7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Win)

[Chosen]

Yes.

The .308 has to be one of the most proven rounds in existence. There has probably been more data, research and development on this caliber than any other.

If you are looking to get an all around sniping round, with accuracy and take down power out to 800meters/875yards, this is probably your best bet. The Marine Corps utilizes 1000 yards as maximum range...

This round also has worldwide popularity, so finding ammunition is relatively easy.

If you own a rifle in .308 win you should probably have a box of these stowed away, even tho' they are pricey:
Winchester Supreme .308 168gr Nosler Ballistic Silver Tip.

Curious to see what arms folks have in this caliber or think of this round.

 

[Uriel999]

I don't have a .308 but I do find the round to be one of those that are essentially magic.

 

[Kalifornia]

once you factor in availability, universality, and competence of the platforms it is available in the .308 win or 7.62x51 is probably the best long rifle cartridge ever, followed closely by the 30.06 (which probably has a box or two in closet with a bolt action deer rifle somewhere in 30 million homes).

I will say that it appears that the 6.5 Grendel, based on pure balistics, appears to be capable of giving the .308 a run for its money though, in a lighter platform, that can run through 5.56 lowers and also damn impressive out to a thousand meters. The fact that its still experimental and platforms are only sold by two or three manufacturers means that unless the military adapts it, the .308 will remain king.

 

[Chosen]

once you factor in availability, universality, and competence of the platforms it is available in the .308 win or 7.62x51 is probably the best long rifle cartridge ever, followed closely by the 30.06 (which probably has a box or two in closet with a bolt action deer rifle somewhere in 30 million homes).

I will say that it appears that the 6.5 Grendel, based on pure balistics, appears to be capable of giving the .308 a run for its money though, in a lighter platform, that can run through 5.56 lowers and also damn impressive out to a thousand meters. The fact that its still experimental and platforms are only sold by two or three manufacturers means that unless the military adapts it, the .308 will remain king.

Yeah. I have heard good things about the grendels ballistics. Does the Grendel require new mags? I'm thinking it does but I cannot remember.

There are a few rounds that beat the .308 in ballistics.

I think it wins over many with consistency tho'.

An AR in .308 is a potent rifle.

Here's a good .308 link.
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

 

[Kalifornia]

Yeah. I have heard good things about the grendels ballistics. Does the Grendel require new mags? I'm thinking it does but I cannot remember.

There are a few rounds that beat the .308 in ballistics.

I think it wins over many with consistency tho'.

An AR in .308 is a potent rifle.

Here's a good .308 link.
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

Yeah. New mags, new upper. then of course you have to invest in new brass and all the other bells and whistles.

there are alot of rounds that beat the .308 ballistically (the GRE's advantage is that it gets 'close' to .308 performance in a smaller, lighter package). I dont know of any I want to go semi-auto with tho I like my shoulder bones relatively free of fractures.

edit: I wouldnt mind a semi-auto .50 bmg... but thats no carrying around rifle, and Im pretty sure I wouldnt be firing that without a bipod.

 

[Time for Change]

.... I like my shoulder bones relatively free of fractures.

+1

 

[madengr]

I have a couple of DSA FALs; a 21" and 16".

 

[ghengis86]

how much does one round weigh compared to .223 (not the bullet, but the entire package)? would one not be able to carry as many rounds on their person as compared to a smaller caliber? is that even a concern?

just curious what you all think.

 

[Kalifornia]

how much does one round weigh compared to .223 (not the bullet, but the entire package)? would one not be able to carry as many rounds on their person as compared to a smaller caliber? is that even a concern?

just curious what you all think.

the .308 is considerably larger and heavier than the 5.56, which is a big part of the reason that the military standardized on the 5.56 back in the day. I believe the consensus is that You can carry roughly 2 .308s for every 3 5.56s as a rough rule of thumb.

Everything about the .308 platform is heavier, the rifle, the ammo, the mags, etc.

as far as the weight of each individual bullet, thats going to depend alot on the loading. There are roughly 450 grains per oz. 5.56 bullets come in sizes from 40gr to 90gr, and I think .308s come in the 100-150grain range (thats a guesstimate, Im too lazy to look it up)... then there is the primer and brass. The .308 cartridge is considerably bigger. Not sure what it weighs. Im sure the .308 has alot more powder as well. It takes in the 40-50grain range? Not sure about 5.56.

