Alan Keyes lawsuit on Obama birth

natural born in these united states.
that is all that is required. besides the age limit.
14th amendment gave parentage birth outside the u.s. federal citizen status.
a federal citizen does not have the same rights as a citizen of a state.
the op has it backwards.

I quoted relevant passages later in the thread. The sole reason for the 14th amendment is to give slaves who were born here (actually already born here) citizenship because their parents weren't citizens. A similar problem is mentioned in one of the wikipedia articles of classes of citizens in europe who never attained citizenship because they don't inherit it from their parents. Inheritance was the traditional form in most of europe. England had both forms. Age wouldn't normally have anything to do with it unless you are naturalizing and not natural born.

Edit:
Question: does one parent or both have to be american citizens to be a natural born citizen under inheritence?

3rd definition down for natural.

3 a (1): begotten as distinguished from adopted ; also : legitimate (2): being a relation by actual consanguinity as distinguished from adoption <natural parents> b: illegitimate <a natural child>
 
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FYI: Researching old law; the mix between where you are born and descent goes down through the ages, and blackstone mentions both. I personally have no intention of researching it much more.

However, if you are born of one american parent abroad, it appears you fall under neither system and are usually naturalized.
 
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FYI: Researching old law; the mix between where you are born and descent goes down through the ages, and blackstone mentions both. I personally have no intention of researching it much more.

However, if you are born of one american parent abroad, it appears you fall under neither system and are usually naturalized.
AKA No Kenya born POTUS. ;)
 
the man has a ego a mile wide...he will be heard

And ignored! Still I wonder if this will make it anywhere. Someone could steal the document. Then it would be hard to ignore and would probably at least be heard in court.

FYI: I re-edited the thread to reflect that blackstone shows that both methods and/or a mixture of the two types of citizenship were in use - and there are long running debates on this on other forums. Not sure how the 14th affected the one, although it clearly affects the other.

Edit: although by the soil reflected allegience to the king, and america had no king after the revolution. By descent is obviously what the king used for his own descendents.
 
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No, they are a citizen under the 14th Amendment - as it is currently interpreted - Ron Paul says its a modern wrong interpretation of the 14th, but they are not what was originally meant by natural born.
Keep in mind that the 14th Amendment was never ratified.
 
No, YOU are insane!


keyes is INSANE, watch his speeches, or at the debates hes totally and utterly INSANE

not only that but do you realize how powerful obama is? the certificate that was already produced, (and no i don't mean the first copy, i mean the second one that is featured on snopes) looks authentic, and if it isn't authentic is the best fake i have ever seen.... hes powerful enough to pull it off either way

not only that, but do you know what would happen if he didn't become president? or if he got shot? we would be in the next civil war, there would be major riots, and we would all be screwed.
 
Alan Keyes seems to have gotten very unpopular and lost his senate seat when he started talking about Income tax being a slave tax... That EVERYBODY who paid it was a slave...

he either lost his senate seat to obama or obama was like the other senator in the state after keyes lost.


Keyes is an african-american patriot imo.
 
The southern states were forced to ratify it as conditions of their surrendor and readmittance.
I wouldn't say any law made at the end of the barrel of a gun is legit.

I agree.

And delving into the murky waters of speculative legal history, after consulting several old volumes of law online - btw you can read blackstone for free through google books, I believe the following is true:

Jus Sanguinis goes back to the Romans, which is why most of Europe uses it. England also has it, explicitly if both parents are citizens, or if the father is. England also has Jus Soli, with the idea if you were on the kings soil, you owed him allegiance, you were his property. Jus Soli was added later.

Although the 14th amendment is Jus Soli and came later, our interpretation idea seems to come from that. I am not so sure that the founders in the original didn't really mean it as natural born instead of "native born" if talking by land.

Why? First, Jus Soli is an English idea apart from most of europe that really ties people back to the idea of being owned by the state or sort of as property. But at the end of the revolution the people were sovereigns, and it seems that their inheritance should then be acting like that of kings, or by blood inheritance. Furthermore, the constitution was by the people, not the other way around, presuming they created the borders already as a people - and people generally are by blood inheritance not as servants on land. Second, it is implied in the preamble of the Constitution itself, as the concept of posterity is like Jus Sanguinis.

