$650,000 Left in Ron's Presidential Campaign

[mport1]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it. That sort of fiscal responsibility, which so many of us admire, may have hurt the campaign in the long run- it is certainly one of the reasons that there is a large amount of money left over. Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

I know there are those who think he should have spent every penny on the campaign, right up to the bitter end- putting up an utterly pointless and futile fight, sort of like Hitler refusing to surrender even when the Russians were entering Berlin.

But we know that above all, Ron Paul is practical. He could have blown through the money and maybe got a couple of extra percentage points and an extra delegate or two in the late primaries- but it would have made NO DIFFERENCE as far as the nomination is concerned. Essentially, he would have been spending the money just to spend the money (which, I gather, is what some of you wanted to see).

By using the money for the CFL (or similar), the money can be deployed to advance the cause long into the future. It might not make some of you feel good right now, but its a far more practical and effective long term strategy than blowing the money on a lost campaign.

If you feel you've been "wronged", you are free to curl up into a fetal position and have a good cry, but I'm not sure that is going to help the country in the long run.

Hopefully when you are done feeling sorry for yourself, you'll get back up and continue to fight for what's best for our country...

Okay, that may have been a bit harsh, but I'm not really the nurturing type. If you want a tissue or a shoulder to cry on, I'm sure someone on these boards will provide it. Nurturing types, help me out here...

Agreed.

 

[Sally08]

Thats the law.

It may be the law.

However, that also means that I will never donate to any campaign again.

The first thing we tell our children is NEVER GIVE OUT YOUR NAME OR YOUR CITY OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION.

And then, what do we "adults" do? Give out our exact street addresses!

Pick a name, any name, from the FEC donors lists and look it up on www.pipl.com (try your own name).

For many of the results listings, the *exact* birthday shows up.

How many times are you asked for your date of birth to prove who you are with various customer service departments?

So, yes, this campaign season has been a "learning experience"

 

[Kalifornia]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it. That sort of fiscal responsibility, which so many of us admire, may have hurt the campaign in the long run- it is certainly one of the reasons that there is a large amount of money left over. Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

I know there are those who think he should have spent every penny on the campaign, right up to the bitter end- putting up an utterly pointless and futile fight, sort of like Hitler refusing to surrender even when the Russians were entering Berlin.

But we know that above all, Ron Paul is practical. He could have blown through the money and maybe got a couple of extra percentage points and an extra delegate or two in the late primaries- but it would have made NO DIFFERENCE as far as the nomination is concerned. Essentially, he would have been spending the money just to spend the money (which, I gather, is what some of you wanted to see).

By using the money for the CFL (or similar), the money can be deployed to advance the cause long into the future. It might not make some of you feel good right now, but its a far more practical and effective long term strategy than blowing the money on a lost campaign.

If you feel you've been "wronged", you are free to curl up into a fetal position and have a good cry, but I'm not sure that is going to help the country in the long run.

Hopefully when you are done feeling sorry for yourself, you'll get back up and continue to fight for what's best for our country...

Okay, that may have been a bit harsh, but I'm not really the nurturing type. If you want a tissue or a shoulder to cry on, I'm sure someone on these boards will provide it. Nurturing types, help me out here...

1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do.

2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE.

3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future.

4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning.

 

[Sally08]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it.

Isn't a major issue the fact that RP did not spend the money wisely *after* he had it, to the tune of $4+ million unused?

Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

And if RP's intent was to *spread the message* vs. *get the nomination*, then why weren't the donations used to continue to spread the message vs. sitting in a bank devaluing by the day?

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

Apparently, you failed to read the OP. The vast majority of the remaining funds have been transferred to the Congressional campaign, NOT to CFL.

And your option 1) was not the intended use of donations. They should have been used for an ongoing *marketing* campaign, particularly if RP had honored his promise to stay in the race until the RNC.

If the whole point of RP's actions has been to get his message out, then why weren't the funds used to do exactly that *before* a state's primaries and *before* a state's convention to specify the state GOP platform planks and *before* the national delegates were elected?

 

[Sally08]

2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE.