 

[Pennsylvania]

I was just thinking about selling my AR-15 and going the sniper route soon. I'd start with .308 most likely.

 

[ghengis86]

i guess you have to figure if you're going to reach out and touch someone or if you're going to be up close and personal. the more distance between you and your target the better though

 

[Kalifornia]

I was just thinking about selling my AR-15 and going the sniper route soon. I'd start with .308 most likely.

If you have a carbine, why would you ever sell it? they are two different tools for completely different jobs.

Would you sell your pocket knife to buy a shotgun?

 

[TruckinMike]

I don't have a .308 but I do find the round to be one of those that are essentially magic.

Its only magic if you know:

• the six steps to firing a shot
• your come ups out to 1000 yards
• windage

for more information see project Appleseed

TMike

 

[Pennsylvania]

If you have a carbine, why would you ever sell it? they are two different tools for completely different jobs.

Would you sell your pocket knife to buy a shotgun?

limited funds my friend

 

[Kalifornia]

limited funds my friend

then keep the carbine. seriously. a bolt action sniper rifle isnt going to do much good if thugs come crashing through your door.

 

[xd9fan]

limited funds my friend

then you do what americans used to do but no longer think they should do....and that is:
you make do and wait.

I will never sell a gun, not in these times.

 

[Pericles]

the .308 is considerably larger and heavier than the 5.56, which is a big part of the reason that the military standardized on the 5.56 back in the day. I believe the consensus is that You can carry roughly 2 .308s for every 3 5.56s as a rough rule of thumb.

Everything about the .308 platform is heavier, the rifle, the ammo, the mags, etc.

as far as the weight of each individual bullet, thats going to depend alot on the loading. There are roughly 450 grains per oz. 5.56 bullets come in sizes from 40gr to 90gr, and I think .308s come in the 100-150grain range (thats a guesstimate, Im too lazy to look it up)... then there is the primer and brass. The .308 cartridge is considerably bigger. Not sure what it weighs. Im sure the .308 has alot more powder as well. It takes in the 40-50grain range? Not sure about 5.56.

What the Army considered a "basic load" (the minimum you were expected to have) when going into action was WWII and Korea 88 rds of .30-06, then 100 rds of .308, in Vietnam 180 rds of 5.56, and since Gulf I, 210 rds of 5.56. Because of the ammo shortage in 2004 and 2005, some troops in Iraq went outside the wire with as few as 60 rds.

 

[Kalifornia]

since Gulf I, 210 rds of 5.56. Because of the ammo shortage in 2004 and 2005, some troops in Iraq went outside the wire with as few as 60 rds.

that's inconceivable. I know people who walk around with more rounds than that. I can't imagine going out to pick a fight with 2 mags....

an acqaintance of mine got back from the suck last year. he was the squad marksman, so rolled with 240 rounds of 556 and 120 rounds of 762. he ran out of 556 several times. in a year.

 

[Pericles]

that's inconceivable. I know people who walk around with more rounds than that. I can't imagine going out to pick a fight with 2 mags....

an acqaintance of mine got back from the suck last year. he was the squad marksman, so rolled with 240 rounds of 556 and 120 rounds of 762. he ran out of 556 several times. in a year.

Suppose you had 130K troops and they should have a basic load of ammunition - 23.7 mil rds, and the Lake City ammunition plant produces less than 200 mil rds of 5.56 per year. Combat can present a problem. That is why the Army bought 5.56 from Israel, the UK, and Germany. That is why production at Lake City had to be greatly expanded in 2004 to 2006. Consumption was far exceeding production.

Look at annual consumption for training and annual qualification. 50K trainees and 300K troops consume about 35 mil rds per year.

And there are some Marines, and they also use 5.56 ....

Then reserve and national guard at another 65 mil rds per year.

Something to keep in mind when seriously thinking about the military being used for law enforcement or firearm confiscation - they don't have enough ammunition to send everyone out with a basic load.

Old army saying - amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.

 

[Chosen]

Old army saying - amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.

Yes.

When I first read Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton I had to fight disdain going into it. Once I finished this book, every other study of strategy and tactics came into a different light. It is the one constant universal to withstand changes in strategic fetish and operations.

The M24 in .308 has proven perfect for the mixed distance task of Iraq. Although I have heard of .338 and .300 manifestations being present, mainly among private forces.

150gr .308 in Ballistics Gel:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1696.htm