A blimp is a BAD IDEA - here is why

I know this is a contentious matter but it needs to be approached in the best way possible. What has been done here is far from that. We will never be in the business of trying to tell others what to think but we need to keep things civil and let good discourse bring facts to light, let positions be stated and then let everyone come to their own conclusions.

Some posts have been deleted, this thread will be locked if things don't improve.

Thank you.

Improve to what? This is a highly civil, informed and intellectual thread. What would you like to see this thread improve to?

:(

Ron Paul ALWAYS said, "Have fun." And we did. Not so much fun anymore, is it?

I still think it's fun. There's no better sensation than when something in your mind "clicks" into place. Staying involved and informed to the best of your ability is the only way to keep that sensation coming back. If it's not fun anymore then the apathy is coming back and you should take a break.
 
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There are many extraordinary people here, and you suck the life out of them.


I still get that "tingle" down my leg when think of us gearing up for Rand 2016. But, like Amy said...
 
There are many extraordinary people here, and you suck the life out of them.
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Yes that's awesome, I was part of that too, but we need to do things to win, not just feel good.

No it didn't... and most importantly, it didn't win any votes either.

Yeah, it made people feel good, but it didn't accomplish anything.

We should aim to use our head and not our emotions.

Yes and no... this is a mixed bag.....

While we cannot scare away voters by seeming to be radical, we must also realize that in most cases fewer than 15% of the population decides any given election. In some cases it's less than 6%.

We don't need to win over the masses, we just need to market to those who are already going to the polls, and most of the time that is very few people.

Matt, you are too quick to dismiss those efforts and the impact of appealing to people emotionally.

the 2012 campaign was an appeal to emotions. Every single donation letter and email I get from Ron Paul and Rand Paul is an appeal to emotions. The problem is, the campaign is going to be very poor at stirring emotions if it is OUT OF TOUCH with the grassroots.

I already explained to you what the Blimp accomplished. It was taking the ideas that Ron Paul was putting out there for his supporters and making those ideas happen.

The blimp flew in the face of campaign finance laws. It was a totally unique campaign fundraising concept at the time. It brought people together it united the grassroots across a wide swath of geographical areas in a way that the internet is incapable of YET, it complimented other efforts.

The reasons that you are using to dismiss the blimp as a wasted effort are the same reasons we can use on ANY effort in 2008 to say those efforts were wasted.

At the very least, the blimp was a successful application of Ron Paul's message of free market ideas rising to the top. The market inside of the grassroots Ron Paul revolution wanted a blimp. The market got what it wanted. Whether or not it worked out for your purpose and your goal is irrelevant.

It worked for the people who wanted it to work (me) and achieved what I needed it to achieve. It is part of my campaigning efforts, even to this day.


As far as scaring away voters by seeming to be radical, I think that the fatal flaw in what you are trying to preach here. Being radical is what attracted me here and probably most people.

Voters aren't scarred away. Voters are literally ignored, their opinions, ideas, concerns, and most importantly, their support is being ignored. Not just by the Paul Inc Apparatus. By the entire political establishment.

You want to join that establishment and honor its tradition of ignoring 80% of Americans?

Remember, FREEDOM IS POPULAR?

That was something that Ron Paul has been saying this whole time. I personally agree. Freedom IS popular and in the CONTEXT of history, FREEDOM is RADICAL.

You have a nice big juicy prize sitting out there for you if you have the right message to go and get it. That prize is a base of America voters that make up the vast majority of the population.

You have to let go of the idea that somehow getting the right people in positions of power is all that it will take to turn this country around. That idea fails so bad and its obvious why.

As Ron Paul has said, this is a revolution of ideas. The battleground is in the hearts and minds of Americans. I will have no success in winning that battle by using the same establishment tactics, the same establishment ideas to get "MY GUY" elected, the same old methods of only caring about the every shrinking number of "likely voters".

I need new, fresh ideas, new tactics, and most importantly, a new message that UNITES people, new ideas that speak to EVERYONE, not just the special interest voters.

I am sure there is middle ground between the grassroots who are by their very nature RADICALIZED FANATICS to the cause and the polished campaign that has careers and fortunes riding on success.

That middle ground has to be found, and the first thing to do is put away the knives on both sides. Ultimately the goal is the same, but it is hubris of the highest magnitude to believe and try to convince others that ALL we need to do is convince a small slice of "likely voters" to come to our corner for the primary and we'll win the revolution.

