According To Supreme Court Precedent, The United States Of America Is A Christian Nation

[Swordsmyth]

These days, if you dare to suggest that the United States is a Christian nation or that it should be a Christian nation, you are likely to get viciously attacked. There are many voices on the left that have convinced themselves that America has never been a Christian nation and that it will never be a Christian nation. But in our system of government matters of law are not settled by what intellectuals on the left think. Rather, in our system of government matters of law are settled by the U.S. Supreme Court, and the U.S. Supreme Court has spoken very clearly on this matter.

In Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, the U.S. Supreme Court emphatically stated in 1892 that “this is a Christian nation”…

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find every where a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: the form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen;” the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing every where under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.

Subsequently, in Zorach v. Clauson the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1952 that we “are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being”…

We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. We guarantee the freedom to worship as one chooses. We make room for as wide a variety of beliefs and creeds as the spiritual needs of man deem necessary. We sponsor an attitude on the part of government that shows no partiality to any one group and that lets each flourish according to the zeal of its adherents and the appeal of its dogma.

That same opinion contains a stinging rebuke for those that would seek to remove all traces of Christianity from public life…

The First Amendment, however, does not say that, in every and all respects there shall be a separation of Church and State. Rather, it studiously defines the manner, the specific ways, in which there shall be no concert or union or dependency one on the other. That is the common sense of the matter. Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other — hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly. Churches could not be required to pay even property taxes. Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups. Policemen who helped parishioners into their places of worship would violate the Constitution. Prayers in our legislative halls; the appeals to the Almighty in the messages of the Chief Executive; the proclamations making Thanksgiving Day a holiday; “so help me God” in our courtroom oaths — these and all other references to the Almighty that run through our laws, our public rituals, our ceremonies would be flouting the First Amendment. A fastidious atheist or agnostic could even object to the supplication with which the Court opens each session: “God save the United States and this Honorable Court.”

When the U.S. Supreme Court sets a precedent, our entire system of government is bound by that precedent.

And according to a precedent that was set all the way back in 1892, we are a Christian nation.

More at: https://citizenwatchreport.com/acco...ited-states-of-america-is-a-christian-nation/

 

[Invisible Man]

On the other hand, SCOTUS has no authority to declare what is and isn't Christian. That's Jesus's purview. And I don't think his verdict on the USA is as positive as SCOTUS's at any point in time.

 

[TheTexan]

Just a wild guess but I'd expect that the impetus behind separation of Church and State was to make sure that all the Christian faiths were represented equally.

It wasn't an invitation for Muslims Jews and Hindoos to invade and overtake our culture

 

[wizardwatson]

Apostate Christian nation. Which, if you understand the bible, is worse than being a secular nation (Jer 3:11).

Trump can talk about "defending Christianity" and praying for the Holy Spirit all he wants. But without repentance there's no revival. If he was a sincere Christian, he would call for national repentance like the King of Nineveh. But instead, he lies, bombs, murders and encourages murderers.

This nation can smear the blood of Christ all over itself all it wants. But it is God who knows whether you are saved by the blood or accountable for the shedding thereof.

“He who first invented the notion of defending Christianity is de facto Judas No. 2; he also betrays with a kiss, only his treachery is that of stupidity.”
― Soren Kierkegaard

 

[Swordsmyth]

Just a wild guess but I'd expect that the impetus behind separation of Church and State was to make sure that all the Christian faiths were represented equally.

It wasn't an invitation for Muslims Jews and Hindoos to invade and overtake our culture

Precisely.
NonChristians whose religion doesn't conflict with Christian morality, culture, and law get the benefit of what was conceived as a Peace between Christians rather than having endless wars and persecutions between believers.

Any religion that conflicts, like Satanism, was never covered and you would have been tarred and feathered for suggesting it was.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Apostate Christian nation. Which, if you understand the bible, is worse than being a secular nation (Jer 3:11).

Trump can talk about "defending Christianity" and praying for the Holy Spirit all he wants. But without repentance there's no revival. If he was a sincere Christian, he would call for national repentance like the King of Nineveh. But instead, he lies, bombs, murders and encourages murderers.

This nation can smear the blood of Christ all over itself all it wants. But it is God who knows whether you are saved by the blood or accountable for the shedding thereof.

“He who first invented the notion of defending Christianity is de facto Judas No. 2; he also betrays with a kiss, only his treachery is that of stupidity.”
― Soren Kierkegaard

That sounds like exactly the kind of self righteous and pharisaical judgment we are commanded not to do.

 

[wizardwatson]

That sounds like exactly the kind of self righteous and pharisaical judgment we are commanded not to do.

