A Revolution Betrayed?

[The Good Doctor]

If we are not locked up for our beliefs in the Halliburton built FEMA camps first.

PS That's the sarcastic emoticon!

It leaves us on our knees, praying that the Good Lord will spare this nation during four more years of a godless, totalitarian, bloodthirsty leadership without WWIII breaking out against us so that we can try to find a reasonable facsimile of Dr. Paul to rally behind in 2012.

 

[AlbemarleNC0003]

The question then is whether we can keep the support together and active once the presidential campaign begins to fade out of mind....

There are ideas around to start a new forum dedicated to this purpose. Anyone have any real information?

 

[Shink]

The infiltrators will be coming out with a press release any moment. And I am sure they will be putting many videos about their activities up on YouTube shortly as well.

Don't blow smoke up our asses, Steve. I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying if what you put in your post comes to pass, you're making a fool of yourself.

People please click this link. My post was kinda big, and I'm sure won't be read unless I ask for people to click the quote arrow below:

A few things:

 

[ConstitutionGal]

There are ideas around to start a new forum dedicated to this purpose. Anyone have any real information?

I think that's what the LibertyForest (see the upper right hand side of this forum) was started for. The problem that I'm seeing is that as the presidential campaign begins to fade, less and less people will stay active or engaged. People will gradually get back to 'business as usual' pretty soon and I'm afraid what has been begun by Dr. Paul will gradually fade away. What we need to be doing is ACTIVELY recruiting, if necessary, people to run for every Congressional seat across the country! Some of them are bound to get elected this cycle and they can then help pave the way for the next crop in two years.

 

[Jon4Ron]

Nearly $17.5 million spent in the 4th quarter and not a single NATIONAL tv ad, that is ridiculous.

Yes I totaly agree. In a television media centric society you wont get very far, especially when the MSM wont do you any favors. This is exactly why most of America says "RON Who?" I don't know who kept this from happening but who ever it was either thought the Internet was bigger and more powerful then it is or they are clueless in Marketing 101. If they would have started national adds prior to Iowa and NH donations we would be dwarfing the previous records and we would be kicking some primary ass right now. You all can argue until the Cows come home but IMHO this is the very core of the issue.

 

[R_Harris]

I'll certainly not scream at your for pointing out the obvious. Dr. Paul was our Pied Piper but sadly, I don't think he ever REALLY believed he could win and this is becoming more apparent every day. Remember when many on these forums were arm-chair quarterbacking after media appearances where Dr. Paul made comments about being surprised at the support he was getting? Folks here kept commenting that those statements didn't look good? They may not have looked good but they were Dr. Paul being honest. I don't think he ever envisioned getting past the first couple of debates - being about to get his message out there for just a few times to the masses. It snowballed on him I don't think either he or HQ were prepared enough for it to actually run a professional national campaign. People here kept waiting for some 'secret strategy' to come to materialize and, it never did because there wasn't one. Just look at all the instances where HQ basically told the grassroots to 'stand down' and then HQ completely dropped the ball resulting in nothing getting done! I don't believe it was saboutage, I think it was sheer incompetance on the part of folks who had no experience with running a national campaign.

While most of us believe wholeheartedly that Dr. Paul is the perfect candidate, his campaign apparatus has not been up to par and has cost us dearly along with the media blackout (this was partly due to HQ dropping the ball on interviews and failing to send out press releases in a timely manner).

The lack of good showings is both harming our morale as well as lessening the chances of garnering new supporters (as is evidenced by these forums as well as donation levels). Granted, we've had good showings that the media has ignored but, where were the press releases from HQ about them? Oh, they sent out emails to the grassroots but, we weren't the ones that needed to hear about them (most of us were here on the forums watching the results as they came in!). The masses needed to hear about them to grow the movement. Ads, if necessary, should have been quickly launched talking about those 2nd place wins so people might have begun to see Dr. Paul as a 'viable' candidate and alternative to the neocon, flip-flopping 'front-runners'. People will NOT vote for someone that they believe has no chance of winning.

