A Rand Repeat?

[Liberty4Ever]

Not sure if I want a governor that could potentially lay off a bunch of state workers.

My current living situation depends on the salary of a state worker (my father) to keep a roof over my head.

Livelihood over principle in this case. Not going to lie or sugar coat. It's just how things are in this economy.

Well, at least you were honest about your motivations. It is a tough economy.

It's a tough economy because The Fed and our governments have colluded to destroy our free market economy. The government is killing the goose that lays their golden eggs. They can't keep taxing and spending, more and more, indefinitely.

Here's a quote from Phil Moffett's Issues page, as linked earlier in this thread.

Our Commonwealth is drowning in debt. We have over $7 billion in authorized debt. Additionally, we have a $30+ billion underfunded state employee retirement fund. This debt hole is getting deeper by the day and there is no plan in place to stop it.

The Moffett/Harmon administration will appoint a “military base-closing” style commission to look into every corner of state government.

The commission will be chartered with consolidating back office functions and cabinets, eliminating unnecessary programs, and outsource as many state services as possible.

The savings realized from the commission will be used to eliminate our debt and shore up the pension plan.

So, based on the long term revenue shortfall and rapidly approaching economic crisis in Kentucky, you'd recommend we keep our Too Big Not To Fail state government?

The Moffett plan would be our best chance of honoring the state pensions that were robbed by previous administrations. You and your dad should appreciate that.

We can't keep spending ever more money that we don't have. We've overspent, and we're going to have some tough times. If we stick our heads in the sand and keep borrowing and spending, the times are going to be that much tougher.

Why not shrink state government, mostly through attrition? We certainly can't afford to keep growing it, and we're past the point of raising taxes some more as corporate and individual incomes plummet. We already have too much of a bad thing. We don't need any more.

 

[Jeremy Tyler]

Moffett came and spoke to us at our SFL UofL meeting. He is a great guy. But I think his campaign is not being ran well currently. They just are not doing the necessary fundraising.

 

[TheDriver]

Originally Posted by TheDriver
If Moffett can't self-fund the bulk of his campaign - it's over.

That's absolutely not true, and shame on you for raining on our liberty parade.

That's just how I see it, sorry for raining on your "liberty parade."

If Moffett doesn't have a few hundred thousands dollars worth of mail going out soon, he'll never be anywhere near par with Williams in the polls, especially if more candidates jump in.

And I'm not talking about a poll that doesn't show him head-to-head with Williams. Anyone in Kentucky would poll 20% against Beshear.

Maybe Moffett can poll close to Williams in the GOP primary, if so, then I'm wrong. But if he is way behind Williams (like I expect), because he has no name i.d., then I'm afraid you're wrong, or in denial.

When's the first independent head-to-head poll coming out?

 

[Agorism]

Keep in mind it's not just the message but the messenger so just because someone is a "liberty candidate" doesn't mean the people will automatically respect that person.

That's why Angle and others lost while Rand won.

 

[Jeremy Tyler]

The driver is absolutely correct about self funding. He is right about the reason too. Moffett unfortunately has barely any name recognition. I don't like Williams at all, I like moffett. But I think David Adams waited too long to try and start fundraising.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

I'm glad the Driver said it so I didn't have to.

Moffett is not the same as Rand. Heck, he didn't campaign for Rand at all in the primary and he didn't donate till he was told he had to if he wanted to meet Palin. No thanks.

Plus he and Williams are about the same on social issues. Both are typical Neo-Cons there. Anti-Gambling, Anti-Med Marijuana and Anti-Legal Marijuana. They are lucky Gatewood has chosen the worse Lt. Gov option or I probably would not consider voting for Moffett.

 

[TheDriver]

But I think David Adams waited too long to try and start fundraising.

I'm sure it was tough with all the attention on the senate race.

A self-funder could be mailing the voters now asking for donations, while telling them a little something (non-controversial) about himself.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

Williams also helped before Moffett, I see you failed to mention that.

No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? It's not like he's undergone some radical philosophical change. He's still a neocon.

Williams is in a bit of a pickle now though. His votes in the Kentucky Senate were sold for his short term political gain, but they're currently working against him now that the voters of Kentucky have his number.

Just keeping it honest......

Uhh, that would be me, in this discussion.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

Moffett came and spoke to us at our SFL UofL meeting. He is a great guy. But I think his campaign is not being ran well currently. They just are not doing the necessary fundraising.

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!

Fund raising isn't some esoteric thing. It comes from people. Hence this thread.