If you think that is judgmental, I doubt you've very much read anything Paul has written or what Christ himself said.

Telling people and nations to repent or die, is precisely the gospel brought to us by Jesus Christ.

Lying to people telling them, "Hey, man, you aren't going to die just cause you do minor sins." is precisely the first lie told by Satan himself.

Keep reading.

 

[Swordsmyth]

If you think that is judgmental, I doubt you've very much read anything Paul has written or what Christ himself said.

Telling people and nations to repent or die, is precisely the gospel brought to us by Jesus Christ.

Lying to people telling them, "Hey, man, you aren't going to die just cause you do minor sins." is precisely the first lie told by Satan himself.

Keep reading.

You are not just calling for repentance and revival (without going into your oversimplification of things or debating your interpretation of things), you specifically arrogated yourself to pass Judgment on Trump and Americans as a whole.

You are not GOD, you don't get to pass that kind of judgment, you can merely encourage repentance.

 

[wizardwatson]

You are not just calling for repentance and revival (without going into your oversimplification of things or debating your interpretation of things), you specifically arrogated yourself to pass Judgment on Trump and Americans as a whole.

You are not GOD, you don't get to pass that kind of judgment, you can merely encourage repentance.

I am a son of God.

Your OP premise is that this is a Christian nation. Sure, it's CINO like RINO. But with regards to substance, it's clearly not Christian.

With regards to Trump, what about your judgement? I don't recall a single instance where you've complained about Trump calling whoever doesn't agree with him stupid, ugly, evil or any of the other judgmental things he says on a daily basis. Though admittedly I have not read all 73,020 of your posts. But here I am saying plain Christian things, which Trump himself claims to follow, in order to warn Trump (really people who claim he is 'Christian' or identify with him from things he said related to God and Christ) he needs to fall in line with the commands of our Lord, and you are offended.

Do you think Trump is a real Christian and I am not? If so, is this your position as a Christian?

It is a distinctly worldly and un-Christian view that the mere "pointing out of sin" is judgmental and offensive. The entire mystery and existence of Christ is centered around him pointing out sin and being condemned on the cross because people in positions of power were offended by it.

The point of pointing out sin, is to correct it. Is that judgment/hate or is that mercy/love? I suppose if you are offended by the message of the gospel (that this life isn't the most important thing), then it's judgment. But if you believe the message, then is it not mercy if it would lead to your salvation?

And "judging" nations is generally the same. Obviously it doesn't mean "every individual" is the same, just like every member of the body of Christ is not the same. The bible is full of examples where a nation was judged and destroyed but some were saved out of it. Individual salvation and national "salvation"-if we were to call it that-are different.

Christ is not a demographic. Being "Christian" is not a label. By Christ's own words, "Blessed are those who are not offended by me." This doesn't mean that if you are offended you are hellbound, but it does mean that your spiritual condition is worse than those who are not offended.

In short, I am perfectly capable and permitted to point out that this nation is in a state of apostasy. Trump I can't say that, as I'm not sure his faith and committment to the Lord ever rose to the level of belief that apostasy would be an apt term. To me he's simply a run-of-the-mill lying politician who adopts the words and values of his voter base.

You may be offended by that, but when people slap a label on themselves that is clearly referencing Jesus Christ, you come under jurisdiction of God's house.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I am a son of God.

Your OP premise is that this is a Christian nation. Sure, it's CINO like RINO. But with regards to substance, it's clearly not Christian.

With regards to Trump, what about your judgement? I don't recall a single instance where you've complained about Trump calling whoever doesn't agree with him stupid, ugly, evil or any of the other judgmental things he says on a daily basis. Though admittedly I have not read all 73,020 of your posts. But here I am saying plain Christian things, which Trump himself claims to follow, in order to warn Trump (really people who claim he is 'Christian' or identify with him from things he said related to God and Christ) he needs to fall in line with the commands of our Lord, and you are offended.

Do you think Trump is a real Christian and I am not? If so, is this your position as a Christian?

It is a distinctly worldly and un-Christian view that the mere "pointing out of sin" is judgmental and offensive. The entire mystery and existence of Christ is centered around him pointing out sin and being condemned on the cross because people in positions of power were offended by it.

The point of pointing out sin, is to correct it. Is that judgment/hate or is that mercy/love? I suppose if you are offended by the message of the gospel (that this life isn't the most important thing), then it's judgment. But if you believe the message, then is it not mercy if it would lead to your salvation?

And "judging" nations is generally the same. Obviously it doesn't mean "every individual" is the same, just like every member of the body of Christ is not the same. The bible is full of examples where a nation was judged and destroyed but some were saved out of it. Individual salvation and national "salvation"-if we were to call it that-are different.

