30,000 soldiers Afghan surge will be rerouted to Haiti?

Ok.

Cost of Aghan freedom war per surge soldier will be $1 million a year, cost of digging up trapped Haitian quake victims probably would be $10K per month. But I see your fiscally conservative point.

As our economy continues to tank, folk's charity will continue to become more local. I've got a farmer neighbor who took a big hit with his crop that we're currently looking out for (vog). I've also got more than a few relatives out of work on the mainland. :(

There's a ton of good (more) we could all be doing if we could keep our hands on our dough.



Bunkloco
 
A terrible situation all around, lots of suffering. In a better world we would not be discussing using our military for such problems. Don't we remember FEMA and Katrina? Isn't this why Dr. Paul voted through clenched teeth against the federal aid to his own hurricane effected district? Even if sent, military who are currently training to kill terrorists, are not going to be as useful as investing that money and energy into true humanitarian organizations who face natural disasters on the daily.

Charity, private, and non-profit aid is what is needed for Haiti. Not government strongarming. Red Cross = Yes! Uncle Sam = not the best of ideas.
 
I'm not opposed to our military helping in the process of "Delivering" aide to this country.

The degree of pain which is being endured at this time in Haiti can not be underestimated as the situation is far worse than I even began to imagine last night.
They need Heavy Equipment now. I really don't know of any other organization in proximity to this island nation who could respond faster with the kind of equipment that is needed at this time than the U.S. Military.
Yes, I could equate rerouting a "kill mission" to a "save mission" charity at this time.
If it was my decision to make, they would be on their way now.
 
Jesus.

What a shithole. Even before the earthquake. This is why the liberals still have backing. Because of places and little girls who look like this. It's pitiful to see that little one living that kind of life.

But then I think, who the hell am I to think I can make her life better by giving her more stuff? Decent stuff?

What a conundrum.

Do you want a free market - pro liberty alternative?

http://www.villagebanking.org

http://www.kiva.org

Seriously, Kiva.org allows people to form lending clubs. The liberty community should look into this. Help people by helping them help themselves through capitalism. And do it without monstrosities like the World Bank and IMF.
 
I'm not opposed to our military helping in the process of "Delivering" aide to this country.

The degree of pain which is being endured at this time in Haiti can not be underestimated as the situation is far worse than I even began to imagine last night.
They need Heavy Equipment now. I really don't know of any other organization in proximity to this island nation who could respond faster with the kind of equipment that is needed at this time than the U.S. Military.
Yes, I could equate rerouting a "kill mission" to a "save mission" charity at this time.
If it was my decision to make, they would be on their way now.

You have a right to donate your money to the cause. You do not have a right to donate OTHER people's money to the cause. It's not yours to give.
 
I agree with that.

But question is does rerouting a mission from "kill" to "save" rise to level of charity or not.

In a vacuum, sure. But this just reinforces our record of using the military to solve the world's problems. Where does it end?
 
You have a right to donate your money to the cause. You do not have a right to donate OTHER people's money to the cause. It's not yours to give.

Money's already spent. This might even save some money if part of the Afgan troop deployment gets delayed.
 
Dieseler, where did that come from?
Let's not make arguments here personal.


In a vacuum, sure. But this just reinforces our record of using the military to solve the world's problems. Where does it end?

It should end well before invading/occupying other countries for greed, revenge or propping up friendly dictators etc.

I agree with the principle you're advocating, but if we have to choose between Afghanistan vs Haiti ...
 
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Fuck you, you little prick.

http://mises.org/story/1129
http://mises.org/daily/3627

[Of President Grover Cleveland's 584 vetoes, that of the "Texas Seed Bill" (February 16, 1887) may be the most famous. Members of Congress wanted to help suffering farmers in the American West, but Cleveland rejected their bill, citing the limited mission of the general government and arguing that private charity and already-existing government programs should furnish the necessary aid.]
Stephen Grover Cleveland (1837–1908)To the House of Representatives:

I return without my approval House bill number 10203, entitled "An Act to enable the Commissioner of Agriculture to make a special distribution of seeds in drought-stricken counties of Texas, and making an appropriation therefor."

