A Revolution Betrayed?

[Ron Paul Fan]

The main problem is that Paul's message just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. Libertarianism is dead. Paul did terribly in most places and may even lose his house seat. You can't just go up there and say that the solution is to do the exact opposite of what we've been doing for the past 70-80 years. That's what Paul tried to do. Paul wanted to stop giving aid to other countries, repeal all of our peace and trade treaties, take our troops out, abolish FDR's New Deal, abolish the IRS, abolish the Fed. These are things that have been around for a long time while the U.S. has prospered. Do you think people are gonna vote for the guy who says that if we do the opposite of the conventional wisdom for the past 70-80 years that everything will be ok? NO! The other main problem was the crazy 9/11 truthers and scum white supremacists supporting the campaign, and the amateur campaign staff.

 

[Signzit]

bobbyw24, i have read many threads started by YOU and don't care for you or your apparent motives. Every post I have read, by you smacks of divisiveness. You are a net loss here in the group IMO; your posts are demoralizing and many times, IMO almost anti-Ron Paul.

I do not like you, nor do i trust your motives within the group. I have you at arm's length pal and suggest others do the same. I think you are fooling far fewer people than you think!

 

[CUnknown]

It's unfair to tell the non-GOP loyalists among us to go away, and that they're not really a part of this movement. Some of us have worked hard for Ron Paul and believe in him as much as anyone else. Trevor himself, if I'm not mistaken, is no GOP party loyalist.

You want the movement to shrink, is that what you're saying?

You say, 3rd parties are ineffective, that I should go back to whichever one I came from.

Let me ask -- what has the economic conservative/Ron Paul wing of the Republican party done lately? How have they influenced the Republican party in the past...oh I don't know... 30 years? You have influenced the rhetoric of the party, but not the substance. The Republican party has been ignoring you for decades now, except when it's time to give speeches.

The neo-cons are in firm control of the party still. Hence McCain in first place. Hence Romney in 2nd place. The religious right is also in a position of influence in the party, although not as much so as the neo-cons. Hence Huckabee in 3rd place. It's amazing that Ron Paul has done as well as he has in the primaries, but still he is a distant 4th (Romney at any time could un-suspend his campaign and be beating Paul as far as delegates).

So, if I go back to my ineffective 3rd party, you go back to your ineffective wing of the Republican party, and we will both be ineffective seperately.

I think that, together, we can be an effective force in the Libertarian party. And even if that is wishful thinking, I would still rather be ineffective together rather than ineffective seperately.

Think about it?

 

[coffeewithchess]

coffeewithchess,

I met Ron and Carol before half of you even heard of them.

I'm not calling you a liar, what was in bold was written in a message, not by me. So I was asking for clarification. Also, I've been supporting RP since before he declared his campaign and I was watching him on CSPAN the morning he did, not that it matters. Just because you met Ron and Carol doesn't mean anything. I've met Ron twice, that doesn't make me special or a close friend. Meeting somebody doesn't have any weight. Also, posting vague threads about "insiders" without stating any facts is like many posts by ghemminger that have no substance.

 

[seeker1]

Hmmmm.

bobbyw24, i have read many threads started by YOU and don't care for you or your apparent motives. Every post I have read, by you smacks of divisiveness. You are a net loss here in the group IMO; your posts are demoralizing and many times, IMO almost anti-Ron Paul.

I do not like you, nor do i trust your motives within the group. I have you at arm's length pal and suggest others do the same. I think you are fooling far fewer people than you think!

I believe thats cause there's far fewer people here.

 

[Malakai0]

Ron has always said he wasn't going to run 3rd party. Been there done that, he knows hes more effective in congress than sitting at home in texas, and that's where he will end up if he abandoned the republican party and his congressional seat.

I think that article and most of you are dead wrong, especially those who are disappointed in Paul. No offense but I don't recall any of you spending your entire lives fighting an endless fight for the best (but most understood and hated) ideal we have in government, ie the constitution and a literal interpretation thereof, also known as libertarianism.

So yeah, get off your high horse and do something yourself if your so upset. Blogging and bitching and blaming everyone else for why you think we failed (anyone who expected RP to just sweep the nomination on super tuesday was living in fantasyland anyway).

The fact is we haven't failed at all, we showed the powers that be that they will have to work extra hard to keep us suppressed in the future. We showed them we can, independent of the powers that be, finance and promote a candidate without the help of the MSM, and get him to 3rd place out of a field starting with 12.