That would be an unlikely victory, but in the scope of what I am personally trying to accomplish, its nothing more than a sub plot that, win or lose, won't amount to much if the vast majority of Americans are not inspired to take back their freedom and liberty.

Making freedom popular is my ultimate goal. empowering individuals to stand up to illegitimate authority is my ultimate purpose. I will use the momentum from Ron Paul's educational campaigns, and use the lessons he taught me to accomplish that goal.

I hope you understand Matt, that while yes, Ron Paul's message showed me the nature of my chains and gave me the key to unlock them, the message itself is something that ALL of us are born with. It's the oppressive political system in this country and around the world that bound that message.

I can't believe that the ideas of freedom and liberty have been oppressed for SO LONG. I also can't believe that at the end of the day, the people who have been doing the oppressing are going to sit idly by and let anyone use the system they have crafted against them, to beat them.

What we need is rebellion against that system. I personally rebel against that system. the side effect of my rebelliousness against the status quo establishment political class who have been using their power against me is get behind a candidate that speaks truth against them on a national stage.

That is the ONLY reason Ron Paul's message made it out of the meat freezer. People were embolden by Ron Paul in a time of desperation. That is why the blimp flew. It was bold, it was not "normal", it was unique, it was coordinated, it represented the MORAL HIGH GROUND.

The blimp is a symbol of the power of a REBELLIOUS GRASSROOTS. Does it scare people?

YOU ARE DAMNED RIGHT IT DOES.

Does is scare voters? NO. It attracts MORE radicals and helps other radicals recognize each other and rally to each other. It is a high perch from which to view and assess the movement as a whole.

You can try and trick those likely voters into giving you illegitimate political power in a corrupt system. But ultimately no matter who is in power, that power is going to be taken away from them by the people with the moral high ground.

That would be the scary radicals that Ron Paul united. The real movement, the movement that your political polls don't take into account and summarily dismiss because they don't participate in the scheme, that movement is the movement that Ron Paul predicted to be growing exponentially.

He's right, it's here. It is coming. And those people think the blimp was an amazing idea. At the end of the day, that opinion is the one that counts.
 
Probably the source of much angst.

Ron Paul get's it. His handlers? Probably not so much. I think we need both, but, that won't happen when the campaign is striking down the part of the movement that embodies the man that inspired it.

It's like trying to kill off the best part of, "Who is Ron Paul"




http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-became-a-revolution-2012-5?op=1

[h=3]And Ron Paul didn't really want to takeover the Republican Party either.[/h]
and-ron-paul-didnt-really-want-to-takeover-the-republican-party-either.jpg

Flikr
"Ron wanted Campaign for Liberty to be just educational," Paul's political director, Jesse Benton, told Doherty. "We drug him kicking and screaming to make it a grassroots lobbying group and one that trained activists — we've trained hundreds of activists in every state, giving them the tools to win legislative fights and electoral fights at the local level and the state level."

Benton adds: "People don't give to CFL just because they like Ron Paul...They give to it because they like our issues."
 
Yes, lol this is why Matt has been going after me all this time as a 'betrayer' :)
No, I never said you were a betrayer, and I never questioned your dedication to the cause of liberty, that is beyond repute. But openly and publicly trashing a liberty campaign was a tactless, unprofessional, and rude thing to do. Although beside the point, but especially when you were incorrect in your strategy.
 
Rand is smart, and the political landscape is advantageous to him. Who made it that way? Who are the landscapers?

Who reached out to the Net Generation? Who pointed out the similarities between the hypocrisy of Dubya and Obama? Who created the modern tea party? Who taught America what the No Such Agency was?

And who brought more than a few into Republican primaries and created the dialog about how the GOP could move past Dubya and Cheney, become relevant again, and lose the stigma?

Tell us who did that, Matt Collins, and if you ever want to be relevant again, be honest about it. Because we know you saw it all happen?

I'm asking you two questions. Can you give credit where it's due? And can you finally begin to see the big picture? Because the Big Picture is too big to fit inside campaign headquarters, Matt.
Ron played a big part of that as an early adopter, but Republican fallacies and hypocrisy did become obvious and self-evident towards the end of Bush's term. Most of the tea partiers were not fans of Ron but yet began to adopt a lot of Ron's economic policies after the bailouts.
 
Probably the source of much angst.