Actually, I had more of a problem if the millions in unused funds had gone to the CFL with the same apparent lack of management experience as has been so clearly demonstrated by HQ.

I have never donated to a foundation-type organization, since I worked at one charity where 96% of the donations were simply used as working capital for the charity!

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Maybe the cfl isn't all it is cracked up to me and ron saw that. I don't care for plenty of the cfl crew anyways and maybe ron got wise to it as well. Maybe he is done fighting and wants us to continue it OR maybe he had a secret plan the entire time to pretend to run for president just so he could stuff his congressional coffers.. Who really knows BUT either way, he woke up ALOT of people here in America and I think that is priceless, I just wish he would have used that 4 million to CONTINUE waking up even more people.

 

[Kalifornia]

Actually, I had more of a problem if the millions in unused funds had gone to the CFL with the same apparent lack of management experience as has been so clearly demonstrated by HQ.

I have never donated to a foundation-type organization, since I worked at one charity where 96% of the donations were simply used as working capital for the charity!

I agree that the election campaign was poorly run, but this is more a function of Ron hiring amateurs, imho. And yeah, the CFL is likely to be just as ineffective, but at least it is remotely similar to the original reason I gave the cash. The Congressional campaign might as well be another planet as texas.

Plus, I remember hearing somewhere that at some point unused congressional campaign coffers get to be converted to the private property of the congressmen after so many years of nonuse. Someone PLEASE correct me if I am remembering that incorrectly.

 

[Soccrmastr]

....let me ask you this...

Did you ever think that Ron Paul truly had a chance to become president?


I never did. You think the corruption would allow it?

I maxed out, I spent probably 1000+ hours on campaigning.
And I continue.
I'm not pissed. Everything is going as I thought it would.
It continues. It grows.

I guess you don't get it?

+1

 

[libertarian4321]

"1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do."

A whiner is a whiner, even if he tries to sound "tough". Unfortunately for you, I'm still out of tissue.

"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

"3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future."

There is no chance that the bulk of the money will be going to congressional campaign expenses. Ron is 72 years old. Even if he decides to run 5 more times (unlikely) and those campaigns are significantly contested (almost no chance of that, either), he'd never spend that much money on congressional campaigns.

"4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning."

Okay, okay, I was wrong. You aren't just a whiner, you're a childish whiner. My mistake. I never said I was perfect. I apologize.

BTW, when you get to high school, join the debate team, they'll tell you that a weak argument is not strengthened by the use of profanity.

You may now re-assume the fetal position...

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well..I don't understand why he needs over 3 million $$ when he has no opponant. I find it strange, of course, I don't know campaign finance law either. TONES

 

[Kalifornia]

"1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do."

A whiner is a whiner, even if he tries to sound "tough". Unfortunately for you, I'm still out of tissue.

Clearly you arent out of summers eve.

"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul.

"3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future."

There is no chance that the bulk of the money will be going to congressional campaign expenses. Ron is 72 years old. Even if he decides to run 5 more times (unlikely) and those campaigns are significantly contested (almost no chance of that, either), he'd never spend that much money on congressional campaigns.

Actually 3M sounds like about 5 really well funded congressional campaigns. Didnt he just spend a million on this last congressional primary?

"4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning."

Okay, okay, I was wrong. You aren't just a whiner, you're a childish whiner. My mistake. I never said I was perfect. I apologize.

BTW, when you get to high school, join the debate team, they'll tell you that a weak argument is not strengthened by the use of profanity.

You may now re-assume the fetal position...

I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant.

Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?

Oh, thats right, you didnt. You opted for the AS in condescension and alienation from the internet school of douchebaggery.

 

[LibertyEagle]

At this point in time, we don't know how much of the money is going to be funneled back to CFL. Hopefully, quite a lot, but we simply do not know yet.

Keep in mind that the Campaign for Liberty is paying for that huge rally in Saint Paul. They're not paying for that out of exhaust fumes, you know.

 

[libertarian4321]

Isn't a major issue the fact that RP did not spend the money wisely *after* he had it, to the tune of $4+ million unused?

