sailingaway
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I understand that. I just disagree with the idea that voting for someone else will show 'our' numbers.
Gary Johnson A call for unity between Paul supporters and Johnson supporters.
- Thread starter NeverQuit
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I understand that. I just disagree with the idea that voting for someone else will show 'our' numbers.
ronpaulhawaii
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I think many people are unaware of some of the origins of the bad blood. Probably the biggest kick in the face was when the Vice Chair of the Republican Liberty Caucus (Aaron Biterman) attacked both RP and us with tired old Donderoesque talking points; calling us anti-semite racist cultists/etc. This was early in the 2012 race. The audacity of his supporters coming here to RPFs to try to draw RP supporters away BEFORE THE FIRST PRIMARY AND CONTINUALLY EVER SINCE using similar tactics is why I've taken a strong stand here on RPFs. (It should be noted that I have not raised my issues against GJ in any other forum but this...)
I, also, agree wholeheartedly that any resources used in the pres race at this point are a waste and that we should be focusing on downticket races
I, also, agree wholeheartedly that any resources used in the pres race at this point are a waste and that we should be focusing on downticket races
KingNothing
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Aaron Biterman is a pathetic, arrogant, dweeb. I don't know if he really comprehends how much damage he's actually done -- He almost completely turned me off Gary Johnson, and I can't imagine that ronpaulhawaii and I are the only one's who've picked up on his genuine atrociousness.
I did always find it amusing that while folks here have, at times, questioned my loyalty to Paul and the movement, Aaron regularly said I was a cultist anti-semite. I think he's got some real issues to deal with.
I did always find it amusing that while folks here have, at times, questioned my loyalty to Paul and the movement, Aaron regularly said I was a cultist anti-semite. I think he's got some real issues to deal with.
C
Chester Copperpot
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hmm
NoOneButPaul
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All voting for Johnson does is send the message the LP is a force (which is why the LP plants have been out in full force trying to get us- convincing us it's within our own interests to support them when it's most certainly not (Why hasn't Paul endorsed Johnson if it's so important to vote for him?).
That's a terrible message to send because anything the LP shows off in 2012 will be a direct result of what Ron Paul did as a Republican.
It's a total contradiction to support the LP because it sends the message we should split ourselves off into two conservative parties- which at the end of the day will only cause Democratic power to run rampant and for both conservative parties to lose out.
Helping the LP could very well destroy this country.
Do what you said you would and write Ron Paul in, it doesn't matter if it's counted or not, all that matters is you know you voted for the best person.
And in 4 years when Gary Johnson has gone the way of Bob Barr you'll be patting yourself on the back for voting for principle.
Johnson lost my confidence when he turned down an automatic Senate seat, if he truly cared about Liberty he would have gone to Washington as a Liberty Republican Senator and helped Rand and Co out.
That's a terrible message to send because anything the LP shows off in 2012 will be a direct result of what Ron Paul did as a Republican.
It's a total contradiction to support the LP because it sends the message we should split ourselves off into two conservative parties- which at the end of the day will only cause Democratic power to run rampant and for both conservative parties to lose out.
Helping the LP could very well destroy this country.
Do what you said you would and write Ron Paul in, it doesn't matter if it's counted or not, all that matters is you know you voted for the best person.
And in 4 years when Gary Johnson has gone the way of Bob Barr you'll be patting yourself on the back for voting for principle.
Johnson lost my confidence when he turned down an automatic Senate seat, if he truly cared about Liberty he would have gone to Washington as a Liberty Republican Senator and helped Rand and Co out.
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TheGrinch
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So what? Ron Paul made huge gains for liberty as a republican, as the republcians turned their backs on us, cheated us, and refused to listen to our issues other than a few token platform changes they won't abide by. Doesn't mean we're giving up there, but it sure doesn't mean they've done anything for my vote.
I think you're hyperbolizing greatly to say that voting LP up to 10% of the vote is going to do anything besides show our numbers for our issues. It most definitely sends a message, that they cannot just do whatever they want and expect people to keep running back to the 2 party system. People should demand that someone listen to our issues, which are important American issues.
Paulistinian
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I wish he would have taken the Senate run... His arrogance about the Senate being beneath him, that he is an executive ONLY really turned me off to him.
There is a sub-forum for this.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?313-Opposing-Candidates&prefixid=gary
Just sayin.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?313-Opposing-Candidates&prefixid=gary
Just sayin.
georgiaboy
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All these posts courting our votes for the different candidates. We must be more powerful and numerous than we even imagined.
orenbus
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I don't know who Aaron Biterman is, I didn't pay much attention to any of the other candidates in other parties for pretty much all of this election cycle. There was too much to do just within our own grassroots activities to spend any time on what others were saying.
Gary Johnson wasn't even on my radar at all up until a couple of days ago after the convention ended and when Ron Paul had the Leno interview that pretty much spelled out that a 3rd party/indy run was out of the question, so no clear path on Ron Paul continuing in the race.
Gary Johnson wasn't even on my radar at all up until a couple of days ago after the convention ended and when Ron Paul had the Leno interview that pretty much spelled out that a 3rd party/indy run was out of the question, so no clear path on Ron Paul continuing in the race.
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KingNothing
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Paying no mind to the thought that maybe, just maybe, he doesn't want to be a Senator?
specsaregood
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If I'm ever in a position where I am polling as #1 for an open senate seat without even spending a dime and I tell you that I don't want to be a senator and imply it is beneath me; but instead opt for a hopeless 3rd party presidential run; then you have my permission to kick me out of the liberty club.
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NoOneButPaul
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Are you kidding me? If they get 10-15% the LP people will never hold it down, the leaving the GOP shit will get so much worse than it already is. It will set up an enviroment where people will find it even more logical to break themselves off from the GOP and hand the country to big spending liberals.
We have to take serious LP success to it's logical conclusion- two conservative parties and 1 democratic party. That's where it ends up eventually and that's how we lose this fight. We cannot break our already small numbers in half. We have to unite where all the scum is already at and by helping out the LP your just driving people away from the real focus- driving the NeoCons out. Sending a message with the LP does nothing but lay the ground work for the entire movement being split in half.
It's a terrible idea.
Write in Ron Paul.
NoOneButPaul
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Then clearly he doesn't have Liberty in his best interests... he'd rather be about himself than the cause.
Deborah K
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Agreed. Our main goal with PaulFestival was to show the country our numbers through unity. To try and bring people together who believe in individual liberty and all that it encompasses. We failed. The movement is too fractured, and there are those in the campaign who have other motives besides uniting us.
Who is bashing Gary Johnson? If people won't vote for a person because of their stand on the issues that is not bashing them, just stating a fact. Not every Ron Paul supporter is going to support Gary Johnson, accept that. That is not dividing the movement, and it is not bashing, it is because they have different stands on the issues and they have different records. Also if it is true that Gary Johnson will not agree to step aside and let Ron Paul be the LP nominee if wants it, then there is no way most Ron Paul supporters would ever vote for such a man.
Deborah K
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I like Virgil. His heart is in the right place. He really wanted to speak at PaulFestival but had prior commitments. Spoke to him personally about it.
Deborah K
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What a ridiculous demand. Not only is it unrealistic, it's very shortsighted. Are people really demanding this, or is it just you?
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