Christ is not a demographic. Being "Christian" is not a label. By Christ's own words, "Blessed are those who are not offended by me." This doesn't mean that if you are offended you are hellbound, but it does mean that your spiritual condition is worse than those who are not offended.

In short, I am perfectly capable and permitted to point out that this nation is in a state of apostasy. Trump I can't say that, as I'm not sure his faith and committment to the Lord ever rose to the level of belief that apostasy would be an apt term. To me he's simply a run-of-the-mill lying politician who adopts the words and values of his voter base.

You may be offended by that, but when people slap a label on themselves that is clearly referencing Jesus Christ, you come under jurisdiction of God's house.

All men, including Christians, are sinners.
You labeled Americans as a whole Apostates, and declared Trump to be insincere.
You have no basis to judge Americans as a whole Apostate, nor to judge Trump's heart.

Christ went and ate with Publicans, Whores and Sinners in preference to self righteous and judgmental Pharisees.

Preach repentance all you want, but knock it off with the judgment.

 

[wizardwatson]

All men, including Christians, are sinners.
You labeled Americans as a whole Apostates, and declared Trump to be insincere.
You have no basis to judge Americans as a whole Apostate, nor to judge Trump's heart.

Christ went and ate with Publicans, Whores and Sinners in preference to self righteous and judgmental Pharisees.

Preach repentance all you want, but knock it off with the judgment.

Who said I wouldn't eat with them?

Jesus not only ate with them he healed the blind, then said things like, "Now stop sinning or something worse will happen to you."

Keep reading.

 

[acptulsa]

Christ went and ate with Publicans, Whores and Sinners...

... and wizard is here trying to get through to you.

Unfortunately, you're the worst kind of poison server, self-abaser and sinner of all -- a Pharisee.

Don't tell me judge not lest ye be judged. You've judged me to be a godless leftist traitor, and worse, just for pointing out that Trump doesn't keep promises. I'm just proving to you that Jesus was right, and maybe you should listen to Him.

Pointing out that He criticized your behavior doesn't make you righteous when you're pointing the finger at another. It makes you the worst kind of hypocrite.

 

[Invisible Man]

All men, including Christians, are sinners.
You labeled Americans as a whole Apostates, and declared Trump to be insincere.
You have no basis to judge Americans as a whole Apostate, nor to judge Trump's heart.

Christ went and ate with Publicans, Whores and Sinners in preference to self righteous and judgmental Pharisees.

Preach repentance all you want, but knock it off with the judgment.

Calling the USA a Christian nation is passing judgment on it.

You are fine with judging the USA, but only if that's the verdict. Your problem with WW's judgment isn't that he judges, it's that he reaches a verdict you don't like.

 

[familydog]

Apostate Christian nation. Which, if you understand the bible, is worse than being a secular nation (Jer 3:11).

Trump can talk about "defending Christianity" and praying for the Holy Spirit all he wants. But without repentance there's no revival. If he was a sincere Christian, he would call for national repentance like the King of Nineveh. But instead, he lies, bombs, murders and encourages murderers.

This nation can smear the blood of Christ all over itself all it wants. But it is God who knows whether you are saved by the blood or accountable for the shedding thereof.

If you think that's bad, let me tell you the story about King David, who God said was "a man after my own heart."

 

[wizardwatson]

If you think that's bad, let me tell you the story about King David, who God said was "a man after my own heart."

Do you know what God did to the house of David for David's sin?

...let me tell you it is still ongoing.

Keep reading.

 

[familydog]

Do you know what God did to the house of David for David's sin?

...let me tell you it is still ongoing.

Keep reading.

Yes, Kind David received earthly punishments for his sin. Yet, God spared his life, despite the law stating he should receive the death penalty for his murder of Uriah. God also blessed him after these sins with the birth of Solomon. God kept his covenant with David, despite his sins.

There is literally nothing in Scripture to support the notion that the punishment for David's sins went beyond David's life.

 

[wizardwatson]

Yes, Kind David received earthly punishments for his sin. Yet, God spared his life, despite the law stating he should receive the death penalty for his murder of Uriah. God also blessed him after these sins with the birth of Solomon. God kept his covenant with David, despite his sins.

There is literally nothing in Scripture to support the notion that the punishment for David's sins went beyond David's life.

Agreed.

My statement did conflate David's personal sin with that of the Davidic dynasty whose "tent has fallen" and is yet to be restored. While 2 Samuel 2:11 could be loosely interpreted as extending beyond his death, I will concede that the interpretation is a stretch and there isn't consensus.

