A Rand Repeat?

[Liberty4Ever]

Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.

Exactly! Thank you!

And thank you for your work in the state legislature. I did a little of that last year and it's difficult and frustrating work. It's a den of thieves. That's one more reason why Phil Moffett would be so good for Kentucky. We need him to check and balance our awful state legislature and slow them down until we can elect better people to our House and Senate.

Too bad the Hemp legislation is unneeded since Patton signed into law a hemp law.

Short history lesson: The last industrial hemp bill was passed but required the University of Kentucky to apply for a research waiver from the US DEA. The application was made and the DEA refused to act. They wouldn't issue the waiver or deny it. They stonewalled us, and laughed at our state sovereignty. The NEW & IMPROVED version of Kentucky's industrial hemp bill will not require DEA approval. Laugh at that, fed chuckle heads.

Phil Moffett is very serious about state sovereignty. That's a great start for a liberty candidate.

Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana.

So, you're in favor of Beshear or Williams because they're in favor of medical marijuana? Cause they aren't. AND they're not on board with any other liberty or small government issues either. Phil Moffett is BY FAR the best candidate in this race. Rand isn't 100% on every liberty issue, but he's a great liberty candidate because he's very pro-liberty and he'll definitely get the government out of your property and stop them from taxing us to death. Best of all, he's electable in Kentucky. Phil Moffett will get the government out of your property, stop them from taxing us to death, and he's electable in Kentucky... just like Rand.

Did you support Rand for his pro Medical Marijuana stance? I bet not, because he didn't run on that, just as Phil isn't running on that, and for the same reason. It'd be hard to be elected in Kentucky on a pro marijuana platform. Just ask Gatewood, our 10% of the vote gubernatorial candidate.

Insisting on a medical marijuana gubernatorial candidate isn't practical, and I think it's not a good criteria from a liberty perspective at this time. How about starting with someone who is strongly motivated to stop the fiscal bloodletting that is quickly destroying our state? He'll push for industrial hemp and sign it into law, and we can worry about weed later. OK?

Priorities! Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the very good! We didn't lose our liberty all at once, and we won't get it back all at once. Phil Moffett represents the biggest gain in liberty that I've dared hope to have in our state.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Exactly! Thank you!

And thank you for your work in the state legislature. I did a little of that last year and it's difficult and frustrating work. It's a den of thieves. That's one more reason why Phil Moffett would be so good for Kentucky. We need him to check and balance our awful state legislature and slow them down until we can elect better people to our House and Senate.




Short history lesson: The last industrial hemp bill was passed but required the University of Kentucky to apply for a research waiver from the US DEA. The application was made and the DEA refused to act. They wouldn't issue the waiver or deny it. They stonewalled us, and laughed at our state sovereignty. The NEW & IMPROVED version of Kentucky's industrial hemp bill will not require DEA approval. Laugh at that, fed chuckle heads.

Phil Moffett is very serious about state sovereignty. That's a great start for a liberty candidate.




So, you're in favor of Beshear or Williams because they're in favor of medical marijuana? Cause they aren't. AND they're not on board with any other liberty or small government issues either. Phil Moffett is BY FAR the best candidate in this race. Rand isn't 100% on every liberty issue, but he's a great liberty candidate because he's very pro-liberty and he'll definitely get the government out of your property and stop them from taxing us to death. Best of all, he's electable in Kentucky. Phil Moffett will get the government out of your property, stop them from taxing us to death, and he's electable in Kentucky... just like Rand.

Did you support Rand for his pro Medical Marijuana stance? I bet not, because he didn't run on that, just as Phil isn't running on that, and for the same reason. It'd be hard to be elected in Kentucky on a pro marijuana platform. Just ask Gatewood, our 10% of the vote gubernatorial candidate.

Insisting on a medical marijuana gubernatorial candidate isn't practical, and I think it's not a good criteria from a liberty perspective at this time. How about starting with someone who is strongly motivated to stop the fiscal bloodletting that is quickly destroying our state? He'll push for industrial hemp and sign it into law, and we can worry about weed later. OK?

Priorities! Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the very good! We didn't lose our liberty all at once, and we won't get it back all at once. Phil Moffett represents the biggest gain in liberty that I've dared hope to have in our state.