If you'd like to correct the fund raising deficit of this "great guy", please send him $10!

Yes, I see that you're in the Students For Liberty (sweet!), but after the back-to-back Ron and Rand campaigns, I'm probably so tapped out that your student budget would look pretty good to me!

 

[BamaFanNKy]

No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? It's not like he's undergone some radical philosophical change. He's still a neocon.

Williams is in a bit of a pickle now though. His votes in the Kentucky Senate were sold for his short term political gain, but they're currently working against him now that the voters of Kentucky have his number.


Uhh, that would be me, in this discussion.

Sorry dude. When Williams came out in the Primary.... it wasn't a for sure thing.

Also, Moffett was a no show in the primary. Again, Neither he nor Adams donated till they wanted to meet Palin. Also, it was his own campaign that convinced Coal Fed Families (Their blog) , Mica Sims (Herald Leader) and his own campaign manager (Gave an interview to Barefoot and Progressive?!?!) to cause trouble over Rand having Williams on the bus tour when Moffett was invited.

 

[TheDriver]

No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? .

If you started helping Rand in late 2009, it's hard to say you're new to that party. So I respectively disagree with your assessment based on the time-frame, not on intent.

If Williams knew Rand was going to win in the fall of 2009 and made the right moves for his own political future, that appears to be more than Moffett did at the time (sad but true).

I realize you are biased against Williams, but don't let that bias cloud the truth. I don't think anyone is defending Williams or is pro-Williams on this forum. :o

P.S. Sorry for being a PITA, it just seems strange to me that Moffett waited till the very end to donate heavy to Rand, sorry.

 

[TheDriver]

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!

I'll suggest a "Liberty Christmas Dinner."

Lexington (seems to be more central).

Have an admission fee (which would cover cost and still leave room for donation).

Come out and celebrate our liberty victory in the 2010 races, and meet Phil Moffett type of thing....


It's not much, but the best I have off the top of my head.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

If you started helping Rand in late 2009, it's hard to say you're new to that party.

I wouldn't say that MARCH of 2009 is "late 2009".

Some of my Kentucky liberty friends knew Rand and encouraged him to run. He was initially reluctant, as many great candidates are. We were all enthusiastic and supportive in our own way, very early. I had my first Rand Paul gun show in March of 2009, and I consider that the start of my public Rand campaigning, which made for a grueling 14 month primary. We had done a lot of planning prior to that, and I designed and printed campaign literature back then when the official campaign said it was too early for that, when there wasn't money for such things... which is similar to where Phil Moffett's campaign is now.

 

[Jeremy Tyler]

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!

Fund raising isn't some esoteric thing. It comes from people. Hence this thread.

If you'd like to correct the fund raising deficit of this "great guy", please send him $10!

Yes, I see that you're in the Students For Liberty (sweet!), but after the back-to-back Ron and Rand campaigns, I'm probably so tapped out that your student budget would look pretty good to me!

There is a long story behind it but I had over $200 raised for him from like 6 or 7 people. Adams would not pick up the checks and made appointments and then wouldn't show up. This was before the senate race was over and I still managed to get people to donate. It wasnt easy, did a lot of phone calls.

Look I like moffet a lot and don't like williams at all. I agree that Williams only supported Rand to try and further his own career. I'm just making a objective observation that more should have been done before and I don't think they are doing enough now. Surely you can agree with me on that,

 

[Liberty4Ever]

There is a long story behind it but I had over $200 raised for him from like 6 or 7 people. Adams would not pick up the checks and made appointments and then wouldn't show up.

I'm definitely missing a lot of this long story. For example, I'd have mailed the checks. I'm guessing there was some reason that the checks needed to be delivered in person.

I'd hope that Phil could visit in person and talk to people. The money is important, but we're looking at this as a Friend Raiser, like we did for Rand. It's a lot more than picking up a check. The candidate needs to speak to people and convince them of his integrity and veracity and liberty credentials, and THEN people feel like writing a check... and telling their friends, and slapping on a bumper sticker or writing "MOFFETT 4GOV 2011" with window chalk on the back window of their car.

Look I like moffett a lot and don't like williams at all. I agree that Williams only supported Rand to try and further his own career. I'm just making a objective observation that more should have been done before and I don't think they are doing enough now. Surely you can agree with me on that,

Certainly, in the grassroots fight to restore our lost liberty, there's always more that could and should be done.

I'm trying to do more. That's why I started this thread. It doesn't seem to be going very far.

