30,000 soldiers Afghan surge will be rerouted to Haiti?

[MelissaWV]

NO way.
Do you all forget Somalia? (humanitarian aid)??
Do you remember Jean-Bertrand Aristide? (puppet government)?

The best thing to do with Haiti is stay far away from it.

As a Government, I strongly agree. There are numerous international organizations set up specifically to help out in situations like this. As I posted in another thread, the Government can "help" by giving a certain portion of its employees leave to go volunteer through one of those organizations. There are always problems after a crisis, with people who want to go help but can't because they wouldn't have a job to come back to. I'm sure there are certain ex-military, ex-firemen, ex-policemen, etc., who would love to go and would have valuable skills to offer. Businesses could be strongly encouraged (no force, though, for love of God) to allow certain people leave to go help. Businesses can also, obviously, make donations or match their employees' donations to the effort.

I disagree with the notion of pouring troops into the area. It's a terrible idea.

The big "crisis" that will loom after the dust clears from this, by the way, is one of immigration. The Dominican Republic has already stopped deporting Haitians back because they have decided it's basically a death sentence. They are also setting up hospitals to receive and treat earthquake victims. That's to be applauded for now, but what will happen eventually is that the Dominican Republic will be (more) overrun (than usual) with refugees. Those, in turn, make their way casually to Florida or Puerto Rico, where they become US citizens. You can be sure that people living near the Haiti/D.R. border have heard about the fact they will not be deported. Things were desperate already, and this is a chance for many to sneak over and try to better their lives and the lives of their children. Unintended consequences strike again.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

When military went on rescue mission when Katrina hit, they probably did not bring guns. Any humanitarian mission would be same way.

Tell that to the men and women of New Orleans and surrounding areas where they got their weapons confiscated at gun point.

If people want to help and donate to this worthy cause, then do it voluntarily. We are neither the worlds policeman or the worlds humanitarians. We are broke. We need to look inward and fix our own problems.

If the question posed is, would you rather 30,000 troops go to Haiti or Afghanistan, I think it's crystal clear: Haiti. It's a loaded question though, I would rather not have any troops overseas whatsoever. I think people here know my take on the military though. No standing army, no MIC, no temptation to use for political whims and dreams of empire.

 

[Liberty Star]

If the question posed is, would you rather 30,000 troops go to Haiti or Afghanistan, I think it's crystal clear: Haiti.

To keep discussion narrow, that was the only question here though. It was about "rerouting", not simply sending. You're right, it is bit of loaded question.
I already knew what the answer is on the ideal scenario.

 

[BenIsForRon]

Tell that to the men and women of New Orleans and surrounding areas where they got their weapons confiscated at gun point.

If people want to help and donate to this worthy cause, then do it voluntarily. We are neither the worlds policeman or the worlds humanitarians. We are broke. We need to look inward and fix our own problems.

If the question posed is, would you rather 30,000 troops go to Haiti or Afghanistan, I think it's crystal clear: Haiti. It's a loaded question though, I would rather not have any troops overseas whatsoever. I think people here know my take on the military though. No standing army, no MIC, no temptation to use for political whims and dreams of empire.

Can you think of anyone better equipped than the US military to deal with this right now? I think there is not, and that fact alone means the US military should help out in some capacity.

We're not living in your utopian world. The US army can save lives here, and if they are smart, avoid entangling alliances at the same time. Therefore, I see no real reason to stay completely hands off here.

 

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

This may sound harsh, but I really don't care what happens to Haiti one way or another. What happened to America First? We will always have an interventionist foreign policy if we can't get over the idea that we should be the first to rush to aid when something horrible happens, consequences be damned. And why is there a tremendous flurry to help foreigners instead of our own people who are losing their jobs and houses?

Let the rest of the world deal with it for once. Wishful thinking under this administration, but it is the policy that would be best. And individuals who are really that upset about the earthquake are always free to donate to private charities, or go down there themselves and help them. We do not need to blow huge amounts of money and send our military screaming in to help while our own country is sinking into poverty.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Can you think of anyone better equipped than the US military to deal with this right now? I think there is not, and that fact alone means the US military should help out in some capacity.

We're not living in your utopian world. The US army can save lives here, and if they are smart, avoid entangling alliances at the same time. Therefore, I see no real reason to stay completely hands off here.

I can think of many organizations better equipped to handle this situation. Red Cross, Earthquake/Rubble dog teams (Usually found in Fire Departments and PD's), Volunteer Firefighters, large private companies (Water, Food, etc.), etc.

The Military writ large aren't trained to do these kinds of missions. That's why whenever we are sent in to do Humanitarian missions things always go awry.

The only utopian people here are those who believe we can have standing armies and not reap the repercussions that always follows (Why do you think our founders put into the Constitution no standing armies?). Besides, we are BROKE. What part of BROKE do you not understand?