So, you are saying someone who panders and says he is for hemp farming but not eliminating a large prison population of non violent drug offenders which bilked the taxpayers of 1.23 billion is a good idea, that's who we should back? Or someone who opposes casinos being allowed to freely operate while state sponsored gambling and horse gambling is ok, that is a liberty minded candidate?

Again, never said I supported Williams or Beshear. Just pointing out all three suck and are not anywhere liberty candidates. Why would I waste time and money because one guy agrees on a few issues. Also, to equate him with Rand is like equating Bill Paxson with Michael Jordan. They may be on the same team but, not in the same league.

Also, Rand ran for federal office and not state. So, the drug issue should not be his issue as his response was it's a state's issue, he was returning medical marijuana and things of that nature to the state. When Moffett would have a shot to criminalize the use of marijuana.

Also, the UK bill was to give us a shot at industrial hemp and is a current law that can be allowed RIGHT NOW. No legislation needed. I've even discussed this with our fine folks at Take Back Kentucky as they saw my point. You brought up Gatewood. Moffett polls about the same place Gatewood does in the full field general polls I've seen. I get wanting a "Tea Party" type but I don't want TPINO. Both Williams and Moffett are that. Neither are serious about Liberty on social issues which cause most of our state issues.

Moffett is a Johnny Come Lately. Where as Rand we watched him speak out on his issues for years. I remember some people supporting Moffett railing against Rand over having Mitch help him with fundraising and then complaining about Williams being at events. These people have shown they don't know what it takes to win a general election. If the Moffett campaign thinks they can compete then they need to give me a reason to vote for them and support them. Right now, all I hear for their media message is snarky comments about the other candidates and a lack of a solid plan of their message. Right now I would be running ads and sending mailers. Neither is happening.

 

[Ethek]

I'm glad Bruce posted this.

I wrote David an email with some advice I felt very qualified to provide immediately after the primary. I would never presume that it should be the only thing but If hes considering this thread and where he would like to go with Phil I hope he has time to go back and take a look at it.

 

[sailingaway]

I'm not in Kentucky, so I'm pretty much staying out of this thread. When you were talking about the 'national liberty movement', I responded. As someone from California who donated to Rand and a few other liberty candidates across the nation in the past election,( since California seems such a bad state for good politicians), I was writing about the issue from that point of view. With all the country and all the races in it to get excited about, it takes something exciting about a candidate to draw support, for me. That is all I was saying. If I lived in KY, it would be different, because I would be talking about MY governor. But I don't, and I'm not. So Moffett should find something about his positions people would get excited about, imho.

 

[Matt Collins]

Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana. On a state level, that matters. I'm not for voting in Moral Majority types to have them double down on drug wars and more prisoners (Kentucky has spent an extra 1.23 billion imprisoning non-violent drug offenders in the past decade).

Interesting.

Yeah if he really is for bigger government, even if he is the better of the 3 (lesser of the evils), then I won't have anything to do with him. Not that it matters much anyway because I don't live in KY.

I only support and vote for candidates who are going to make the government smaller in ALL facets, not just some.

 

[TheTyke]

Where was Gatewood during the primary? I'm not sure, but Dea Riley was posting on Facebook that it was absurd to call Trey Grayson an Establishment candidate, and Rand fit the description better since he had huge out of state groups like Campaign for Liberty supporting him. Brilliant... I like Gatewood, but I'm not sure he understands economic liberty, and using vulgarities in public speaking (which turn off conservative friends, even constitutional ones) is not a way to win office.

Your claims that Moffett came to the game late are incorrect... he was at the Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand, despite the weather. He's on the right.

In any case, I'll be supporting the best candidate running... that means Moffett in the primary, and decide after that for the general. Rolling over and letting Williams represent the Republican Party would be a step back.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Interesting.

Yeah if he really is for bigger government, even if he is the better of the 3 (lesser of the evils), then I won't have anything to do with him. Not that it matters much anyway because I don't live in KY.

I only support and vote for candidates who are going to make the government smaller in ALL facets, not just some.

That's my point. I have heard enough of the "toying" with issues. I've worked for guys like this before. They only set you up to be disappointed.