So following the concept of individual sovereignty, I'm not sure you would want citizenship to flow from Jus Soli, as Jus Soli implies vassalage to a king or state, instead of the sovereignty of the people creating the state.

Edit: Regardless, since neither both parents or his father alone is a citizen, I don't think Obama qualifies as a natural born citizen under Jus Sanguinis under common law from what I've read. That leaves where he was born as a possible issue.
 
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care to elaborate? i don't know you, you don't know me, and because you disagree with my opinion of mr keyes, you call me insane?

hmmmm makes tons of sense

Because you are the insane and rebarative moron that made no claims to his insanity. Just because the man is a bit of a goober in his speeches and lacks power in his voice, he is for the constitution. What do you know of Alan Keyes Miss "Location: somewhere in BFE, MO"

Don't make me laugh.
 
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The southern states were forced to ratify it as conditions of their surrendor and readmittance.
I wouldn't say any law made at the end of the barrel of a gun is legit.
Exactly. Coercion at it's finest.

Also, it should've never made it out of Congress because they illegally ejected someone from the chamber who was going to vote against it and break the tie.
 
Because you are the insane and rebarative moron that made no claims to his insanity. Just because the man is a bit of a goober in his speeches and lacks power in his voice, he is for the constitution. What do you know of Alan Keyes Miss "Location: somewhere in BFE, MO"

Don't make me laugh.


and now you resort to insults, makes a good case for your maturity so say what you want.

what i know about alan keyes, i learned from campaigning for ron paul for the last 18 months... like watching ALL of the debates, some of them in person, watching many of his speeches and reading his writings, listening to supporters and opponents of his, etc

you never asked me WHY i thought he was insane, a lot of people here think he is insane as well, if you don't believe me take a poll. Instead you just made the statement that I was insane. I didn't find it necessary to elaborate why I thought he was insane, just like I don't find it necessary to elaborate when i say Sean Hannity is a douchebag either.

Not only that but I didn't say Alan Keyes wasn't for the constitution. There are a lot of people out there that are for freedom, liberty, and the constitution, that also happen to be insane, and do rediculous things to make themselves appear insane. I happen to agree with a lot of what he says, but he chooses to say kooky things, in that rediculous marvin the martian preacher voice, that make him appear insane. He makes Ron Paul look bad by saying similar things and then acting like an idiot,

oh but thanks for attacking me for my opinion instead of giving reasons why you think hes not insane, why don't you do some googleing before your next response
 
Because you are the insane and rebarative moron that made no claims to his insanity. Just because the man is a bit of a goober in his speeches and lacks power in his voice, he is for the constitution. What do you know of Alan Keyes Miss "Location: somewhere in BFE, MO"

Don't make me laugh.

Who knows Miss "I have 26 posts". Jeesh. :rolleyes:
 
The outright blackout (no pun intended) of Alan Keyes from all MSM news networks during his entire crusade of campaigning for President is a VERY obvious indicator of the media being line-step with the statists...just not that obvious to the sheeple.

I happen to like many of Keyes' positions. This tired song-and-dance of Obama being "the first" African-American (more like Amerikan-African) presidential candidate is really chaffing.
 
The outright blackout (no pun intended) of Alan Keyes from all MSM news networks during his entire crusade of campaigning for President is a VERY obvious indicator of the media being line-step with the statists...just not that obvious to the sheeple.

I happen to like many of Keyes' positions. This tired song-and-dance of Obama being "the first" African-American (more like Amerikan-African) presidential candidate is really chaffing.

Yeah, when I was a kiddo, I sign waved for Keyes a couple of times. I've become quite a bit more libertarian since them, but I still think he makes a lot of sense on certain issues.

I think he's a sincere person, who really believes what he says is right, and argues for it to the best of his ability, without trying to slime his way into popularity. This puts him in a rare and high category of politician right there, in my book. You know, one who stands for something, and has actual principles they are supporting.
 
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