Am I getting through to my Liberal brother?

M

millercards

Member
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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
312
So my brother and I have been going back and forth for a week now through text message. He's a liberal for social issues, gay rights, and not fighting in unneccesary wars. I don't want to be over-the-top, so once he stops responding, I stop texting that day.

First response from Him: He's a bigot and a racist.

Me: He believes in civil liberty and freedom for all, of course he's not.

--- then I went on and on about his good points until he stopped talking.

Another day...

Me: I told him when the date to register Republican was.

Him: I'm registered Independent but will be voting Obama silly.

Me: Might as well vote for Newt, they are all the same.

Him: Not quite.

Me: Obama is just another corrupt politician. A lot of liberals love Ron paul. Do you think just anyone could make me this involved?

no response...

Today:

Me: Obama voted for NDAA. Now if the govt even suspects you of terrorism they can lock up Americans indefinately with no trial. Big Brother needs to be taught a lesson.

Him: I don't agree with that. Unfortunately it's difficult to find a candidate that does everything 100% to your satisfaction. Honestly to think so would be like following a cult leader.

Me: It's about freedom and liberty and fixing the economy and preventing the rest of the world to hate us for being world policy. Obama acts republican. Obama gave trillions to banks. Our money. To banks. Why are You bailing out banks? Why are you giving money to Pakistan then bombing them?

Him: Good questions

Me: Do you believe the govt needs to hold our hands? Politicians aren't supposed to be able to sell you anything. Theyre not supposed to have that much power.


... he hasn't responded, so I won't be texting back unless he does or until tomorrow or next day.


Am I getting through to him? Any thoughts on where I could go next. I'm not sure how to handle the gay marriage issue, he's for it.
 
A lot of people have to learn for themselves. Tell him to join the forum and ask questions.
 
millercards said:
Am I getting through to him? Any thoughts on where I could go next. I'm not sure how to handle the gay marriage issue, he's for it.
Click to expand...

Well I don't know how that is in America, but wouldn't the optimal situation for that be that gays are allowed to register a civilian marriage, which gets them on the same line as people married in church. It's the church's own business whom they marry inside their buildings and the govt doesn't have any right to meddle in that, but gays ought to be able to register a valid civilian marriage.
 
If you are truly anti-war you can't vote for anyone but Paul (out of the current contenders who have a shot at winning). If you are truly against racism then Paul is the only one standing against the most racist policy we have- the war on drugs. Saying you're anti-war and against racism, while voting for more war and more racism while people's lives are at stake, means you don't really feel strongly about these issues and are just paying them lip-service like most politicians who claim to be against war and racism. Paul is the only one willing to do something about this sorry state of affairs, he is the only one compassionate enough to empathize with those who are dying, suffering or locked away in a government cage. Rhetoric isn't enough and that's all Obama offers. If he really cared he'd be outraged because the people suffering *right now* need help NOW. How many cancer victims does your brother know who are sick and in prison? How many kids have been told since Obama's election that their daddy won't be coming home alive from the wars? How many more if a true anti-war candidate isn't elected? Talk is cheap. People spout beliefs they don't truly stand behind and voters are just as guilty of it as politicians. Remember that bumper sticker "If you're not outraged you're not paying attention"? Yeah, it's kind of like that. ;) Maybe we need to bring that bumper sticker back (it was popular under Bush) and add Ron Paul 2012.
 
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millercards said:
...
Am I getting through to him? Any thoughts on where I could go next. I'm not sure how to handle the gay marriage issue, he's for it.
Click to expand...

If you're just texting, I wouldn't go any further than he wants the government out of marriage. Focus on the other issues. When you have fish on the hook, you don't try and get him to bite another hook - you reel it in.
 
Thanks for all of the input.

He texted back and the topic was Economics, so it's gotten easier at the moment.

If gay marriage comes up again as a potential deal-breaker, then I'll turn to that angle.
 
He told me the old "we need to tax the rich more" theory.

I posted this on his facebook and told him this is why it won't help:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..
The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that.
Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections.

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
By: Ed Will
 
It's not about taxing the rich. It doesn't matter how much they're taxed if they write the laws that give them the loopholes and our government continues the wasteful spending. Taxing the rich is more empty rhetoric that sounds nice but really means nothing. Stopping the cronyism (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!!), stopping the wasteful spending and ending the bailout mentality- they're solutions. Taxing the rich is nothing but a meme to get people to vote for politicians who say it but are actually getting their campaign money from "the rich" and will not vote to hurt their biggest contributors.

And bless you for real. I have a few in my family who won't even discuss these issues at all and have this same Obama mentality. It's just painful. The best I've been able to do with them is get them to consider voting Paul in the primary (open primary in VA) to help get him the nomination so at least if Obama loses we'd have another anti-war candidate. They think Obama is anti-war but I digress. Incredibly frustrating, that mentality. Educated people who just don't think too deep. On the upside there are more in my family who are now Paul supporters. :)
 
Mention: Obama appointed a Monsanto VP to head the FDA. This is the type of industry corruption that ruins agencies and why regulations so often backfire.

Mention: Ron Paul is not against gay marriage. He's against the government defining marriage at all. He thinks gov't should get out of marriage all together, and leave it to the churches and people. Two people can use whatever word they want, the problem begins only when the gov't tries to define and legislate it.
 
You are doing a good job of planting seeds. Just remember to frame your arguments in a liberal context. He may not turn as quickly as you would like, but it will eventually happen. You are right not to push too hard though, just let it grow naturally.
 
We kept going at it hardcore for a while.... it'd be too long to type all texts out.

He changed the subject from economics and told me that social issues was his biggest thing... gay marriage being the biggest.

I posted two of the videos shared above from mosquito.

He has not responded to them, but I'll wait to ask about them again tomorrow.

+rep for mosquito (if I knew how or could) Am I too new?
 
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