Ron Paul get's it. His handlers? Probably not so much. I think we need both, but, that won't happen when the campaign is striking down the part of the movement that embodies the man that inspired it.

It's like trying to kill off the best part of, "Who is Ron Paul"




http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-became-a-revolution-2012-5?op=1
And Ron is largely ineffective because of this... Audit the Fed would have never passed the House if Campaign for Libety hadn't pushed it as hard.
 
No, I never said you were a betrayer, and I never questioned your dedication to the cause of liberty, that is beyond repute. But openly and publicly trashing a liberty campaign was a tactless, unprofessional, and rude thing to do. Although beside the point, but especially when you were incorrect in your strategy.

Yeah, because the campaign strategy worked so great that Brannon lost. But Gunny winning was a fluke, right? :rolleyes:
You should conduct some internal polls of the grassroots of the liberty movement, Matt. I think you will find you have very poor favorability numbers at this point. And I mean among those who actually have become delegates and are willing to do so. You know, the people who actually matter in politics. Its a bad sign for Rand Paul that Benton and other potential staffers are disliked by those Rand needs to win.
 
Ron played a big part of that as an early adopter, but Republican fallacies and hypocrisy did become obvious and self-evident towards the end of Bush's term. Most of the tea partiers were not fans of Ron but yet began to adopt a lot of Ron's economic policies after the bailouts.

If that's all you can say, then I guess the answers are no. No, you can't see the big picture, and no, you are not capable of giving credit where credit is due.

Well, then.
 
It's more effective to get voters to vote for your guy than it is to get non-voters to go vote for your guy.

Raise your hand if you vote and Matt Collin's "liberty community liaison" work is swaying your opinion to say "Fug it, I'm out."

tumblr_mbhsx2bxMQ1ror6v2.gif


He sure is working hard to disenfranchise that 6% that sways elections. Which leads me to determine that he is nothing more than a plant for the opposition.
 
If that's all you can say, then I guess the answers are no. No, you can't see the big picture, and no, you are not capable of giving credit where credit is due.

Well, then.

That's the most frustrating thing about this conversation. First, the blimp was a bad idea because the money that was spent was not spent on targeting likely voters effectively. Fair point. But then, later on, the same guy says that the campaign was not about winning. It was about messaging. Getting Ron Paul's name recognized, and his message heard.

Well then, then it's pretty obvious that the campaign had very little to do with that. They were out not buying media and missing important interviews while we were hanging signs off of interstate overpasses and spamming the backs of stop signs with unofficial bumper stickers. Flying blimps around. Getting Ron Paul interviewed because the media learned that their viewership and web hits skyrocketed when Ron Paul appeared. We did that, not them.

And they are still here telling us that it didn't matter. We did it wrong. Which at this point is just a self serving lie because the campaign has admitted they were not running to win. Honestly - why is Matt here trashing the grassroots for not knowing how to win elections while yammering on about how to win an election when everybody knows the campaign wasn't running to win? It's those constantly moving goal posts.....he's bitching about losing a race he wasn't even running in.

FFS - I was in an official campaign office, and we couldn't even get official campaign material. DH got on the phone with Benton, and to his credit he had Michigan and a couple of other states sent us their leftovers after their primary ended. But here's the kicker - most of it was grassroots stuff which we were not supposed to hand out, but since it was that or nothing.....I can already hear Collins tsk tsking...how dare we pass out things that were not approved by the campaign, while ignoring the fact that the campaign left us no real choice. Remember - this was after the grassroots money bombs that filled their coffers with more money than they possibly dreamed of going into 2007. There was literally no version of any official budget in existence that they couldn't easily fund four times over.

It was a fluke that we raised so much money. It was a fluke that Ron Paul's name recognition literally quadrupled. Everything the campaign wasn't responsible for was either a fluke or it was wrong. Everything the campaign did was.....well, not much, really.

Votes be damned. We gave Ron Paul what Ron Paul wanted. Hell, we gave the campaign what the campaign covertly wanted. The campaign could not and did not.

And their self important little egos just can't stand that. We spent money without their approval. They didn't get to harvest and sell our email addresses. They didn't get a chance to tell those people the race was still on while plotting to actually use the money collected from youngest, most gullible supporters to fund a new organization.

They truly represent the absolute worst of the liberty movement - those that embed themselves in it just to glean a paycheck, with a management style that consists of aggressive hostile paranoid protectionism at its best.