The last 4 million the campaign raised would have largely come from the last two large "money bombs" held in late January and early February. The campaign was effectively over by late February- using the funds past that point would have accomplished essentially nothing.

It takes time to spend money. Its not like you get the money today and have ads running the next day. Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

By all accounts, Ron was not willing to run his campaign that way as a matter of principal. So yes, he probably sacrificed some effectiveness, and left some money on the table, because he refused to play the game the way other politicians do. We can debate whether putting principal ahead of "doing whatever it takes to win" was a good idea or not- I happen to think it was, others will disagree. Its really unfortunate that so much of the money Ron raised came late in the campaign (December, January, February). If it had come a couple of months earlier (or if the primaries hadn't been pushed so far forward), who knows, this thing may have turned out far better than it did.

In any event, I don't believe that Ron was trying to "screw us" or whatever some folks are thinking. He ran the campaign the way he thought was best, and came up short, though did far better than any expected him to do.

It sucks, but thats life- you don't always win, but you keep fighting and maybe win next time. I guarantee you that if you just give up and quit, you'll never win...

 

[LibertyEagle]

Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

Yes and as I recall, there were quite a few people on here who criticized Murray Sabrin for doing just that.

 

[Sally08]

"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Sounds like money laundering to me under those circumstances.

There definitely is/will be a "paper trail" as to which money transfers move from/to which bank accounts and when.

And wouldn't it have been nice to have received an e-mail explaining the intended allocation of those excess funds, as well as a link to the newly released FEC reports vs. finding out in a newspaper article?

Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

I believe the original article is quoting the published FEC reports.

Do those FEC reports represent reliable information as to how monies "are actually used" as legally reported by HQ?

 

[libertarian4321]

"I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul. "

Again, you know NOTHING. Whether the money is currently in the Pres. campaign coffers or the cong. campaign coffers tells you NOTHING about its ultimate distribution.

He can transfer it from EITHER campaign to the CFL anytime he wants to.

Or he can use it for future campaigns.

Or he can spend it on booze and strippers.

Or he can pocket the money.

His choice. Those are the rules.

But until the money is actually spent, you know NOTHING. All the ranting and swearing in the world won't change that fact.


"I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant."

Your conclusion was that Ron "F-d you". Sorry, son, I'm not going to "debate" that kind of nonsense.

"Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?"

Its one thing to curse at me and call me names, but to even imply that I might be a lawyer is just a low blow. If you use ad hominem attacks, I'd rather you stick to calling me a d-bag than "lawyer"- leave me with some dignity.

One of the things I really liked about Dr. Paul is that he had a real degree and wasn't just another sleazy lawyer (yes, I know thats redundant).

BTW, one does not have to go to "law school" to be on the debate team. We have them in engineering schools, we have them in B-school, and I'm pretty sure they have them at just about every other college/university as well.

 

[libertarian4321]

Yes and as I recall, there were quite a few people on here who criticized Murray Sabrin for doing just that.

Yup- thats the problem.

Just about everyone here thinks he's an expert at running campaigns, though I'd guess that few here have ever even run for Junior High class President.

No matter what the campaign does, someone is going to whine- as if they could have done it better.

Spend too fast, someone whines, spend too slow, someone else whines. The campaign can't win, no matter what they do.

See, thats why they hire a staff to run the campaign and just do the best they can, ignoring the bitching, moaning, and wailing from the people on these boards- because they can't run a campaign trying to please 10,000+ "experts" on a forum...

I'm still not doing very well with the nurturing, am I?

 

[Kalifornia]

"I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul. "

Again, you know NOTHING. Whether the money is currently in the Pres. campaign coffers or the cong. campaign coffers tells you NOTHING about its ultimate distribution.

He can transfer it from EITHER campaign to the CFL anytime he wants to.

Or he can use it for future campaigns.

Or he can spend it on booze and strippers.

Or he can pocket the money.

His choice. Those are the rules.

But until the money is actually spent, you know NOTHING. All the ranting and swearing in the world won't change that fact.