 

[BenIsForRon]

I can think of many organizations better equipped to handle this situation. Red Cross, Earthquake/Rubble dog teams (Usually found in Fire Departments and PD's), Volunteer Firefighters, large private companies (Water, Food, etc.), etc.

The Military writ large aren't trained to do these kinds of missions. That's why whenever we are sent in to do Humanitarian missions things always go awry.

The only utopian people here are those who believe we can have standing armies and not reap the repercussions that always follows (Why do you think our founders put into the Constitution no standing armies?). Besides, we are BROKE. What part of BROKE do you not understand?

I know we're broke, but sending 30,000 troops that already have their bags packed to Haiti isn't going to change anything, we'll still be really fucking broke. That's why we should help in whichever way will actually be helpful, like flying helicopters, driving trucks, medical supplies, and so on. I really don't think we're going to get bogged down there, much in the same way you didn't have anybody getting bogged down militarily after the big tsunami a few years back.

 

[Liberty Star]

Notorious Iraqi freedom supporter P Robertson on this issue:

YouTube - Pat Robertson Calls Quake 'blessing in Disguise'

 

[Met Income]

I know we're broke, but sending 30,000 troops that already have their bags packed to Haiti isn't going to change anything, we'll still be really fucking broke. That's why we should help in whichever way will actually be helpful, like flying helicopters, driving trucks, medical supplies, and so on. I really don't think we're going to get bogged down there, much in the same way you didn't have anybody getting bogged down militarily after the big tsunami a few years back.

"I know we're broke but..."

Apparently, you don't.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Poorest country in the western hemisphere- and now they have even less.

 

[sofia]

they wanted to be independent from France and they killed all the white Frenchies.....

so they made their own bed.

Red Cross...donations...yes


government/miltary intervention?...not on my dime....which is about all i'll have left soon when Obama's inevitable hyperflation arrives

 

[prophet]

This may sound harsh, but I really don't care what happens to Haiti one way or another. What happened to America First? We will always have an interventionist foreign policy if we can't get over the idea that we should be the first to rush to aid when something horrible happens, consequences be damned. And why is there a tremendous flurry to help foreigners instead of our own people who are losing their jobs and houses?

Let the rest of the world deal with it for once. Wishful thinking under this administration, but it is the policy that would be best. And individuals who are really that upset about the earthquake are always free to donate to private charities, or go down there themselves and help them. We do not need to blow huge amounts of money and send our military screaming in to help while our own country is sinking into poverty.

Amen! it is a real wonderment to see that many so-called libertarians on this forum are actually Marxist egalitarians. Amazing!

 

[Nathan Hale]

We had a role in the Indonesia tsunami aid that went well.

http://www.defense.gov/home/features/tsunami/index.html

Yeah, we're broke and all, but a few ships going to a different place is small potatoes in the grand scheme of 700 bases in 130 countries and two undeclared wars. Let's fight THAT. At least these harmless humanitarian missions buy us a little, much needed, respect overseas.

 

[Dunedain]

What a craphole. That was 2008? What does it look like now I wonder.

 

[bunklocoempire]

Even if 100K or more people have been killed in tragic Haiti quake, this will be very significant move if what heard through grapevine is true. Currently US Coast guard from Miami and other military is helping with rescue in Haiti, some are asking Obama to appoint a military general to oversee Haiti mission and reroute planned 30K military Afghan surge to Haiti immediately.

Not confirmed yet but if Obama mobilized 30K troops planned for Afghanistan to head to Haiti instead, would you support it?

No.

How's 'bout I get to keep my wages tax free from January 'till August 12th or so. (The approximate 'cost of government')

With 7 1/2 extra months of wages I'd be more than happy to pitch in -myself- not through government.

Government to government 'giving'? NO. People to people giving? Yes.

Bunkloco

 

[Dieseler]

Charity is needed badly.

LiveLeak.com - Haiti Earthquake Caught on Tape

 

[Met Income]

Charity is needed badly.

LiveLeak.com - Haiti Earthquake Caught on Tape

Government isn't, though.

 

[Liberty Star]

No.

How's 'bout I get to keep my wages tax free from January 'till August 12th or so. (The approximate 'cost of government')

With 7 1/2 extra months of wages I'd be more than happy to pitch in -myself- not through government.

Government to government 'giving'? NO. People to people giving? Yes.

Bunkloco

Ok.

Cost of Aghan freedom war per surge soldier will be $1 million a year, cost of digging up trapped Haitian quake victims probably would be $10K per month. But I see your fiscally conservative point.

 

[Met Income]

Ok.

Cost of Aghan freedom war per surge soldier will be $1 million a year, cost of digging up trapped Haitian quake victims probably would be $10K per month. But I see your fiscally conservative point.

So it wouldn't take as many private donors to get the job done. Charity is good. Forced charity though legalized theft... not so good.

 

[Liberty Star]

So it wouldn't take as many private donors to get the job done. Charity is good. Forced charity though legalized theft... not so good.

I agree with that.

But question is does rerouting a mission from "kill" to "save" rise to level of charity or not.