Alan Keyes lawsuit on Obama birth

[qh4dotcom]

Ok...let's suppose a miracle happens and Obama is declared ineligible to serve as President because of this birth issue....would we be better off with the socialist President Biden?

 

[BeFranklin]

Ok, support for what I've been saying about by the land citizenship not being desirable, from Thomas Jefferson no less, and Virgina specifically rejected it. (The below commentary is a little wrong, England had both forms of citizenship - by where born and by inheritance - and somehow I'll make a wild guess that freemen had the form I'm talking about.

After the Revolution, States retained only those portions of common law that were applicable to their local circumstances. In England at the time every person born within the realm of the King was considered a natural born subject under the maxim every man owes natural allegiance where born. This natural allegiance was perpetual and difficult to severe or alter (Once a English subject, always a English subject) and was found odious in this country (America went to war against this “natural allegiance” in 1812) .

The State of Virginia outright rejected the common law doctrine in 1777 when it adopted the following doctrine written by Thomas Jefferson:

[A]ll infants, whenever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise, their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this Commonwealth until they relinquish that character, in manner as hereinafter expressed; and all others not being citizens of any, of the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens.

 

[BeFranklin]

Kostakopoulou

In his "defense of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith", for instance, Suarez states that the Pope has the power to "remove a prince, deprive him of his dominion in order to prevent him from harming his subjects, and absolving his subjects from their oaths of allegince...

In regards to the connection between land tenute (land) and personal homage (loyality), the medieval rule was that birthplace determined the contract of subjecthood (note: see the term "and subject to" in the 14th amendment and compare to the meaning of subjecthood and what citizenship by the land means). Every person born a landlord's land was landlord's subject and owed allegiance to him, that is, fidelity and obedience.

I'm seeing a definate reversal here between 14th amendment citizenship and sovereign citizenship our forefathers had at the time they defeated the King. An attempted reversal, apparently, back towards the days of divine rights of kings, and vassalage and subjects living on the land.

Looks kindof intentional actually.

 

[BeFranklin]

Ok, I'll quit in a bit, but these things have ramifications...

Magna Carta. Note it is for the heirs by descent as well, and looks a little like the US Constitution in that form. Also, as guessed above, freemen inherited these rights by the blood, not land. SO IN OTHER WORDS YOU CAN BET THE FOUNDERS KNEW THE DIFFERENCE. What is up with that.

Magna Carta

1. In the first place we have granted to God, and by this our present charter confirmed for us and our heirs forever that the English Church shall be free, and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate; and we will that it be thus observed; which is apparent from this that the freedom of elections, which is reckoned most important and very essential to the English Church, we, of our pure and unconstrained will, did grant, and did by our charter confirm and did obtain the ratification of the same from our lord, Pope Innocent III, before the quarrel arose between us and our barons: and this we will observe, and our will is that it be observed in good faith by our heirs forever. We have also granted to all freemen of our kingdom, for us and our heirs forever, all the underwritten liberties, to be had and held by them and their heirs, of us and our heirs forever.

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Who knows Miss "I have 26 posts". Jeesh.

LOL that's my girl *high fives*.

 

[kirkblitz]

A new challenge to Senator Barack Obama’s citizenship was filed November 12th in California demanding that the court stop certification of the election results until the state’s secretary of state can ascertain from Senator Obama his legal qualification to be a candidate for President. This 18 page petition is a quick read. It offers a good summary of what is at stake and the questions that surround Senator Obama’s citizenship.


A few points:

Petitioners Ambassador Dr. Alan Keyes, Dr. Wiley S. Drake, Sr., and Markham Robinson, establish their standing to file the petition as members of the American Independent Party, for which Drs. Keyes and Drake were presidential and vice-presidential candidates on California’s ballot, respectfully. (This is a technical point that doomed some other lawsuits.)


Petitioners note that Senator Obama has not provided proof of his citizenship eligibility despite repeated requests during the primary and general election campaigns.


Petitioners note that action in at least 10 states is underway challenging Senator Obama’s eligibility.

Petitioners note that the 2007 birth certificate offered by Senator Obama is of questionable credibility for several reasons, including that it is a copy of suspect authenticity and that it does not detail actual birth location.