I somehow don't see Dr. Paul being willing to undertake a national run again so, I reiterate, where does that leave us?

Post of the day.

I am convinced beyond any doubt that Ron was running this campaign as an "educational" campaign and nothing more. When fundraising and support swelled, Snyder, Benton, and the other "leaders" of the campaign had no clue what to do.

That this entire campaign was poorly planned and executed cannot be doubted by any honest, objective observers. Do you really believe the campaign when they tell you otherwise? What would you expect them to say?

Just look at the debates. While people on this forum were saying "he's great!", I was not. I actually thought he came across very poorly, except perhaps for the first two debates. He tended to ramble aimlessly, he kept repeating the same mantras, and he had little or no comeback when the others ganged up on him.

I think the May debate, the one with the infamous Rudy exchanged, should have told us all we needed to know. As a poster stated, it is true - the average GOP primary voter is a war hawk, does not like Ron Paul and thinks that he is a kook, and is woefully misinformed on a number of issues. The debate formats could not possibly help Ron overcome and correct all of these deficiencies, yet unfortunately they were his largest medium to get his message across.

I agree with the poster above that the problems facing this country are overwhelming and cannot be fixed without serious pain. The only thing Ron would not have done is declare a national emergency or martial law.

I don't think Huckabee or Obama would do such a thing (they might though), but I have no doubt that Hillary and McCain have the personalities to enact such authoritarian measures in a heartbeat. THAT is what really scares me.

 

[SteveMartin]

Don't blow smoke up our asses, Steve. I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying if what you put in your post comes to pass, you're making a fool of yourself.

You think they would be that stupid? You will never hear from them. That post was 100% sarcasm.

 

[WilliamC]

The GOP is neither friend nor ally in this struggle for our constitution. It serves as our greatest stumbling block.

It is also our best chance at a vehicle for promoting liberty on the National level.

Good luck to all of you who wish to try and get any respect or attention to the Libertarian or the Constitution Party. Their platforms may be more closely aligned with the Constitution but they have essentially zero chance of enacting them because of the way the cards are stacked.

I don't like the two-party system, but it's the reality of the political reality in the USA today. The only good part of this is that the Republican party is very weak, and will probably get weaker. If even 100,000 new members who believe in the Constitution like Ron Paul does join and get active we can take it back from the evangelicals and the neocons. Then we can get Representatives and Senators and Governors elected who will put their oath of office to the US Constitution ahead of their personal desire for power.

 

[tstorey]

Just a quick word on Raimondo and his view

F U Raimondo.

You, the self appointed commentator of the revolutionary movement.

You couldn't shine Dr. Paul's shoes.

You, Mr. Raimondo have done ZERO for the anti war movement .

The anti war movement in this country is fully marginalized, fully discredited and so completely infiltrated by agents for the status quo they can't even agree on what day it is.

A five page synopsis on Dr. Paul?

You have it all figured out, Mr. Raimondo?

I have two draft aged children and friends with children who are IN WARS, Justin.

What have you done from your position as a "major commentator" for the anti war anti establishment movement in the US? I say nothing, but stir the pot.

Dr. Paul has done more in 11 months than anyone since Andrew GD Jackson and you have the nut to call him out?

On what?

10 terms in congress getting absolutely pissed on 24 hours a day fighting for your freedom so you can post your writing at your so called anti war sites?

You can't event stand in the same room as Dr. Paul let alone have your writing posted on Dr. Paul's site.

I disagree with this Raimondo person. I have been in the anti war movement since 196 f%$ing 8.

This is not a presidential campaign. This is all there is. If you need to win a presidential campaign then you have not been paying attention.

I don't need to apologize for Dr. Paul.

He did not want to run.

He did it to help all of us.

He did it to help those kids getting killed every damn day in he middle east.

He did it because because he is a decent man who has the best interest of all at heart.

