7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Win)

[Pennsylvania]

The M24 in .308 has proven perfect for the mixed distance task of Iraq.

What is the civilian equivalent of this gun? I was looking at the m-24 out of curiosity last night.

 

[Pericles]

What is the civilian equivalent of this gun? I was looking at the m-24 out of curiosity last night.

Remington 700BDL

 

[Pericles]

Yes.

When I first read Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton I had to fight disdain going into it. Once I finished this book, every other study of strategy and tactics came into a different light. It is the one constant universal to withstand changes in strategic fetish and operations.

I spent much of my time on active duty in battalion and brigade operations - could you tell?

Anybody noticed that there is almost no 5.56 to be had on the market? Every round we buy can't be used against us.

 

[ghengis86]

I spent much of my time on active duty in battalion and brigade operations - could you tell?

Anybody noticed that there is almost no 5.56 to be had on the market? Every round we buy can't be used against us.

1,000 rds of Wolf .223 is $300 at my local shop.

 

[Pericles]

1,000 rds of Wolf .223 is $300 at my local shop.

True - there is usually Wolf to be had, and it generally works. But there is a difference in .223 and 5.56mm ammunition. The military uses 5.56 and the US has used 2 types of main battle ammunition (there is also tracer, armor piercing, SOCOM load, blank, and such) that is issued as the basic load. The M193 ball for the M16 and M16A1 (no longer in service with the Army and Marines), and M855 ball for the M16A2, M16A3 (Navy - mainly SEAL and Seabees), M16A4, and M4.

I mention this because it is an important part of the story. The US had 4 small arms ammunition plants until the '90s. All 4 manufactured M193 ammunition, but as the Army transitioned to the M16A2, only Lake City produced M855 ball. The Cold War ended, and the other 3 plants were shut down. M855 production at Lake City never really ramped up until 2005. This means that the US does not have a substantial inventory of M855 ammunition. M855 is important because it is NATO standard, and is what was purchased during the shortage, but the UK loads their SS109 (NATO designation) to the minimum velocity, which is about 100 fps slower than US M855 - it does not work in the M4 because of the shorter barrel length, so British SS109 had to be issued to and used by the 20 inch rifles.

There being no other plant, and Lake City running at full capacity, there is little M855 to be had - what we non mil can get comes from Serbia and meets the NATO spec and is at the low end for velocity for M855, or is commercial manufacture M855. Both sources subject to disruption by the .gov. If anything happened to Lake City, the .gov would have a serious problem, too. Because none of the other plants converted to M855, there is no machinery in war reserve to insure continuity.

The implications of this are that the military will not use .223 ammo (Wolf, Centurion, PMC, etc.) unless there is absolutely nothing left, and that will be a major problem for the supply system. .223 has a lower velocity than the military M193 or M855 ball, so it behaves differently at range. Look at the price of ammo in the last 5 years - the squeeze is on.

 

[Chosen]

I spent much of my time on active duty in battalion and brigade operations - could you tell?

Anybody noticed that there is almost no 5.56 to be had on the market? Every round we buy can't be used against us.

Yes, but it is a good point to be made about supply, even down to a small tactical level. You didn't happen to be S4 or BMO ?

 

[Chosen]

What is the civilian equivalent of this gun? I was looking at the m-24 out of curiosity last night.

As mentioned the Remington 700. There are many flavors. One could purchase a stock 700 in .308 and upgrade as they go/can afford. There are tons of aftermarket items for the 700.

I have seen folks build them into an "M24" over time. But many base model 700's shoot phenomenal out of the box. Some start by glass/pillar bedding or getting a trigger kit.

 

[Pericles]

Yes, but it is a good point to be made about supply, even down to a small tactical level. You didn't happen to be S4 or BMO ?

BN S-3 and BDE Asst. S-3 I've drawn so many overlays ....... You can only go as far as the S-4 can deliver fuel, beans, and bullets.

 

[Chosen]

I spent much of my time on active duty in battalion and brigade operations - could you tell?

You may consider extolling some of your expertise in regards to supply and resupply in a version that citizens could find helpful. Something along the lines of Supply and Resupply considerations for Citizen Patriots in practical pamphlet form would do more good than you will ever know!

 

[fgd]

Another fun round based on the .308 is the .260 Remington. More energy at longer distances, better BC, less thump on the shoulder.

 

[Pericles]

You may consider extolling some of your expertise in regards to supply and resupply in a version that citizens could find helpful. Something along the lines of Supply and Resupply considerations for Citizen Patriots in practical pamphlet form would do more good than you will ever know!

I'll be putting that over at AWRM. It might be helpful to our fellow patriots.

S-4 "we're not rationing ammunition, we just have a controlled supply rate"

Me: We're screwed.

 

[Chosen]

I'll be putting that over at AWRM. It might be helpful to our fellow patriots.

S-4 "we're not rationing ammunition, we just have a controlled supply rate"

Me: We're screwed.

Hahaha yes.

I look forward to its publication.

 

[Uriel999]

Its only magic if you know:

• the six steps to firing a shot
• your come ups out to 1000 yards
• windage

for more information see project Appleseed

TMike

appleseed does not come to my area. So I will keep referring to that round as magic. Besides, not owning a rifle in .308 makes it seem more mystical.

 

[Chosen]

I'll be putting that over at AWRM. It might be helpful to our fellow patriots.

How goes that pamphlet?

 

[Pericles]

Being back from a weekend stroll in the woods, I'll get right on it.

 

[jkm1864]

Oh btw another point to consider ..... Rifle plates will not stop a .308 round. So if some communists come bashing in Your door with armor its nice to know You can grease them. I like my .223 ar15 but I have to be honest its just a glorified .22LR. Now I am sorry but my M1A well as far as I am concerned thats a real combat weapon....

Oh another point though I love my M1A but its impossible to put a scope on it because it was never designed for it. I will have to change out the whole stock in the future so I can get a good cheek weld.

 

[Gideon]

Excellent point!

If you have a carbine, why would you ever sell it? they are two different tools for completely different jobs.

...

Do your best to keep both the carbine and the battle rifle, as the two have different applications.

I tried to sell this .308 battle rifle, a few years ago, because I was short on cash. No takers at the time, and now I am very glad that I did not let her go.

 

[Chosen]

Do your best to keep both the carbine and the battle rifle, as the two have different applications.

I tried to sell this .308 battle rifle, a few years ago, because I was short on cash. No takers at the time, and now I am very glad that I did not let her go.

Your rifle was telling you something. She is meant to be with you.

 

[agentl074]

Well I know that the .308 is an excellent caliber and even my AR-10 Carbine can be a good mid range sniper rifle as the barrel is sturdy and not much velocity is lost with the .308 in a 16" barrel as opposed to the .30-06. I feel that my little rifle can fit dual purposes nicely.