Ron with our support can still take our ideals and some delegates to a convention where the frontrunner is pretty well hated by powerful groups inside the shrinking GOP. Anything can happen.

The biggest roadblock to any chance of success is the naysaying and negativity from the bloggers and posters around the RP online community. You guys are destroying our enthusiasm which was our secret weapon. You guys let the media propaganda war get to you and kill your spirits. People in the grassroots are still talking about the newsletters, I mean come on we knew about these and that the whole thing was bullshit months in advance. The first time they dropped the newsletter bomb we all just ignored it and it went away, but the second time everyone got all flustered. We knew it was coming, and when it hit everyone got really bummed and the enthusiasm dropped. Combined with (expect but not what people wanted) the results from the early primaries, pretty much nailed a large part of the community; at least with much of the vocal bloggers/forum posters.


All IMO no hate

 

[seeker1]

Question?

Ron has always said he wasn't going to run 3rd party. Been there done that, he knows hes more effective in congress than sitting at home in texas, and that's where he will end up if he abandoned the republican party and his congressional seat.

I think that article and most of you are dead wrong, especially those who are disappointed in Paul. No offense but I don't recall any of you spending your entire lives fighting an endless fight for the best (but most understood and hated) ideal we have in government, ie the constitution and a literal interpretation thereof, also known as libertarianism.

So yeah, get off your high horse and do something yourself if your so upset. Blogging and bitching and blaming everyone else for why you think we failed (anyone who expected RP to just sweep the nomination on super tuesday was living in fantasyland anyway).

The fact is we haven't failed at all, we showed the powers that be that they will have to work extra hard to keep us suppressed in the future. We showed them we can, independent of the powers that be, finance and promote a candidate without the help of the MSM, and get him to 3rd place out of a field starting with 12.

Ron with our support can still take our ideals and some delegates to a convention where the frontrunner is pretty well hated by powerful groups inside the shrinking GOP. Anything can happen.

The biggest roadblock to any chance of success is the naysaying and negativity from the bloggers and posters around the RP online community. You guys are destroying our enthusiasm which was our secret weapon. Thanks much.


All IMO no hate

Did you sign on to elect Ron Paul to be President or to get out the message? Or to reform the Republicrat party?

Just curious.

 

[Thunderbolt]

coffeewithchess,

Calling me a liar on an open forum is libel. Are you ready to defend it?

I said in that post that Carol told me that RP would be addressing the situation of the misintepretation of the "Trotsky Letter" in a video by Tuesday. That is exactly what subsequently happened. Or, are you saying I made the video up too?

Carol did not "contact me"...I contacted her and asked about the "Trotsky Letter" and she was kind enough to respond.

This is the essence of my contention that we have been infiltrated. Nobody but an infiltrator would put out such a letter quoting Trotsky and saying we had "0% chance" the night before three major elections. That letter cost us an outright win in WA. That would have put us back in the news and inline for more upsets in the primaries/caucuses to follow. Somebody knew what effect such a letter would have on the grassroots. The question is WHO??

My thread exposed the infiltration and gave the grassroots renewed hope.

Get over it. Some people are apparently jeolous that CP would write back. Big woops! I am one of the earliest supporters (coordinator of meetup group #17-- what, of almost 1800 of them now?)

I met Ron and Carol before half of you even heard of them.

Mr. Martin,
You wrote a post insinuating that Ron Paul did not write the email dated 2/8/08. Are you saying that is not true?

You write that your thread exposed the infiltration and gave the grassroots renewed hope. If so, then why is that thread deleted? Or can you give me a link to it.

What infiltration was exposed? Ron Paul certainly did not say that anyone had stolen his account, sent out an email without his knowledge and in fact, it remains on the front page of his website. So, you are here to say that you exposed infiltration into his campaign of some supposed ghost writer of that letter that remains on the front page of his website?

You wrote that you gave the grassroots new hope with supposed expose of yours: how is it hope if you are making it all up? Or are we supposed to believe you, that an infiltrator did write the letter and Ron Paul is too daft to remove it from his website? If so, then you are effectively calling Ron Paul one of the dumbest men on earth - just how do you think that is helpful?

Finally, you write that no one but an infiltrator would have written that letter. Well, Ron Paul has not denied writing it, it is still on his webpage, so I will have to assume that Ron Paul either wrote it or is happy with its contents. By making the statement that no one but an infiltrator would have written that letter, you sir, are calling Ron Paul an infiltrator.