With that resolved, what exactly was the point of highlighting my statement about Trump and comparing it to David's sin? My point about David being punished is that God does not approve of sin, because it seemed like you were trying to point out that God approves of Trump perhaps, and that his sin is a minor thing.

Yes, only God knows people's hearts, I don't. Therefore, I have nothing to look at except the fruit of the tree (their actions). I can't go around as a Christian giving every lying self-proclaimed Christian a pass because, "well, I don't know their heart".

These tropes are very common ways people want to dismiss Christianity from the discussion and move on to their worldly views and idolatry:

1. You shouldn't judge.
2. You don't know people's hearts.

If we were to follow these principles to the letter as core Christian tenants, we'd have to shut up about the gospel forever. Cuz, you know, everyone might be Jesus in their heart, and if I'm wrong, I'll make God angry and he'll kill me.

 

[wizardwatson]

... and wizard is here trying to get through to you.

Unfortunately, you're the worst kind of poison server, self-abaser and sinner of all -- a Pharisee.

Don't tell me judge not lest ye be judged. You've judged me to be a godless leftist traitor, and worse, just for pointing out that Trump doesn't keep promises. I'm just proving to you that Jesus was right, and maybe you should listen to Him.

Pointing out that He criticized your behavior doesn't make you righteous when you're pointing the finger at another. It makes you the worst kind of hypocrite.

What's funny, or ironic, is that few seem to understand the reason why Jesus said "don't judge". It is really to protect the uninitiated. By the standard you judge, you will be judged. Before you start correcting others, correct yourself (i.e. speck vs. plank).

In other words, it's Jesus teaching us to shut our mouths and open our ears. But these blind fools want to use these verses satanically telling Christians to shut their mouths.

I always like to remind people of the significance of Matthew 7:2 where it is stated most clearly:

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Now, this isn't really a command about "how to preach the gospel" as worldly folk would suppose. This is a command addressing our worldly judgements. When I talk about sin and repentance and God's mercy, I definitely want to be judged according to THAT standard.

A good topical example would be supposed Christians claiming that "just war" against the Palestinians is justified even to the extent of exterminating every last human in Gaza as retribution for Oct. 7th. By this standard of judgement, every last American should be killed many times over for the crimes of our country.

This is the danger of being a blind hypocrite that Christians are trying to warn their fellow man about. God doesn't need His law to condemn you. He doesn't need to check your browser history or your spiritual worldview. He just has to read the transcript of your life back to you and point out where you've hated and condemned your brothers and sisters.

 

[familydog]

Agreed.

My statement did conflate David's personal sin with that of the Davidic dynasty whose "tent has fallen" and is yet to be restored. While 2 Samuel 2:11 could be loosely interpreted as extending beyond his death, I will concede that the interpretation is a stretch and there isn't consensus.

With that resolved, what exactly was the point of highlighting my statement about Trump and comparing it to David's sin? My point about David being punished is that God does not approve of sin, because it seemed like you were trying to point out that God approves of Trump perhaps, and that his sin is a minor thing.

Yes, only God knows people's hearts, I don't. Therefore, I have nothing to look at except the fruit of the tree (their actions). I can't go around as a Christian giving every lying self-proclaimed Christian a pass because, "well, I don't know their heart".

These tropes are very common ways people want to dismiss Christianity from the discussion and move on to their worldly views and idolatry:

1. You shouldn't judge.
2. You don't know people's hearts.

If we were to follow these principles to the letter as core Christian tenants, we'd have to shut up about the gospel forever. Cuz, you know, everyone might be Jesus in their heart, and if I'm wrong, I'll make God angry and he'll kill me.

Christians love to judge Trump for all of his sinful behavior, but we ought not reject a leader simply based on his sins. Hence, my David reference. God spared David's life despite his sins and Trump believes God spared his life on July 13, 2024. Does God hold Trump with the same regards as David? That's not for us to know, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

And look, we, as Christians, are command to be kind, but not nice. We, as Christians, are commanded to use righteous judgement, context depending. With that said, even IF we judge Trump as a non-Christian, that doesn't necessarily mean God couldn't/isn't using him for good.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Just a wild guess but I'd expect that the impetus behind separation of Church and State was to make sure that all the Christian faiths were represented equally.

It wasn't an invitation for Muslims Jews and Hindoos to invade and overtake our culture

Well, you had the Catholic Church with a Pope, and Church of England with a Monarch, so the impetus was very much to avoid authoritarian religious rule.

"Christian nation" and "Judeo-Christian" are modern terms meant to break away from how the nation was really founded, as a multidenominational Protestant nation.

It was about individual beliefs, as decentralized as possible.