It is represented that a long-continued and extensive drought has existed in certain portions of the State of Texas, resulting in a failure of crops and consequent distress and destitution.

Though there has been some difference in statements concerning the extent of the people's needs in the localities thus affected, there seems to be no doubt that there has existed a condition calling for relief; and I am willing to believe that, notwithstanding the aid already furnished, a donation of seed grain to the farmers located in this region, to enable them to put in new crops, would serve to avert a continuance or return of an unfortunate blight.

And yet I feel obliged to withhold my approval of the plan as proposed by this bill, to indulge a benevolent and charitable sentiment through the appropriation of public funds for that purpose.

I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people.

The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.

It is within my personal knowledge that individual aid has, to some extent, already been extended to the sufferers mentioned in this bill. The failure of the proposed appropriation of $10,000 additional, to meet their remaining wants, will not necessarily result in continued distress if the emergency is fully made known to the people of the country.

It is here suggested that the Commissioner of Agriculture is annually directed to expend a large sum of money for the purchase, propagation, and distribution of seeds and other things of this description, two-thirds of which are, upon the request of senators, representatives, and delegates in Congress, supplied to them for distribution among their constituents.


The appropriation of the current year for this purpose is $100,000, and it will probably be no less in the appropriation for the ensuing year. I understand that a large quantity of grain is furnished for such distribution, and it is supposed that this free apportionment among their neighbors is a privilege which may be waived by our senators and representatives.

If sufficient of them should request the Commissioner of Agriculture to send their shares of the grain thus allowed them, to the suffering farmers of Texas, they might be enabled to sow their crops; the constituents, for whom in theory this grain is intended, could well bear the temporary deprivation, and the donors would experience the satisfaction attending deeds of charity.


No one has the right to steal from another for any reason. You would do well to heed these sage words.
 
Haiti

The United States isn't the ONLY Superpower in the world. Why are we always stuck doing the grunt work? Where is Russia and China when a 3rd world country suffers a disaster? We help out any country in need, while the rest of the Superpowers do nothing but conspire against our Dollar to develop a new world currency.
 
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I would rather keep the military at home, period, however it would be better to send them somewhere to save lives rather than take lives. My only question is what type of training do our military personnel have for this type of situation? I certainly don't want to occupy Haiti.
 
I'm not opposed to our military helping in the process of "Delivering" aide to this country.

The degree of pain which is being endured at this time in Haiti can not be underestimated as the situation is far worse than I even began to imagine last night.
They need Heavy Equipment now. I really don't know of any other organization in proximity to this island nation who could respond faster with the kind of equipment that is needed at this time than the U.S. Military.
Yes, I could equate rerouting a "kill mission" to a "save mission" charity at this time.
If it was my decision to make, they would be on their way now.
I agree.

Money's already spent. This might even save some money if part of the Afgan troop deployment gets delayed.
This, too.

I would rather keep the military at home, period, however it would be better to send them somewhere to save lives rather than take lives. My only question is what type of training do our military personnel have for this type of situation? I certainly don't want to occupy Haiti.
I just read we're sending Marines. I think the National Guard is much more suited to this type of situation and I would (again) much rather see our Guard men and women rerouted from Afghanistan to Haiti.
 
NO way.
Do you all forget Somalia? (humanitarian aid)??
Do you remember Jean-Bertrand Aristide? (puppet government)?

The best thing to do with Haiti is stay far away from it.

This is true, the Humanitarian effort will turn into nation building...then into a psuedo occupation.
 
We absolutely shouldn't be sending our military or "foreign aid"! I can't believe anyone here would agree to this!

There is no constitutional authorization for it. Our troops and our taxes are meant to protect for US citizens, not the rest of the world! You could chase endlessly after trying to "fix" everything - as we already are, sort of. Government programs are useless enough, but when you funnel our resources through other governments, they just turn into tools of control, domination, and advancing causes we would never agree to.