I know that if I spent more time hanging out here over the last year, I'd have a better idea of why that is. I spend an inordinate amount of time working on liberty stuff. Between reading and writing email, making stuff, doing stuff, watching videos and trying to stay informed, it's at least a full time job, but I've been largely AWOL on the Ron Paul Forums while working on Ron's and Rand's campaigns. My loss!

 

[Jeremy Tyler]

I'm definitely missing a lot of this long story. For example, I'd have mailed the checks. I'm guessing there was some reason that the checks needed to be delivered in person.

I'd hope that Phil could visit in person and talk to people. The money is important, but we're looking at this as a Friend Raiser, like we did for Rand. It's a lot more than picking up a check. The candidate needs to speak to people and convince them of his integrity and veracity and liberty credentials, and THEN people feel like writing a check... and telling their friends, and slapping on a bumper sticker or writing "MOFFETT 4GOV 2011" with window chalk on the back window of their car.

Trust me me and couple of other people were wishing the same thing when trying to get some high donors on board. He really needed to be talking to them. As far as in person, thats what Adams wanted us to do.

 

[TheDriver]

I wouldn't say that MARCH of 2009 is "late 2009".

I was referring to David Williams not you.

 

[sailingaway]

Sorry dude. When Williams came out in the Primary.... it wasn't a for sure thing.

Also, Moffett was a no show in the primary. Again, Neither he nor Adams donated till they wanted to meet Palin. Also, it was his own campaign that convinced Coal Fed Families (Their blog) , Mica Sims (Herald Leader) and his own campaign manager (Gave an interview to Barefoot and Progressive?!?!) to cause trouble over Rand having Williams on the bus tour when Moffett was invited.

This ^^ and Adams stirring the pot on the Fair Tax (which Adams is affiliated with) in the crucial last weeks of the campaign when Rand was tightly controlling his message poisoned a lot of people here who might otherwise have had better will towards the campaign, frankly. That is not Moffett's fault, but those who might have given out of good will towards Adams are much fewer than they were. Other than that, people would have to be excited on Moffett's own merits, and other than the fair tax, which is considered 'so so' around here, we haven't been given much about him to excite us enough to get involved outside our jurisdictions.

 

[TheTyke]

We need to support Moffett all the way. He's one of the few politicians beside Ron & Rand who I can stand and actually believe in. When I've seen him speak, he actually jumps right into issues... states rights and defending the Constitution. The benefits of having a pro-liberty Governor who will represent us cannot be overstated... when coupled with Rand as a Senator, KY could become the spearhead for liberty in the U.S. Electing Rand was never going to be easy, but we did it. If we work as hard for Moffett, we could make another miracle happen... and in any case, in a primary, it makes sense to go all out supporting Constitutional candidates if they decide to run.

As someone who has worked to advance liberty in the state legislature, I know Williams is someone who has intentionally blocked all kinds of pro-liberty legislation - from legalizing industrial hemp, to refusing to comply with RealID. He also spread the lie of the "budget shortfall" to increase taxes and drive our state into debt - and then the GOP has been lying about it since, saying he was instrumental in "stopping the wild Democrat spending" - when in fact, he was complicity. Williams is the epitome of everything that's wrong with government.

Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

We need to support Moffett all the way. He's one of the few politicians beside Ron & Rand who I can stand and actually believe in. When I've seen him speak, he actually jumps right into issues... states rights and defending the Constitution. The benefits of having a pro-liberty Governor who will represent us cannot be overstated... when coupled with Rand as a Senator, KY could become the spearhead for liberty in the U.S. Electing Rand was never going to be easy, but we did it. If we work as hard for Moffett, we could make another miracle happen... and in any case, in a primary, it makes sense to go all out supporting Constitutional candidates if they decide to run.

As someone who has worked to advance liberty in the state legislature, I know Williams is someone who has intentionally blocked all kinds of pro-liberty legislation - from legalizing industrial hemp, to refusing to comply with RealID. He also spread the lie of the "budget shortfall" to increase taxes and drive our state into debt - and then the GOP has been lying about it since, saying he was instrumental in "stopping the wild Democrat spending" - when in fact, he was complicity. Williams is the epitome of everything that's wrong with government.

Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.

Too bad the Hemp legislation is unneeded since Patton signed into law a hemp law.

Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana. On a state level, that matters. I'm not for voting in Moral Majority types to have them double down on drug wars and more prisoners (Kentucky has spent an extra 1.23 billion imprisoning non-violent drug offenders in the past decade).