I couldn't stand hearing people whine about Rand and the "Bailout Ball." Same people are now saying how loyal they were now he's elected. Whatever. I saw the path to victory and Rand did that!

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Where was Gatewood during the primary? I'm not sure, but Dea Riley was posting on Facebook that it was absurd to call Trey Grayson an Establishment Republican, and Rand fit the description better since he had huge out of state groups like Campaign for Liberty supporting him. I like Gatewood, but I'm not sure he understands economic liberty, and using vulgarities in public speaking (which turn off conservative friends, even constitutional ones) is not a way to win office.

Your claims that Moffett came to the game late are incorrect... he was at the Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand.

In any case, I'll be supporting the best candidate running... that means Moffett in the primary, and decide after that for the general. Rolling over and letting Williams represent the Republican Party would be a step back.

Forget that. Jumped off the Gatewood train a long time ago. Gatewood was at the Tea Party rallies. He worked the crowd. He's more on point with the issues. He has issues I can not stand with him on. I am out of his camp when I was leaning there.

Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand? Rand was already ahead in the polls. He didn't actually donate till Palin and he never hosted any events. Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically. He's basically another Andy Barr in my eyes.

I suggested that Gatewood and Moffett campaigns contact Gov. Gary Johnson and even Medina. None of them did. To me, those two had the strongest message (more so Gary since his actually won) for limited government.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

If the Moffett campaign thinks they can compete then they need to give me a reason to vote for them and support them.

Forget voting for him. For now, I'd be happy if you'd avoid deriding a good, solid, electable liberty candidate because he's not your idea of a perfect (and perfectly unelectable) liberty candidate.

I've voted Libertarian Party since Ron Paul ran as the 1988 Libertarian Party presidential nominee, so I know a thing or two about great unelectable candidates like Harry Browne and Michal Badnarik, and I can tell you that I'd much rather run good liberty candidates like Rand and Phil who can win, and start us back on the path to restoring our liberty.

We won't get anywhere if we sit on the sidelines and hold our breath waiting for the perfect ideologically pure candidate. Such a candidate doesn't exist, and if a miracle occurred and such a candidate dropped in from outer space, the voters would never go for someone like that. Too extreme. Scary. Unelectable.

In this race, we have the choice between two career politicians who created Kentucky's fiscal mess, and the new guy who has the intelligence, ethics and drive to fix the problems we face, and get the big nasty government our of our doo dah. You can day dream about your perfect candidate or lament the fact that we don't have a perfect candidate if you like, but I found a very good candidate who I can elect to be our next governor, and I'm taking that shot.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Forget voting for him. For now, I'd be happy if you'd avoid deriding a good, solid, electable liberty candidate because he's not your idea of a perfect (and perfectly unelectable) liberty candidate.

I've voted Libertarian Party since Ron Paul ran as the 1988 Libertarian Party presidential nominee, so I know a thing or two about great unelectable candidates like Harry Browne and Michal Badnarik, and I can tell you that I'd much rather run good liberty candidates like Rand and Phil who can win, and start us back on the path to restoring our liberty.

We won't get anywhere if we sit on the sidelines and hold our breath waiting for the perfect ideologically pure candidate. Such a candidate doesn't exist, and if a miracle occurred and such a candidate dropped in from outer space, the voters would never go for someone like that. Too extreme. Scary. Unelectable.

In this race, we have the choice between two career politicians who created Kentucky's fiscal mess, and the new guy who has the intelligence, ethics and drive to fix the problems we face, and get the big nasty government our of our doo dah. You can day dream about your perfect candidate or lament the fact that we don't have a perfect candidate if you like, but I found a very good candidate who I can elect to be our next governor, and I'm taking that shot.

Your right, settle for Andy Barr types is what we should do.

You do realize we just elected a purist to the Senate? Sorry, I will not let an anti-gambling, anti-medical marijuana, pro-drug warrior, never really supported the Senate campaign fully type take the mantle of a "Rand Repeat" which is what you called him.

He's more of a Brett Guthrie repeat at best, which I voted for and like Brett.

 

[TheTyke]

Forget that. Jumped off the Gatewood train a long time ago. Gatewood was at the Tea Party rallies. He worked the crowd. He's more on point with the issues. He has issues I can not stand with him on. I am out of his camp when I was leaning there.

Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand? Rand was already ahead in the polls. He didn't actually donate till Palin and he never hosted any events. Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically. He's basically another Andy Barr in my eyes.

I suggested that Gatewood and Moffett campaigns contact Gov. Gary Johnson and even Medina. None of them did. To me, those two had the strongest message (more so Gary since his actually won) for limited government.

I'm one of the ones who stuck by Rand through all the doubts, because I knew him as a person and judged him to be on our side. Although I don't know Phil as well, that's also the feeling get from him. Besides, since Williams is our #1 obstacle of getting liberty legislation through, what better opportunity will we have to publicly challenge him than this primary (since apparently, we've been unsuccessful removing him as Senate President?)

It's a winning situation... but beyond that I personally believe he'd be a good governor. And this is in spite of Adams & Mica's attempts to change my mind with their shenanigans... lol...

We'd have to make it happen though. Which is, I think, Liberty4Ever's point.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

I'm one of the ones who stuck by Rand through all the doubts, because I knew him as a person and judged him to be on our side. Although I don't know Phil as well, that's also the feeling get from him. Besides, since Williams is our #1 obstacle of getting liberty legislation through, what better opportunity will we have to publicly challenge him than this primary (since apparently, we've been unsuccessful removing him as Senate President?)

It's a winning situation... but beyond that I personally believe he'd be a good governor. And this is in spite of Adams & Mica's attempts to change my mind with their shenanigans... lol...

We'd have to make it happen though. Which is, I think, Liberty4Ever's point.

Guys, I'm with you. I really want to like Moffett but, the line of thinking he has is VERY flawed and just lead back to the problems we are in. Plus these comments from his campaign on his behalf made me sour:

"We know Beshear colluded with Obama and Jack Conway to headstomp Kentuckians who don't like ObamaCare, but does this mean he also helped put together that dreadful tv ad attacking Rand Paul's Christian faith?"

David Adams, campaign manager
Phil Moffett for Governor

Again, this was supposed to help?

 

[TheTyke]

Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share.

Distrust of people who were hesitant to hold functions for ALMOST PERFECT liberty candidates and don't donate till Palin. Plus, not so sure you are going to win an election on the "I'm not him" or "He's scary" platform. Being the "Tea Party Candidate" right now is allowing Hemp but, forgetting the major issue that hurts Kentuckians economically and socially. Our massive Prison industrial Complex and Police state. Plus what free market loving conservative doesn't believe in a person's right to waste one's money at playing cards?

Guthrie is untouchable here. Like how I feel about Moffett. They are the types if they get in office and disappoint, they'll be hard to get out. Again, I think his message is horrible right now.

I'd be running something similar to this on TV right now while rates are cheap! State level of course:
YouTube - Gary Johnson: The Athlete's Guide to Good Government

 

[Liberty4Ever]

I couldn't stand hearing people whine about Rand and the "Bailout Ball." Same people are now saying how loyal they were now he's elected. Whatever. I saw the path to victory and Rand did that!

The fact is, the bailout ball was a major diversion in Rand's path to victory. It cost a huge number of the Independent and conservative Democrat votes needed to win a US Senate seat in Kentucky. This isn't Monday morning quarterbacking, either. Those of us most active in the grassroots ground war instantly knew it was a mistake. We were the ones who had been talking to these critical voters throughout the primary, and setting Rand up for cruise control in the general election.

The media made a big flap about the 1964 Civil Rights Act comments Rand made in the Rabid Madcow ambush interview, but the polling data told a very different story. The lunch counter comments caused small negative moves. The majority of the lost momentum and support was based on the bailout ball so soon after we all ripped Grayson for doing the same thing, and hanging around with Mitch McConnell. These were very unpopular in the grassroots liberty community, but they were equally unpopular among grassroots voters. If Conway hadn't been such a totally unelectable jerk, these post-primary missteps could have been very serious.

Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically.

I've never said that Phil Moffett was a big Rand fan. Who is so motivated by personality politics as to think that's an issue? I think it's as irrelevant as saying that Rand wasn't a big fan of Phil Moffett. I'm not voting for him because of who he likes. I'm supporting him because of who he is, and what he believes, and what he'll do after he's elected.