Moreover, you have implied in your post that you took a letter that Carol Paul wrote you, interpreted it the way you thought it should be interpreted and then tried to get the entire grassroots to believe your interpretation of that letter.

Well, Ron Paul did not come out and deny writing that letter as you implied and outright stated in that other thread and here.

 

[bobbyw24]

Signzit: sorry you feel that way about my posts. I simply post what I get from daily Google updates. I post a lot of positive stuff from Nolan Chart. I agree with only about 50% of the articles that I post. I just put them here for people to consider.

I was hoping that Ron Paul would run as a third party or independent candidate but was disappointed that he will not do so. I posted this latest article and many people wrote saying that they feel the same way.

Ron Paul values diversity of ideas and you need not dislike people with whom you disagree or never met just because of the stuff they post on some forum.

We are all here--most of us--since we support Dr. Paul's message and all that we do here should be to promote his message of liberty.

I have been a supporter of Ron Paul since the late 80s and will continue to be one notwithstanding some of the inane responses I get from my postings.

Now let's get back to the work at hand.

 

[bobbyw24]

Here is one of my recent positive posts with which I agree completely. I will attempt to post only positive items here. I agree we could all use more positive words and encouragement here as we try to determine what our next steps for this movement are.


A Miraculous Success

I have been voting for the freedom candidate since 1980 (Ed Clark), including Ron Paul in ‘88. They all lost. And I guess having my candidate lose every year was not ENOUGH loss for me so I ran for congress myself on the Libertarian ticket. And lost. Hahahaha! Did you really think we could just waltz in and take over the country? Without a fight? Sorry, but turning a ship 180 degrees takes time, especially when lots of powerful people are fighting you.

For those of us who have been fighting for liberty for more than the last few months, Ron Paul’s 2008 campaign is a miraculous success. Almost overnight, a powerful Nationwide organization has formed around Ron Paul. It very well may propel him to the White House, but even if it doesn’t, the fight for liberty has been advanced dramatically - beyond anything I thought would happen in my lifetime - and will continue to grow and spread. We have reached critical mass now.

Our job is to educate our countrymen. Right now the best vehicle for that is the Ron Paul 2008 campaign. Even if RP wins the White House in 08, we will STILL have a huge job to do. In fact, our job will be the same either way - to educate our community and elect freedom-loving representatives. Having RP in the “bully pulpit” of the Presidency will be an enormous aid, but we will still be in a battle on the streets.

Quit if you must. Maybe it doesn’t matter much to you. Maybe this was just a lark for you. Maybe you don’t have children. Maybe you don’t care about our posterity. Maybe you will not be ashamed at handing over a bankrupt dictatorship to the next generation.

As for me, there is no place to go but onward with the fight.

 

[kyleAF]

*Exactly*.

We all got in this mess because we somehow believed that POTUS is the leader.

WRONG!

POTUS is a public servant! So are the Senators and Representatives.


You should go over to that thread about what Alaskans did to get their resolution passed. And don't forget Heather_in_WI's anti-McCain resolution. Those are what we can do, and the more delegates we send to National Convention, regardless of who is the nominee, we get to dictate the platform and basically chain the nominee to Paul's message.

This is how Paul will win.

Yep. Every delegate at the convention gets 5 minutes of speaking time, under U.S. House of Representatives rules!!! Imagine if we send 150 delegates to the convention and everyone "yields their time" (HoR rules) to Dr. Paul...

He could deliver a treatise for hours to a captive GOP leadership audience!!!

Check the rules... you'll see I'm right.

(assuming we don't have a bunch of "truthers" stand up and start giving 5 minute spiels on WTC tower 7 )

 

[louisiana4liberty]

I think RP is looking out for the future of RP "Republicans" who will be running for offices all over the nation. This is where the next key successes will be found. RP lit the flame and his supporters will carry the torches to Congress. Do you really think RP "Independents" would have a better chance getting elected to Congress? I firmly believe we can take back the party a lot more easily as Republicans.

There are many seats that stand to be filled in upcoming Congressional elections.

 

[CaliforniaGold]

I have been gone for a few days....and i come back to this?

