Abraham Lincoln: Tyrant

Travlyr said:
You have to be either lying or kidding, right? Are you seriously claiming that you, if you were to be honest, would not like to own a slave? Be honest. If you could own another human being to do your work for you and do anything you demanded, without worry from legal battles, you would not want to own a slave? Personally, I find that owning at least two slaves would be good. A big smart strong male slave to do all my work... and a very lovely female slave to do my cooking and attend to my desires. That would be "LIBERATING!!!"
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yea, and you could be the town gimp...
 
What the hell's going on in here?

Oh, this...

Carry on.

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Lincoln was not a tyrant. When a tyrant conquers territory, he makes it into a province and then makes it pay tribute. The South was actually given voting rights in the federal government, including votes in the senate, house, and electoral college.

Historical examples of how tyrants operate include the Roman empire that added many provinces, and Genghis Khan. Khan did not allow provinces any voting rights.
 
Travlyr said:
No he wasn't. He was a strict constitutionalist. If he had not had to fight a war of Southern aggression, then he would have strictly obeyed the Constitution.
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Marxist in the most original, benign, good intentioned sense. They were contemporaries. Proto-Marxist might be a better term.

But when one looks at the results, there are disturbing similarities to later Marxist leaders. For instance, taking on expanded powers, and killing many citizens of the nations that they led. Future Marxists held power until they died. Circumstances didn't allow us to know for sure if Lincoln would have held on to or expanded his power if he had lived longer.

His Marxist connection also gives us insight into the vast "worship" that Lincoln garners from the left and neo-conservatives. Marxists and Trotskyites have a connection to Lincoln, either through full knowledge of the Marxist history, or through group-think and modern propaganda.

That's my take from limited study. It could be wrong. I have no idea if DiLorenzo or other Mises scholars have addressed this.
 
Was the civil war waged over slavery? I don't know. I do feel, however, that an end to slavery is why the common northerner fought. Shit, I'd fight that battle... even today. If you enslave a man, what guarantee do I have that you would not enslave me?
 
bolil said:
Was the civil war waged over slavery? I don't know. I do feel, however, that an end to slavery is why the common northerner fought. Shit, I'd fight that battle... even today. If you enslave a man, what guarantee do I have that you would not enslave me?
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Saps think that they go to war for 'freedom' nowadays too. It's the same formula to dupe the population into committing mass murder that it always has been on behalf of the state. The Lincoln cult plays right into this nonsense that we should all be fighting tooth and nail against.
 
Travlyr said:
I see the head cheerleader has arrived. I expect another -rep soon.
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Why did lincoln had to do it by amassing power and shredding the constitution? why not just buy up all the slaves and free them? Why did he have to create the modern powerful executive?
 
bolil said:
Was the civil war waged over slavery? I don't know. I do feel, however, that an end to slavery is why the common northerner fought. Shit, I'd fight that battle... even today. If you enslave a man, what guarantee do I have that you would not enslave me?
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I'm not so sure that is why the common Northerner fought the Civil War since the North also had a draft. Both sides had to have a draft for this war to occur. It seems to me most people in the South and North did not want anything to do with this war, but were forced under the threat of imprisonment if they didn't report for duty.
 
RickyJ said:
I'm not so sure that is why the common Northerner fought the Civil War since the North also had a draft. Both sides had to have a draft for this war to occur. It seems to me most people in the South and North did not want anything to do with this war, but were forced under the threat of imprisonment if they didn't report for duty.
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Meh, you own slaves? You ain't got a friend in me. Draft or not, if circumstances allow I'll happily stick a slaver with something sharp. The south should have freed the slaves, and then fired on fort sumter. This, of course, is a honest though emotivist reaction and being said I don't see how slavery has ended in this country yet, beyond nominally that is. Don't pay uncle sam, he takes your freedom.

I used to be Grey to the bone, but slavery? Really? The real shame is the men in grey fought for their rights and for, perhaps incidentally, the elite of their societies slaves. The men in blue, some were drafted, some fought for pay and food, and some certainly fought thinking they were fighting the scourge of slavery.
 
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bolil said:
Meh, you own slaves? You ain't got a friend in me. Draft or not, if circumstances allow I'll happily stick a slaver with something sharp. The south should have freed the slaves, and then fired on fort sumter. This, of course, is a honest though emotivist reaction and being said I don't see how slavery has ended in this country yet, beyond nominally that is. Don't pay uncle sam, he takes your freedom.

I used to be Grey to the bone, but slavery? Really? The real shame is the men in grey fought for their rights and not for the elite of their societies slaves. The men in blue, some were drafted, some fought for pay and food, and some certainly fought thinking they were fighting the scourge of slavery.
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Who gives a shit what the aggressive invading murderers thought they were fighting for? The slaves would have been freed regardless of the unnecessary bloodshed just like they were in any other country. Stop focusing on the nonsense and focus instead on the undeniable historical fact of Lincoln being a racist Constitution destroying war criminal.

Now here's Ron Paul standing behind a rebel flag triumphing the cause of the Confederate south. Watch and learn, novices:

 
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sgt150 said:
Who gives a shit what the aggressive invading murderers thought they were fighting for? The slaves would have been freed regardless of the unnecessary bloodshed just like they were in any other country. Stop focusing on the nonsense and focus instead on the undeniable historical fact of Lincoln being a racist Constitution destroying war criminal.

Now here's Ron Paul standing behind a rebel flag triumphing the cause of the Confederate south. Watch and learn, novices:

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Im not justifying the war of northern aggression, but If I had the chance to kill a slaver... AGAIN, I understand that most SOuthern soldiers and citizens DID NOT own slaves,... I would. Perhaps my boast will be tested on day. I don't give a fuck for lincoln, perhaps i got off topic. Slavery... that shit will rile me up any day. Maybe because I feel like a slave. Intellectually free, but bound to service for pretend money.
 
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"No army can stop an idea whose time has come."

Victor Hugo

In 1860, the time had come to get rid of slavery.
 
If the civil war hadn't happened, if Lincoln was never elected......when would slavery have ended in America?
 
It does seem to me, than any claims of liberty by a society that owns slaves... well... fucking ridiculous. Rights are individual things, States "rights" cannot trump individual rights. States are collections of individuals, correct?
 
The fact that the United States ever tolerated slavery is sickening. Shouldn't throw the babies of jefferson, washing, et al out with the bath water though.
 
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