5 Reasons to Abandon Politics

[familydog]

Politics is human nature, you can't escape it.

I must have missed the indigenous tribes who actively practice politics. I also missed the history lesson where politics plays an important role in hunter/gather societies.

"Human nature" is not static. "Human nature" is a learned behavior. Politics is the domination of the weak and crippled by psychopaths with parental abandonment issues.

 

[TheGrinch]

Yipee, more all or nothing folks pissing on those who have different ideas on how try to bring about change.

Our efforts, whether they be politics or activism are making an influence, are working and our numbers are growing, so I'm gonna be happy with that and not try to tell people what to do. To each his own path. It's all having a positive change as more and more wake up.

 

[Matt Collins]

State-oriented politics =/= politics generally.

Of course it does. Politics is politics regardless if it's your family, your church, your school, your club, your government, your job, etc. That's my point.

Electoral politics is not reality, Collins.

Maybe, but the people who get elected make the rules, and then have it enforced at the point of a gun.

 

[Matt Collins]

We need to wait for this system to collapse.

yeah that sounds like a plan.

Sorry, I'm going to put everything I can into making the world a better place. All that is needed for tyranny to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

Our so called friend Rand is not a libertarian, just remember that.

LOLz... how well do you know him? How many conversations have you had with him? How many times have you sat down to lunch with him? Know his family, wife and kids? Ever been in his house? I can say yes to all of the above, and I assure you ideologically, he's just like Ron.

 

[Matt Collins]

I must have missed the indigenous tribes who actively practice politics.

Politics is defined as the adjudication of power. Power is defined as getting other people to do what you want them to do.

Now are you telling me the chief of the tribe had no power?

Of course, in many cases the chief of the tribe had ultimate and full power over those in his tribe. How did he get that, how did he maintain that? Through the process of politics.

yes it existed back then, it existed always, it's part of humanity, we should learn how to use it to our advantage instead of letting the statists win.

"Human nature" is a learned behavior.

No, even a 2 year old understands "mine". Since recorded history humans have sought to dominate other humans, have sought to enrich themselves, have sought pleasure, etc. It IS human nature.

 

[Matt Collins]

the article is speaking of the political game of governing in America. This is a game that should be shunned and focus should be shifted on how to peacefully coexist without the use of force, aggression, or violence (which is the true power of the state and the end result of all your politicking). It's time to evolve in this regard.

I would agree, but those who study history know that isn't likely any time soon. Gold has always been considered money (or something of value) as far as recorded human history knows, and humans have always sought more of it. Politics is the same way, it's always been around, and it isn't changing any time soon.

I don't live in utopia, I live in the real world where decisions that affect peoples' lives are made by those who get elected.

 

[Matt Collins]

The real "farce" is wasting your time and resources trying to convince people to vote for a little more freedom here or there.

That's not how it's done... this is how it's done:

 

[familydog]

No, even a 2 year old understands "mine". Since recorded history humans have sought to dominate other humans, have sought to enrich themselves, have sought pleasure, etc. It IS human nature.

Yes, a two year old with parental abandonment issues. Suggesting that power and dominance are "human nature" is no different than suggesting that speaking English is "human nature."

 

[Matt Collins]

Suggesting that power and dominance are "human nature" is no different than suggesting that speaking English is "human nature."

Can you show me a society that has never had a dominant leader?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Can you show me a society that has never had a dominant leader?

Oversight of the ignorant does not equate to dominance, Matt. That's just playing the game is all that is. You know? Like "Well....this is how we did it (whatever "it" is at the time) before and nobody said anything so then by default there is no arguing against the further compounding of the skullduggery now".

Matt, change in the truest sense of the term will not come from politics in whole. Not this time around. You can continue to think or imply that and I know that you're trying to do good things (generally speaking) but political science is absolutely not the science of change. These are interesting times. Very delicate times.

 

[familydog]

Can you show me a society that has never had a dominant leader?

This is not an argument. I could come back and say, show me a dominant leader that wasn't abused as a child.

Slave owners argued that owning slaves is part of "human nature."
"Show me a society that didn't own slaves! Even the great democracy of ancient Greece had slaves," they said.
We teach our children that owning slaves is wrong. When we start teaching our children that dominance of any kind is wrong, politics will be an embarrassing past mistake.

 

[Matthew5]

Yipee, more all or nothing folks pissing on those who have different ideas on how try to bring about change.

Our efforts, whether they be politics or activism are making an influence, are working and our numbers are growing, so I'm gonna be happy with that and not try to tell people what to do. To each his own path. It's all having a positive change as more and more wake up.

But you have to look at it from the perspective of the all or nothing camps.

On the political/statist side, they believe that their cause needs to involve everyone. Participation is mandatory if they are going to bring about the change they politic for, as in voting. Also, some claim that government affects all, whether they accept that fact or not, so therefore all should be involved in changing the process.

On the agro/anarchist side, they believe that all political games and government can be boiled down into one thing, violence/force. And any participation in that system makes you a participant in that violence and makes you guilty of perpetuating that cycle of violence.

Of course that's terribly simplified, but you must view the driving philosophies of these movements to understand why they are so passionate about all or nothing.