I just watched Ron Paul's campaign update video. He doesn't sound like a man about to give up. He sounds like a man with a plan that he WAS keeping quiet. He said very cleary that a surprise could occur at the convention. He said clearly that there were two other candidates that information might come out about. Have you watched Survivor? Ever heard of flying under the radar? He is committed to winning and I am committed to believing he will do so.

He is playing chess while the other candidates are playing checkers...

Shhhh, let's all watch, listen and learn....the master chess player is laying out a strategy...

I hear the drums of victory in the future.

 

[WilliamC]

WilliamC said:


So are you saying that we shouldn't vote for them because they have no chance to win? Isn't that what everyone says about Ron Paul? I don't think that is a good reason not to vote your conscience.

Besides, as other have pointed out, many of the people in this movement aren't Republicans. Some say "We should just take over local GOPs" but that doesn't work for the independents and democrats in this movement. Personally, I'd never set foot anywhere near my local GOP.

Let's take this movement where everyone in the movement can follow. That's third party, Libertarian or Constitution. The most important thing is that we stick together, and all vote as one so our influence can be felt.

I vote for third party candidates when there is no good Republican choice, which is often.

However I will be focusing my efforts on my local Republican Party since that is where Ron Paul has chosen to stay.

Of course others may not wish to stay in the Republican Party, and I certainly am not trying to say that someone who doesn't is somehow betraying the cause of the Constitution. Restoring it to once more being the supreme law of the land that is actually obeyed by our Federal politicians is going to be a long term struggle that needs to be fought on many fronts.

Again, good luck in getting any traction with third parties. If they do manage to start winning elections then I may reconsider working through them. But for now I will stay in the Republican Party as Ron Paul is doing. In my part of the Country I feel this is where I can do the most good in promoting individual rights and fighting collectivism.

 

[Rhys]

The people who hijacked Ron Paul are the ones who said he betrayed us by staying republican. Ron Paul never ever ever ever said he wanted anything but. You just couldn't hear him anymore than the media could.

 

[me3]

The main problem is that Paul's message just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. Libertarianism is dead. Paul did terribly in most places and may even lose his house seat. You can't just go up there and say that the solution is to do the exact opposite of what we've been doing for the past 70-80 years. That's what Paul tried to do. Paul wanted to stop giving aid to other countries, repeal all of our peace and trade treaties, take our troops out, abolish FDR's New Deal, abolish the IRS, abolish the Fed. These are things that have been around for a long time while the U.S. has prospered. Do you think people are gonna vote for the guy who says that if we do the opposite of the conventional wisdom for the past 70-80 years that everything will be ok? NO! The other main problem was the crazy 9/11 truthers and scum white supremacists supporting the campaign, and the amateur campaign staff.

Geez, I never thought YOU would sound so defeated.

Chin up friend.

 

[fedup100]

This is looking more and more like the Ross Perot debacle. I believe Ron Paul has been threatened. He put on the brakes instantly and without warning, just like Perot.

I think his House seat is at risk and I believe his opponent is bought and paid for by the elite. He has smeared him with his Presidential platform? Now if you think this is odd, not at all. They will throw that race to Peden in order to finish Paul's Presidential run. Sean Hannity will jump all over it when they can report that Pauls home constituents didn't even buy his get out of irag stance. Hope they have a plan to monitor that race with a magnifying glass.

Paul is afraid to run third party.

 

[beachmaster]

This is looking more and more like the Ross Perot debacle. I believe Ron Paul has been threatened. He put on the brakes instantly and without warning, just like Perot.

I think his House seat is at risk and I believe his opponent is bought and paid for by the elite. He has smeared him with his Presidential platform? Now if you think this is odd, not at all. They will throw that race to Peden in order to finish Paul's Presidential run. Sean Hannity will jump all over it when they can report that Pauls home constituents didn't even buy his get out of irag stance. Hope they have a plan to monitor that race with a magnifying glass.

Paul is afraid to run third party.

I think he's afraid for his family more than anything. He's got a lot of family.

 

[WilliamC]

I think he's afraid for his family more than anything. He's got a lot of family.

I've had that same fear for a long time now.

 

[fedup100]

By the way, I posted my rant which was very similar to this but in broken East Texas slang. I was beat up and called every name in the book. I guess my Texas version wasn't as eloquent.

I do not always agree with Mr. Martin. This time though I must tell all of you, we have no more time. Hope for America was more than just a slogan and in two years from now you will be moaning in agony as you witness the end of this wonderful Country.