Petitioners note that the only person claiming witness to Senator Obama’s birth is his own paternal grandmother who claims he was actually born in Kenya, then the British East African Protectorate of Zanzibar. Other records and recollections of family members suggest either Queens Hospital or Kapiolani Hospital in Hawaii. The disclosed Registry of Live Birth is a short-form of the birth certificate that does not state whether Obama was born in Hawaii or that his birth was subsequently registered there within the year following birth as then allowed by state law.

Petitioners note that around 1967, Senator Obama moved to Indonesia with his mother and new stepfather. Records indicate that once in Indonesia he adopted his stepfather’s name and citizenship. Since dual citizenship was not allowed by Indonesian law, and U.S. law and treaty obligations required respect of this, Mrs. Obama-Soetoro had to relinquish her minor son’s U.S. citizenship. Elsewhere, they note that if he later recovered it, and no records apparently substantiate this, it would by law be as a “naturalized” citizen, not a “natural born” and, thus, ineligible for the office of President under the Constitution.


Petitioners also note that in 1961 what is now known as Kenya was then the British Protectorate of Zanzibar which, if he was born there as his paternal grandmother claims, he would be a British citizen based on his father’s citizenship.

Petitioners also note that in 1981 Senator Obama traveled to Pakistan, which was then banned by the U.S. Since he could not legally travel with a U.S. passport, they question whether he used one of his other passports: Indonesian, Kenyan, or British. (Interesting point is that the petitioners state affirmatively that he had other passports.)I am curious to see how this case fares in the courts. The question of Senator Obama’s citizenship and constitutional eligibility have never been settled. In fact, Senator Obama has resisted at every step to release his birth certificate and other relevant records that would resolve this matter. That he has fought this suggests the information is at least embarrassing, if not disqualifying.
http://www.theindependentview.com/fi...es_v_bowen.pdf

 

[Truth Warrior]

http://www.theindependentview.com/files/final_writ_keyes_v_bowen.pdf

Damn, I just really love this goofy shit, watching the corrupt sociopathic bogus system devouring it's own.

Let's see, a government investigation will probably eventually be called and established. The final "OFFICIAL" conclusion will be .................. wait for it ................... "incompetent and inept".

SURPRISE!!!

You can't make this stuff up.

"The instinct to command others, in its primitive essence, is a carnivorous, altogether bestial and savage instinct. Under the influence of the mental development of man, it takes on a somewhat more ideal form and becomes somewhat ennobled, presenting itself as the instrument of reason and the devoted servant of that abstraction, or political fiction, which is called the public good. But in its essence it remains just as baneful, and it becomes even more so when, with the application of science, it extends its scope and intensifies the power of its action. If there is a devil in history, it is this power principle." -- Mikhail Aleksandrovich Bakunin

 

[scandinaviany3]

yep that is the real problem

They don't follow any laws.

Helllooooooooo?

that is the real problem....

 

[scandinaviany3]

is there like a chronical on this stuff

Exactly. Coercion at it's finest.

Also, it should've never made it out of Congress because they illegally ejected someone from the chamber who was going to vote against it and break the tie.

if there isnt there should be a chronical made on all this stuff...would make an ugly picture

 

[scandinaviany3]

physical birth in kenya or hawaii is all that can be argued

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_v._Rusk

IT appears from this previous supreme court ruling that Barack if born in the US would still be a natural born citizen.

If not born physically in the US would not be a natural born citizen...

So Kenya or Hawaii is the focus after that the arguement is gone.

So the microfish records and signatures of copy of the doctors of the live birth should be reviewed and the matter closed by the supreme court and all the challengers.

I guess there is the other chance to say he is not a citizen at all because of loss of citizenship with the move to indonesia and failure to renaturalize when he returned....boy would that send shock waves through the system of total corruption being present..

Lol...too sad...not to be funny

 

[scandinaviany3]

interesting questions raised here

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/barack-obama-born-in-hawaii/

Interesting points raised about the means to travel between kenya, the papers announcement days after his birth and requirement of an official certificate for announcing the birth(dont know on this...someone should comment on this)

 

[Truth Warrior]

Ok...let's suppose a miracle happens and Obama is declared ineligible to serve as President because of this birth issue....would we be better off with the socialist President Biden?