 

[Matthew5]

I would agree, but those who study history know that isn't likely any time soon...

You know, they probably said the same thing before the discovery of fire. That's the problem with letting history inform too much of your reality.

I don't live in utopia, I live in the real world...

Since you're a politician, let me put it in your terms. One has a limited supply of energy and time, right? So I have to choose where to invest that energy. Given all the variables of politics and the current system, what are my odds of gaining total freedom? Because we don't want to expend all our energy for just a little freedom, our goal is total. The odds aren't great. If we use history as our teacher, since this is your chosen method, we can see that politics returns microscopic yields, especially over the past 150 years. Despite all your political efforts, you (being politicians and those that run the machine) have failed. And that's with an even larger percentage of those participating in your game! Government has grown, debt is astronomical, and freedoms disappear on an annual basis. Therefore, why would one invest their precious time and energy into such a low-yield system?

Tell me, which one of us is living in a utopia?

Why is it naive to invest your energy into a new invention? All government is man-made, therefore new forms can be invented. History has shown us that using basic elements of human nature, there's a myriad of forms that we can create. Why throw rocks at those that seek to invest their energy else where?

 

[klamath]

Tribalism is human nature. We ban together for survival, mutual aide, common goals, fellowship, and a myriad of other reasons. Politicking as a human interaction will never cease. As a means to control the lives of others through a mechanism known as government, that might be a different story...

And tribal council determines of you have to share that deer you shot with the tribe....

 

[ClydeCoulter]

...

No, even a 2 year old understands "mine". Since recorded history humans have sought to dominate other humans, have sought to enrich themselves, have sought pleasure, etc. It IS human nature.

Some 2 year olds understand "mine", some 5 year olds crush the heads of kittens for laughs, some 10 year olds insist that other kids candy be shared with them, some 20 year olds find ways to hijack what others have created, etc...it MAY BE the human nature of SOME, but these are not my friends and colleagues.

 

[Matthew5]

And tribal council determines of you have to share that deer you shot with the tribe....

Does governance exist among tribes? Yes. What I was referring to is that people will always interact together. And most will choose to interact in a social format. Politicking will be involved in that social process. Yet the original topic was as it pertained to American government and political systems. It's a sham that should be avoided and local interactions should be focused on.

 

[klamath]

Does governance exist among tribes? Yes. What I was referring to is that people will always interact together. And most will choose to interact in a social format. Politicking will be involved in that social process. Yet the original topic was as it pertained to American government and political systems. It's a sham that should be avoided and local interactions should be focused on.

Instead of trying to convince people not to be part of politics the way you are doing it post how you personally are free by not being part of the political process. You would win a lot more converts to the ideas. If you can live your life free DO IT and show others how it is done. Until then few people are going to believe dropping out is going to work.

 

[Matthew5]

Instead of trying to convince people not to be part of politics the way you are doing it post how you personally are free by not being part of the political process. You would win a lot more converts to the ideas. If you can live your life free DO IT and show others how it is done. Until then few people are going to believe dropping out is going to work.

Because this isn't a thread about methods; rather, we're discussing the reasons why someone would want to opt out. I'm more interested in talking about ideas right now as this is the Political Philosophy sub forum.

Besides, some methods are dangerous to one's physical freedom, if you catch my drift. It's unwise to post it on a public, searchable forum. Some things you only share with close friends and family. But since you're seeking, I'll share a few...some I've done, others my friends have done.

Stop voting
Don't endorse political candidates
Don't participate in any political or civil campaign
Refuse to participate in the hero cult of police and military
Turn your TV off
Homeschool your kids or send them to a private school
Leave or don't join nationalistic organizations (e.g. Boy Scouts)
Don't give to "charities" or funds that support civic organizations (encourage private enterprise instead)
Grow your own food
Barter more
Reduce your debt

Shall I go on? There's lots of little practical steps one can take and it will begin to have a cumulative effect.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Sure. Be political and all. The problem is when you put so much energy into politics, thinking that you're actually accomplishing something, that you don't put energy into things that might actually throw a wrench in the NWO machine.

Electing articulate, liberty loving people into positions of power is the biggest wrench in the machine IMO. Look what the progressives have accomplished incrementally over the past century. Many of their policies have become second nature and a part of the American psyche. That's why people reacted to Ron Paul and us like we're from another planet for purposing some of our free market, liberty-based ideas. Generations have been conditioned to think and behave a certain way. To wrestle away control we have to step up and step in at all levels (local, state, federal). The federal offices are important because they have the benefit of a powerful microphone with which to educate others to our philosophy. It will take some time to turn the ship around, but we're having extraordinary results after only four years. How many forums do you belong to where they successfully elected a fellow forum member to Congress?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Tribalism is human nature. We ban together for survival, mutual aide, common goals, fellowship, and a myriad of other reasons. Politicking as a human interaction will never cease. As a means to control the lives of others through a mechanism known as government, that might be a different story...

I think we're in pretty close agreement here. Humans are social/communal beings. Politicking is a subtle way of controlling others, sure, whereas several millennia ago they would simply beat you over the head with a rock if you disagreed on which waterhole to use.