He didn't do it to make some "follower" happy about being with the winner of some fixed screw job election, he did it to help you. You pay him back this way?

Knock yourself out.

Just think what you are going to tell your children when they ask you about this 20 years from now?

I come here and get told what to do by Justin Raimondo?

No thanks.

 

[MusoSpuso]

So by your logic here he should have never ran in the first place. You are not making much sense with this.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion but let me clarify if it's confusing:

Ron Paul has sparked a revolution. Thus it was a good thing that he is running and continues to do so up to the convention.

However, breaking off from the Republican party and losing his congressional seat is not going to help the revolution as much as staying in congress and continuing to bring the fight to washington.

To summarize my point: a 3rd party run is a dead end (more or less). Continuing the fight in congress IF he doesn't get the GOP nomination has much more potential to help the revolution.

 

[AJ Antimony]

People, you have to look at this through Ron's eyes. Remember HE RAN THIRD PARTY in 1988. Where did it get him? No where. He didn't get really any votes and most importantly he didn't get any exposure being a third party candidate.

In 2008 he, like a model American, is showing us that he has learned from his mistakes. This is why he's running as a Republican. He knows as a mainstream party, he will get at least SOME media exposure, and most importantly, would be able to participate in the televised debates. I dont know about you guys, but I haven't ever seen a third party debate on national (hell, local) television. Because of Ron's stubbornness with the Republican party, he has garnered a LOT more votes in these primaries than he did in his 1988 general election.

Something else you people HAVE TO remember is that the Republican nominee is named in SEPTEMBER! That means, despite what the media will tell us, that John McCain will NOT be the Republican nominee by the end of the month or the end of the spring. If McCain wins the nomination, he will do so at the convention, that's what it's for. Eight months of the media pounding the public with Obama/Clinton vs. McCain isn't only going to make Americans sick of them, but it buys plenty of time for SOME scandal to come out and ruin McCain's presidential bid. Stranger things have happened.

With this said, I do agree Congressman Paul should run third party... JUST NOT RIGHT NOW! Let the man have eight more months as a Republican so he can get his .0001% media exposure rather than a definite 0% if he went third party. Let the man fight this battle all the way until the September convention. THEN, in September, if McCain is named the nominee, Paul should go third party or start a write-in campaign.

Statistically speaking, John McCain will likely win the nomination, there will be more Ron Paul supporters in September than there are now, and the anti-McCain movement will grow. With this in mind, ask yourself, is right now REALLY the best time to launch a third party run?

 

[coffeewithchess]

That this entire campaign was poorly planned and executed cannot be doubted by any honest, objective observers. Do you really believe the campaign when they tell you otherwise? What would you expect them to say?

Just look at the debates. While people on this forum were saying "he's great!", I was not. I actually thought he came across very poorly, except perhaps for the first two debates. He tended to ramble aimlessly, he kept repeating the same mantras, and he had little or no comeback when the others ganged up on him.

Yea, and I think that RP should step up to the plate and fire somebody or somebody in the campaign should voluntarily step aside out of decency. The fact this didn't happen after the New Hampshire primary is still amazing to me. More than $20 million has been spent in total on this campaign and again there has not been ONE national tv ad. The majority of the tv ads the campaign produced were horrible quality and looked like they were from the early 90s.
Again, http://youtube.com/watch?v=hSjdG3LjQZ8

 

[Shink]

You think they would be that stupid? You will never hear from them. That post was 100% sarcasm.

So what do you have to support your 'we were infiltrated' claim? I know about COINTELPRO and all that stuff, but I would like to know what you know, and what supposedly happened?

 

[literatim]

The Republican Party is filled with paleo-conservatives. Mark Sanford, Sarah Palin, all those Republican officials that voted for Ron in the Montana caucus. The problem is that htey lost their voice, their base became quiet and with it they lost clout.