Sock puppets tend to be pretty interchangable, just plug 'n play.

 

[Gin]

keyes is INSANE, watch his speeches, or at the debates hes totally and utterly INSANE

not only that but do you realize how powerful obama is? the certificate that was already produced, (and no i don't mean the first copy, i mean the second one that is featured on snopes) looks authentic, and if it isn't authentic is the best fake i have ever seen.... hes powerful enough to pull it off either way

not only that, but do you know what would happen if he didn't become president? or if he got shot? we would be in the next civil war, there would be major riots, and we would all be screwed.

Either way this goes... there is going to be trouble.. Either riots over Obamanation losing or protests ([probably not peaceful) if the Rule of Law is ignored...

It's going to be messy plain and simple...

 

[Cinderella]

protests ([probably not peaceful) if the Rule of Law is ignored...

It's going to be messy plain and simple...

doubt there will be riots if the rule of law is ignored.....there hasnt been any riots yet so why would this be any different....

 

[Gin]

doubt there will be riots if the rule of law is ignored.....there hasnt been any riots yet so why would this be any different....

I dunno... by the time it's all said and done you may be surprised... so far over 100,000 people have sign this petition...

Stop the Obama Constitutional Crisis
Sign the Petition : 101,667 Letters and Emails Sent So Far

http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/

FOX is already getting folks fired up stating that we may soon see a Revolution or Tax Revolt

 

[libertarian4321]

Alan Keyes seems to have gotten very unpopular and lost his senate seat when he started talking about Income tax being a slave tax... That EVERYBODY who paid it was a slave...

he either lost his senate seat to obama or obama was like the other senator in the state after keyes lost.

Keyes ran against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.

Keyes proved to be about as popular as rectal cancer, garnering a whopping 27% of the vote in receiving one of the most lop sided ass-whippings any major party candidate has ever received for statewide office in IL (which probably explains his bitterness toward Obama).

I guess the voters of Illinois noticed that Keyes is batshit crazy.

If you ever get a chance to see Keyes speak or debate, watch him- its pretty comical. He starts out pretty rational, but he always manages to work himself into a lather- and by the end, he's ranting and his eyes are bulging out like a lunatic (you won't see this in older video - say 2000 or before when he would sometimes speak well- but he's really lost touch with reality in recent years).

 

[LibertyEagle]

I guess the voters of Illinois noticed that Keyes is batshit crazy.

That and the fact that Illinois is liberal as all heck.

 

[melissa22]

calling you a retard would be an insult to retards

lol How about creating a coherent argument so that I can understand your inane and retarded diatribes, plebeian.

 

[Gangularis]

Keyes ran against Obama for an open Senate seat in 2004.

Keyes proved to be about as popular as rectal cancer, garnering a whopping 27% of the vote in receiving one of the most lop sided ass-whippings any major party candidate has ever received for statewide office in IL (which probably explains his bitterness toward Obama).

I guess the voters of Illinois noticed that Keyes is batshit crazy.

If you ever get a chance to see Keyes speak or debate, watch him- its pretty comical. He starts out pretty rational, but he always manages to work himself into a lather- and by the end, he's ranting and his eyes are bulging out like a lunatic (you won't see this in older video - say 2000 or before when he would sometimes speak well- but he's really lost touch with reality in recent years).

No doubt.. Anyone that thinks Keyes jumped on this "Prove your birth, Obama" wagon ride, just to be an uber patriot, is niave. This lawsuit, on Keyes' behalf, WREAKS of ulterior motives.

I've come to be a strong Ron Paul supporter, but I also support Obama.. This lawsuit is ridiculous.. If there were any credible truth to this issue, do you really think Obama would have made it this far? Wouldn't that be a national security risk? Don't you think the FBI, or the CIA, or the NSA would've been all over it, behind the scenes? These guys would be in so much trouble if they let this guy slip through their fingers, all the way to the presidency.

Common sense, people.. This is conspiracy theory at it's worst.

Read here for the extensive, rational debunking on this issue:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

 

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

That and the fact that Illinois is liberal as all heck.

Keyes is a dominionist and an interventionist, and therefore, a liberal at heart.

I gained a new found respect for Obama after seeing him debate that sniveling piece of shit.