when he's deemed it appropriate, he does not believe the Mueller report provided evidence that supports impeaching the president.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rom...ight-way-to-go






Related

[h=3]

Poll: Why Mueller did not exonerate POTUS on Obstruction Of Justice charge?[/h]

 

[ATruepatriot]

No, it indicates that the DoJ has a policy that says that they believe that they cannot indict the president.

Whether something is or is not within the power of an elected official doesn't matter. If it did, there would be no such thing as corruption.

Guilty yet still no evidence. Guilt by rumor. Guilt by rumor of defending himself from a crime. And yes, the President is granted certain legal immunities in his capacity like it or not. Just as are many capacities like Police. Judges, and foreign diplomats. But first there has to be a crime anyhow, so far there is none, only rumors. And Amash admits that his aids relayed these rumors to him. Who is to say they even have a clue what the hell they are talking about?

 

[TheCount]

Guilty yet still no evidence. Guilt by rumor. Guilt by rumor of defending himself from a crime.

Who said anything about guilt? Indictments and impeachments have nothing to do with guilt.

And yes, the President is granted certain legal immunities in his capacity like it or not.

How and by what document(s)?

Just as are many capacities like Police. Judges, and foreign diplomats.

Qualified immunity only protects you if you obey the law. There are laws against corruption and obstruction of justice.

Prosecutors cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to drop cases. Judges cannot lawfully demand or accept demand bribes to give light sentences. The president cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to give pardons. And so on. Even though those actions are within the powers of those government officials, they cannot use their powers corruptly.

But first there has to be a crime anyhow, so far there is none, only rumors. And Amash admits that his aids relayed these rumors to him. Who is to say they even have a clue what the hell they are talking about?

You are lying. Nowhere does Amash say that.

 

[oyarde]

Looks like Rand and Romney back to the same place everyone always arrives at . No evidence . One thing is sure . If the dems were to win the next presidential election all the RPF libertarians should have a truckload of better crimes to talk about .

 

[UWDude]

You mad bro?

Furious.

 

[devil21]

I think they would damage each other but they will not inflict fatal damage to each other. Its like fights in professional wrestling, sometimes blood is spilt but the goal is never to concuss/KO their opponent.

Astute comparison. It's not like Donald has been involved in the WWE or anything.

Oh wait... yes he has and even appointed the queen of WWE to his cabinet. Things that make ya go hmm.....

--------------------

Amash's tweets, according to ZH:


Here are my principal conclusions:
1. Attorney General Barr has deliberately misrepresented Mueller’s report.
2. President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct.
3. Partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances.
4. Few members of Congress have read the report.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

In comparing Barr’s principal conclusions, congressional testimony, and other statements to Mueller’s report, it is clear that Barr intended to mislead the public about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s analysis and findings.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

Barr’s misrepresentations are significant but often subtle, frequently taking the form of sleight-of-hand qualifications or logical fallacies, which he hopes people will not notice.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

Under our Constitution, the president “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” While “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” is not defined, the context implies conduct that violates the public trust.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

Contrary to Barr’s portrayal, Mueller’s report reveals that President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

In fact, Mueller’s report identifies multiple examples of conduct satisfying all the elements of obstruction of justice, and undoubtedly any person who is not the president of the United States would be indicted based on such evidence.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

Rather than attack President Trump, Amash emphasized that the standard on impeachable "does not even require probable cause," which doesn't sound like a great excuse for impeaching someone.

Impeachment, which is a special form of indictment, does not even require probable cause that a crime (e.g., obstruction of justice) has been committed; it simply requires a finding that an official has engaged in careless, abusive, corrupt, or otherwise dishonorable conduct.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

While impeachment should be undertaken only in extraordinary circumstances, the risk we face in an environment of extreme partisanship is not that Congress will employ it as a remedy too often but rather that Congress will employ it so rarely that it cannot deter misconduct.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

Our system of checks and balances relies on each branch’s jealously guarding its powers and upholding its duties under our Constitution. When loyalty to a political party or to an individual trumps loyalty to the Constitution, the Rule of Law—the foundation of liberty—crumbles.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

We’ve witnessed members of Congress from both parties shift their views 180 degrees—on the importance of character, on the principles of obstruction of justice—depending on whether they’re discussing Bill Clinton or Donald Trump.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

After a certain point, it started to seem like Amash's tweetstorm might have been spurred by anger at his colleagues for not bothering to have read the Mueller report.

Few members of Congress even read Mueller’s report; their minds were made up based on partisan affiliation—and it showed, with representatives and senators from both parties issuing definitive statements on the 448-page report’s conclusions within just hours of its release.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

America’s institutions depend on officials to uphold both the rules and spirit of our constitutional system even when to do so is personally inconvenient or yields a politically unfavorable outcome. Our Constitution is brilliant and awesome; it deserves a government to match it.
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019


Who can really argue against that? Someone may disagree with his final conclusion regarding obstruction (and only those that HAVE READ IT SHOULD HAVE A FIRM OPINION, otherwise you're only regurgitating media talking points) and whether impeachable but he's not wrong about the rest of it.


-----------------------------------------

If he is running, he has no chance, anybody who runs against Trump in a primary is throwing away both money and time.
It a fools errand.
If they couldn't beat him in 2015/2016, there is no way they have a chance now.

Someone can run in a primary because ya never know what could happen. Donald could have a massive cheeseburger induced heart attack the day before the convention. Or something realllllly bad could surface. Or an assassination. Or a myriad of other possibilities. Is primarying an incumbent Pres probably a waste of time and money? Yes. Are there reasons to place a long shot bet that Donald may not make it to the convention? Also yes.

 

[ATruepatriot]

Who said anything about guilt? Indictments and impeachments have nothing to do with guilt.




How and by what document(s)?




Qualified immunity only protects you if you obey the law. There are laws against corruption and obstruction of justice.

Prosecutors cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to drop cases. Judges cannot lawfully demand or accept demand bribes to give light sentences. The president cannot lawfully demand or accept bribes to give pardons. And so on. Even though those actions are within the powers of those government officials, they cannot use their powers corruptly.

All bullshit distraction and you know what I say is absolutely correct.

You are lying. Nowhere does Amash say that.

Right in a tweet of his own making... And I think he is lying, He didn't read it himself. They never do, none of them. He tasked his aids as a team to do it for him.


I offer these conclusions only after having read Mueller’s redacted report carefully and completely, having read or watched pertinent statements and testimony, and having discussed this matter with my staff, who thoroughly reviewed materials and provided me with further analysis.

— Justin Amash (@justinamash) May 18, 2019

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-donald-trump-engaged-in-impeachable-conduct/

 

[ATruepatriot]

Looks like Rand and Romney back to the same place everyone always arrives at . No evidence . One thing is sure . If the dems were to win the next presidential election all the RPF libertarians should have a truckload of better crimes to talk about .

I trust Rand more than I do Amash.