Ron Paul understand the most likely way to fix America, many here do not. You can cast aside your delusion of grandeur of Ron Paul running 3rd party and winning. 3rd parties are dead in the water and they always will be until one of the two parties decides to let them play.

 

[CUnknown]

WilliamC said:

Good luck to all of you who wish to try and get any respect or attention to the Libertarian or the Constitution Party. Their platforms may be more closely aligned with the Constitution but they have essentially zero chance of enacting them because of the way the cards are stacked.

So are you saying that we shouldn't vote for them because they have no chance to win? Isn't that what everyone says about Ron Paul? I don't think that is a good reason not to vote your conscience.

Besides, as other have pointed out, many of the people in this movement aren't Republicans. Some say "We should just take over local GOPs" but that doesn't work for the independents and democrats in this movement. Personally, I'd never set foot anywhere near my local GOP.

Let's take this movement where everyone in the movement can follow. That's third party, Libertarian or Constitution. The most important thing is that we stick together, and all vote as one so our influence can be felt.

 

[LEK]

Many of you are missing the point that we were infiltrated.

However/wherever/whenever the next patriot runs for president, he/she MUST put the highest priority on fully-vetting potential paid staff or everything else will be a waste of time.

Personally, I think we've run out of time. RP was this Republic's last hurrah...

Who else is known to be a quissling besides Luskin? I am curious...it really ticks me off that these "powers-that-be" can quash anything they choose - makes me feel emasculated and I'm not even a man.

 

[coffeewithchess]

Stevemartin started a thread where he claimed that Carol Paul had contacted him personally and stated that Ron did not write that email on 2/8/08. The mods let it stay on the forum all day until someone pointed out that if it was true, it made Ron Paul look like the dumbest man on the planet.

They finally moved it to hot topics and then later deleted the whole post. In the meantime, they banned a poster who was trying to protect Ron Paul and who called the poster a liar (it was true, he was lying) and they let the lying poster (stevemartin) stay on the forum to keep stirring up trouble.

Is this true?

 

[literatim]

So are you saying that we shouldn't vote for them because they have no chance to win? Isn't that what everyone says about Ron Paul? I don't think that is a good reason not to vote your conscience.

Vote for them all you want, but that won't change the fact that they won't get elected. All the Libertarian and Constitutionalist candidates would be better off joining the Republican Party and running in the primary.

Besides, as other have pointed out, many of the people in this movement aren't Republicans. Some say "We should just take over local GOPs" but that doesn't work for the independents and democrats in this movement. Personally, I'd never set foot anywhere near my local GOP.

Then you aren't really apart of this movement and should return to whatever ineffective 3rd party you came from.

Let's take this movement where everyone in the movement can follow. That's third party, Libertarian or Constitution. The most important thing is that we stick together, and all vote as one so our influence can be felt.

The majority of this movement are Republicans. The rest are from all over the place. What makes you think an ex-Constitutionalist will ever join the Libertarian Party and vice versa? What makes you think an ex-Democrat will go to either as well?

 

[mosquitobite]

It’s ironic, and telling, that in the wake of his scale-back announcement, Paul’s supporters pulled off a substantial achievement by garnering some 20-plus percent of the Washington state caucus vote. That result underscores an important point. The people who went through all the trouble to find the caucus locations, show up on time, and sit through the involved caucus procedures, where some kind of political commitment and even savvy is required, were and are serious about politics and about ideas. To now tell them to go home and await further orders is simply not wise: it is demoralizing, and it wastes the momentum--the intellectual momentum--enjoyed by Paul and the campaign to date.

I agree with this. Indiana's primary isn't until May 6th, and I'm a precinct leader. How could I still be pumped to do so when the candidate himself has said he'll scale back?

 

[beachmaster]

I remember telling my wife back in September or October that I thought at some point Ron Paul might purposefully fizzle and leave us deflated. I didn't think that he would do it because he wanted to, but because his family would be threatened. I still feel that's a possibility, maybe a probability. No way the NWO is just going to let someone waltz in an rain on their parade.