From what I've seen, I'd score Rand and Phil about the same on my hypothetical liberty scale. Ron Paul scores 100, and Rand and Phil earn a 92. They're all A candidates in my score book. Williams and Beshear? There's some failing grades, right there, and their bad behavior warrants expulsion.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share.

Distrust of people who were hesitant to hold functions for ALMOST PERFECT liberty candidates and don't donate till Palin. Plus, not so sure you are going to win an election on the "I'm not him" or "He's scary" platform. Being the "Tea Party Candidate" right now is allowing Hemp but, forgetting the major issue that hurts Kentuckians economically and socially. Our massive Prison industrial Complex and Police state. Plus what free market loving conservative doesn't believe in a person's right to waste one's money at playing cards?

Guthrie is untouchable here. Like how I feel about Moffett. They are the types if they get in office and disappoint, they'll be hard to get out. Again, I think his message is horrible right now.

I'd be running something similar to this on TV right now while rates are cheap! State level and :30 of course:
YouTube - Gary Johnson: The Athlete's Guide to Good Government

 

[TheTyke]

I'm pretty sure you would agree if we're going to do something with gambling, it should be legalized across the board - not just special favors for a few groups. Both sides have it wrong on this issue. Campaigns are basically about winning (it surprised me that he even backed hemp) - bringing up legalization issues or an entirely new take to the gambling situation that would anger BOTH sides (social cons and pro-special interest favors) seem like a great way to take the campaign down in flames.

Also, have to throw in my 2 cents on the other topic... Rand always said he'd work with the party and accept support once he won the primary. The "scandal" was a result of a Conman press release, compliant media and reaction by people who weren't paying attention to what he said in 2009. Furthermore, the money was needed to win, as the liberty movement alone couldn't keep up the pace. Rand did what he had to, and the benefits outweighed the difficulty Conman able to generate with it. We won a historic victory, and I'm glad Rand was able to navigate those waters.

 

[TheDriver]

......


If Moffett is indeed a liberty candidate, maybe those who support him should lobby for a forum to post their promos and issue discussions.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

......


If Moffett is indeed a liberty candidate, maybe those who support him should lobby for a forum to post their promos and issue discussions.

this.

Posting in the Rand Paul forums is not productive since Senator Elect Paul has decided not to endorse him or Williams.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

The fact is, the bailout ball was a major diversion in Rand's path to victory. It cost a huge number of the Independent and conservative Democrat votes needed to win a US Senate seat in Kentucky. This isn't Monday morning quarterbacking, either. Those of us most active in the grassroots ground war instantly knew it was a mistake. We were the ones who had been talking to these critical voters throughout the primary, and setting Rand up for cruise control in the general election.

The media made a big flap about the 1964 Civil Rights Act comments Rand made in the Rabid Madcow ambush interview, but the polling data told a very different story. The lunch counter comments caused small negative moves. The majority of the lost momentum and support was based on the bailout ball so soon after we all ripped Grayson for doing the same thing, and hanging around with Mitch McConnell. These were very unpopular in the grassroots liberty community, but they were equally unpopular among grassroots voters. If Conway hadn't been such a totally unelectable jerk, these post-primary missteps could have been very serious.




I've never said that Phil Moffett was a big Rand fan. Who is so motivated by personality politics as to think that's an issue? I think it's as irrelevant as saying that Rand wasn't a big fan of Phil Moffett. I'm not voting for him because of who he likes. I'm supporting him because of who he is, and what he believes, and what he'll do after he's elected.

From what I've seen, I'd score Rand and Phil about the same on my hypothetical liberty scale. Ron Paul scores 100, and Rand and Phil earn a 92. They're all A candidates in my score book. Williams and Beshear? There's some failing grades, right there, and their bad behavior warrants expulsion.

You must believe everything David Adams wants people to believe. Your scorebook is off if you believe Phil is that strong. Again, the difference between Moffett and Fletcher/Barr/Guthrie, Hemp Farming. That and he just repeats some things he's heard Rand said. This is like supporting the Monkees because you were a Beetles fan. It's so obvious he's trying to just fool people he's an extension of Senator Elect Paul, he even made his logo the same theme:

Blue background didn't come through on link.