Voluntary charity is the best way to help. Leave the money with the people, and let them make the choices of what is the best way to help.
 
Where is China?

Where are the multinationals who suck the life out of these people daily to increase profits?

Where are the NAFTA and CAFTA profiteers?

Where is Chavez?

Where's David Rockefeller?

Where's Goldman Suckhole?

Where's the military industrial complex?

The US Military is trained to occupy and kill. Nothing else. They're just being sent there to guard the big boys' banks and factories, trust me.

Bosso
 
The applicable private companies are also helping out already. Bandages, general medical supplies, baby items, etc. are on the way. One can argue about the fact this is being done as a huge tax writeoff, but right now it doesn't matter much. I am sure that various other companies are sending aid as well.

We are all deeply saddened by the impact of the devastating earthquake that struck Haiti on Tuesday, destroying much of the country’s capital city of Port-au-Prince.

As part of Our Credo commitment to helping those in need around the world, we are working with our international disaster relief partners to assess what they need from Johnson & Johnson to assist with their emergency relief efforts. As a starting point, we shipped immediately four Johnson & Johnson disaster relief modules with large quantities of our consumer and over-the-counter products. We also are coordinating cash donations to organizations known to us and our regional colleagues to assist with initial aid. Our partners at Medical Teams International (MTI), the Surgical Implant Generation Network (SIGN), and Esperanza International are on their way to Haiti to evaluate the situation on the ground as well as to offer emergency medical treatment.

Our Family of Companies in Latin America and the Caribbean is in contact with Haitian and Dominican nongovernmental organizations such as Hospital Albert Schweitzer, Esperanza International and Partners In Health to assess on-the-ground needs. Our companies will be preparing additional product donations based on needs identified by these and other partners. Additionally, we are evaluating maritime capacity for shipping products from Puerto Rico to Haiti, and activating contacts with our distributors in Haiti and the Dominican Republic to understand logistics of moving donated products from the ports and airports into the affected areas.
 
History repetes

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/wwi/88275.htm
U.S. Invasion and Occupation of Haiti, 1915-34

Under interventionist policies of the early 20th century, President Woodrow Wilson sent the United States Marines into Haiti to restore order and maintain political and economic stability in the Caribbean after the assassination of the Haitian President in July of 1915. This occupation continued until 1934.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112838,00.html
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — President Jean-Bertrand Aristide (search) resigned and flew into exile Sunday, pressured by a bloody rebellion and the United States. Gunfire crackled as the capital fell into chaos, and U.S. Marines arrived in the country.

The contingent totaled fewer than 100 Marines and more were to arrive Monday. They were the vanguard of a multinational force that the U.N. Security Council (search) approved late Sunday night, and France said it would send troops on Monday.

"The government believes it is essential that Haiti (search) have a hopeful future. This is the beginning of a new chapter," President Bush said at the White House. "I would urge the people of Haiti to reject violence, to give this break from the past a chance to work. And the United States is prepared to help."

Haiti has been a shit hole for as long as anyone can remember.
look at the history. :(
 
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/wwi/88275.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,112838,00.html


Haiti has been a shit hole for as long as anyone can remember.
look at the history. :(

If the plan is to transform Haiti into an Island Paradise then forget it. But if the plan is to rescue some people in a really bad fix who are right on our doorstep that's a different matter. We went halfway around the world to help tsunami victims after all. And you're earlier reference to Somalia doesn't actually fit. Starvation in Somalia was due primarily to a security issue. In this case the short term problem is due to the earthquake. Yes there will be still be long term problems a year from now, but that doesn't mean we can't do something in the short term.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Com...&asset=&ccode=

I predicted as much yesterday. The military is in, will help, then slave labor will be used by these companies rushing in now and Corporate America will have a power grab on Haiti.

:rolleyes: Sending relief supplies is not automagically a "power grab". The same thing happened after Katrina. Corporations donated a lot of stuff partly out of humanitarian reasons and partly to generate "goodwill". The end result was not new factories in New Orleans taking advantage of "slave labor".
 
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