Since you cant figure out how to use quote tags, I think engineering school probably didnt happen either. And I can tell you that no engineering school I have ever heard of (and I have heard of many), or business school for that matter, has a debate team. Many undergrad colleges do, but most are for the service of those who intend to study law later. By the time you get to law school they are known as mock trial or moot court. If you had been to any school other than the internet school of D-bag, youd probably know that.

Back on point, the fact that Ron CAN do something, does not mean that he SHOULD, or that it is moral, or that it does not break a promise he made. In fact, this shifting of moneys to the congressional campaign violate all three of those measures.

I know all I need to to make a decision, and to talk about it, if you dont like it, lump it.

"I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant."

Your conclusion was that Ron "F-d you". Sorry, son, I'm not going to "debate" that kind of nonsense.

sounds like a sad excuse from a debatatarian fanboy.

"Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?"

Its one thing to curse at me and call me names, but to even imply that I might be a lawyer is just a low blow. If you use ad hominem attacks, I'd rather you stick to calling me a d-bag than "lawyer"- leave me with some dignity.

As if I need to do anything for you to lose dignity.

One of the things I really liked about Dr. Paul is that he had a real degree and wasn't just another sleazy lawyer (yes, I know thats redundant).

Oh yes, real degree. right. In case you have forgotten, Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer.

 

[Kalifornia]

Yup- thats the problem.

Just about everyone here thinks he's an expert at running campaigns, though I'd guess that few here have ever even run for Junior High class President.

No matter what the campaign does, someone is going to whine- as if they could have done it better.

Spend too fast, someone whines, spend too slow, someone else whines. The campaign can't win, no matter what they do.

See, thats why they hire a staff to run the campaign and just do the best they can, ignoring the bitching, moaning, and wailing from the people on these boards- because they can't run a campaign trying to please 10,000+ "experts" on a forum...

I'm still not doing very well with the nurturing, am I?

You should probably start by making some damned sense before you bother with nurturing.

 

[Sally08]

The last 4 million the campaign raised would have largely come from the last two large "money bombs" held in late January and early February. The campaign was effectively over by late February- using the funds past that point would have accomplished essentially nothing.

You are totally missing my point. Whether or not the campaign was "effectively over" by late February, why weren't the unused millions used for a *marketing* campaign for March, April, May, June, July, and August? To impact the GOP *platform* and the talking points for the general election?

It takes time to spend money. Its not like you get the money today and have ads running the next day. Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

Given the *millions* that were unused, the possibility of going into debt is irrelevant.

By all accounts, Ron was not willing to run his campaign that way as a matter of principal. So yes, he probably sacrificed some effectiveness, and left some money on the table, because he refused to play the game the way other politicians do.

$4+ million is more than leaving "some money on the table".

We can debate whether putting principal ahead of "doing whatever it takes to win" was a good idea or not- I happen to think it was, others will disagree.

The issue being discussed is whether it was "principal" to not spend the excess millions or *intentional strategy* to not do so, so the funds could be transferred and *used* for other purposes.

Its really unfortunate that so much of the money Ron raised came late in the campaign (December, January, February). If it had come a couple of months earlier (or if the primaries hadn't been pushed so far forward), who knows, this thing may have turned out far better than it did.

Again, you are talking about the *election*, not the *marketing of the message*.

In any event, I don't believe that Ron was trying to "screw us" or whatever some folks are thinking. He ran the campaign the way he thought was best, and came up short, though did far better than any expected him to do..

I see these opposing interpretations of the campaign:

1. RP is very intelligent and all the obvious mistakes were actually intentional strategic decisions or
2. RP made a lot of very bad decisions, particularly in terms of who he hired for his paid staff.

Is either interpretation appropriate for someone who we were hoping to become President? If the second option is the situation, what kind of Cabinet would have been put in place with how little oversight?

How RP did was in spite of his actions and his management of his paid campaign staff. He did well because of the *grass roots efforts*.

It sucks, but thats life- you don't always win, but you keep fighting and maybe win next time. I guarantee you that if you just give up and quit, you'll never win...

Again, if we even *lost* the spreading of the message that was the "backup plan" if RP didn't win the nomination, because RP failed to do so by ending his campaign, how many people will ever hear the message again, once the election cycle is over?