They don't have it in them to say it was the perfect storm of spontaneous organization and that everybody played their role perfectly, and that while it was fun and profitable, it's unlikely we will ever experience that again, so some of us need to move into more conventional roles and tactics.

They are truly some of the worst humans in the liberty movement. Power hungry and self important.
 
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Raise your hand if you vote and Matt Collin's "liberty community liaison" work is swaying your opinion to say "Fug it, I'm out."

It's interesting how that works. It probably shouldn't work like that, but it often does.

The same effect can apply to sports. ;)

"I can't stand the Dodgers!"
"Why?"
"Cause I used to know this guy that was a big Dodgers fan and he sold peanuts at the stadium. I couldn't stand him!"
 
So Matt, let's go back to the original post. Knowing what we know now, that there are more than one reason to run a political campaign, and that the 2007 campaign was not about winning - it was about increasing name recognition....how on Earth can you say it was a fail? Here we are 7 years later with a name recognition factor that is far higher than anybody dreamed of attaining, and one of the only things that anybody remembers is the damned blimp?

Well, that and this ad, which was produced by the official campaign. But we sure don't remember it because it was good .....




Oh yeah, the shifty smoking tattooed Mexican guy wearing a hat wrong on the official literature....

mailer.jpg
 
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Ummm, yeah, pretty much all of this.

The highlighted is EXACTLY what happened in NH as well, and I was not the only one who noticed it.

ETA - After reading that again, I realize that you were referring to the 2007 campaign, which is even worse, because what I saw was in 2011-2012.

Four years and the geniuses sitting around with more degrees than a thermometer still couldn't figure it out.

And now, after picking up the fumble and running the ball down the field, we're being told by self-important talking heads like Collins here, that "you're doing it all wrong".

Fuck that.

That's the most frustrating thing about this conversation. First, the blimp was a bad idea because the money that was spent was not spent on targeting likely voters effectively. Fair point. But then, later on, the same guy says that the campaign was not about winning. It was about messaging. Getting Ron Paul's name recognized, and his message heard.

Well then, then it's pretty obvious that the campaign had very little to do with that. They were out not buying media and missing important interviews while we were hanging signs off of interstate overpasses and spamming the backs of stop signs with unofficial bumper stickers. Flying blimps around. Getting Ron Paul interviewed because the media learned that their viewership and web hits skyrocketed when Ron Paul appeared. We did that, not them.

And they are still here telling us that it didn't matter. We did it wrong. Which at this point is just a self serving lie because the campaign has admitted they were not running to win. Honestly - why is Matt here trashing the grassroots for not knowing how to win elections while yammering on about how to win an election when everybody knows the campaign wasn't running to win? It's those constantly moving goal posts.....he's bitching about losing a race he wasn't even running in.

FFS - I was in an official campaign office, and we couldn't even get official campaign material. DH got on the phone with Benton, and to his credit he had Michigan and a couple of other states sent us their leftovers after their primary ended. But here's the kicker - most of it was grassroots stuff which we were not supposed to hand out, but since it was that or nothing.....I can already hear Collins tsk tsking...how dare we pass out things that were not approved by the campaign, while ignoring the fact that the campaign left us no real choice. Remember - this was after the grassroots money bombs that filled their coffers with more money than they possibly dreamed of going into 2007. There was literally no version of any official budget in existence that they couldn't easily fund four times over.


It was a fluke that we raised so much money. It was a fluke that Ron Paul's name recognition literally quadrupled. Everything the campaign wasn't responsible for was either a fluke or it was wrong. Everything the campaign did was.....well, not much, really.

Votes be damned. We gave Ron Paul what Ron Paul wanted. Hell, we gave the campaign what the campaign covertly wanted. The campaign could not and did not.

And their self important little egos just can't stand that. We spent money without their approval. They didn't get to harvest and sell our email addresses. They didn't get a chance to tell those people the race was still on while plotting to actually use the money collected from youngest, most gullible supporters to fund a new organization.

They truly represent the absolute worst of the liberty movement - those that embed themselves in it just to glean a paycheck, with a management style that consists of aggressive hostile paranoid protectionism at its best.

They don't have it in them to say it was the perfect storm of spontaneous organization and that everybody played their role perfectly, and that while it was fun and profitable, it's unlikely we will ever experience that again, so some of us need to move into more conventional roles and tactics.

They are truly some of the worst humans in the liberty movement. Power hungry and self important.
 
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