3-year-old Russian boy killed by American adoptive mother in Texas

[angelatc]

there are plenty of kids that need adopting in the USA.. wtf are people adopting from russia and china for?... no offense for anyone here who adopted russian/chinese children.

That's actually not true. Most of the kids that are adoptable are special needs, or older. The welfare system has dramatically reduced the number of adoptable infants, as well as the disappearing stigma of being a single mother. Add to that the increasing willingness of people to adopt the children of their extended family and of course, abortion on demand ....there is a shortage of adoptable kids in this country.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/NEWS...-plummet-as-Russia-closes-its--doors_ST_U.htm

 

[angelatc]

Why is this woman giving antipsychotics to a 3 year old? Of course they seem mentally unstable... they are 3 years old.

I'm certainly not going to defend a woman who killed a 3 year old. But a lot of the children from the old Soviet bloc countries come from massive group homes, where the babies get almost no human contact until they're adopted. It really can cause severe psychological damage. Of course the adoptive parents aren't told about this, and can be entirely unprepared to deal with it.

 

[RockEnds]

That's actually not true. Most of the kids that are adoptable are special needs, or older. The welfare system has dramatically reduced the number of adoptable infants, as well as the disappearing stigma of being a single mother. Add to that the increasing willingness of people to adopt the children of their extended family and of course, abortion on demand ....there is a shortage of adoptable kids in this country.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/NEWS...-plummet-as-Russia-closes-its--doors_ST_U.htm

And birth control. When the post-war Era of Mass Surrender came to a close circa 1972, birth control played a big part. But even back then, social pressure was put upon single, white, middle class women to surrender infants. Minority women were expected to keep their babies, and since they were not in high demand, they did.

 

[presence]

First, according to your link, Intercountry Adoptions $15,000 - $30,000, not 40k. Second, are you saying this is bad? If so, why? There's a lot of cost involved in this sort of thing.

Costs of adopting may be minimal or can
total more than $40,000, depending on a
number of factors.

These numbers also do not include the costs of failed adoptions. My neighbor had $30k in multiple failed adoption costs before spending another $30k actually adopting. All (I'll bend... most) of the "costs involved in this sort of thing" are "regulated" costs. The state should enforce contracts between parties, not impose costly terms. Imagine if we had to pay the state $5000 before we got a new pet. How do we know you won't abuse the pet? Surely we should regulate costly programs to prove competence.

As I mentioned before, only non-profits can afford to eat that kind of loss. (and I don't think .org's normally have the cash and capital necessary anyway...though I could be mistaken)

Truthfully, in most cases, adoptive families; that are taking on the burden of unwanted children, eat that loss... and most of it has to be CASH. So are only wealthy families capable of caring for children? I certainly couldn't just drop $10, $20, $30, or $50k to buy a kid; but I'm doing a damn fine job of raising my own.

Third, I withdraw my comment about Ingraham. I hold a grudge against her for several things I won't get into here, and shouldn't have said that. I let my emotions get in the way, sorry.

I thought you were out on a limb there with "fascist".

----------------------------

Let me just throw something out there on the subject of government involvement in adoption costs. Amongst that $30k I mentioned in "failed adoption costs"...one of the kids they tried to adopt... they signed all the papers, paid for the home studies, paid for this, paid for that, PAID FOR THE CHILD TO BE DELIVERED AT A HOSPITAL, paid an additional $2k in birth expenses to the mother.

Then the mother backed out during delivery, with $2k in cash in her pocket for "birth expenses" kept her kid and bought a used car. The state says that's her right.

Seems fair /sarcasm

 

[RockEnds]

(snip)
----------------------------

Let me just throw something out there on the subject of government involvement in adoption costs. Amongst that $30k I mentioned in "failed adoption costs"...one of the kids they tried to adopt... they signed all the papers, paid for the home studies, paid for this, paid for that, PAID FOR THE CHILD TO BE DELIVERED AT A HOSPITAL, paid an additional $2k in birth expenses to the mother.

Then the mother backed out during delivery, with $2k in cash in her pocket for "birth expenses" kept her kid and bought a used car. The state says that's her right.

Seems fair /sarcasm

I know this will be hard to believe, but the prospective adoptive parents who came before them and their agencies and lawyers, of course, lobbied to make this possible.

You can't buy children. So, how can you get that $$$ carrot to the expectant mother? Well, approve certain expenses to be paid by the prospective adoptive parents, BUT with no strings attached. Their gamble. Their loss.

It's insane, I know. But it's what they wanted. I watched it play out myself as a legislative intern in the 90s.

 

[presence]

Their gamble. Their loss.

Crazy is what I say.

Not only do we have prohibitive "adoption costs" with the currently regulatory scheme, we have people in fact GAMBLING for children.

 

[RockEnds]

Crazy is what I say.

Not only do we have prohibitive "adoption costs" with the currently regulatory scheme, we have people in fact GAMBLING for children.

Uh huh.


There have been so many changes to adoption throughout the years. This interview on youtube is a really good place to begin understanding how those changes progressed through the years. The focus, however, is less on today's style of adoption and more on the thoughts of those who initially affected the change.



It's a 5-part interview. I think it should play through them all. Maybe

 

[RockEnds]

There appears to have been another child placed, and Russia wants him back:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...3b3862-7aa0-11e2-9a75-dab0201670da_story.html

Pavel Astakhov, Russia’s children’s ombudsman and fervent opponent of foreign adoptions, told reporters Monday evening that Maxim had been beaten and given heavy psychiatric drugs. Konstantin Dolgov, the Foreign Ministry’s human rights officer, said he had died Jan. 21 “after being cruelly treated.”

By Tuesday morning, Russia’s top investigatory agency was demanding a role in the inquiry, the governor of Pskov was insisting that the U.S. family return Max’s 2-year-old brother to Russia and a legislator was calling for a stop to the last few American adoptions underway.

more at the link.

 

[BlackTerrel]

If you don't trust everything the US government says you shouldn't trust everything the Russian government says either.

Don't know the true facts of this case but pretty confident 99.99% of American adoptive parents don't beat their kids to death (whether they adopt Americans or Russians or Chinese). Don't think this case is a reason for or against Americans adopting Russians.

Also why are the Russian authorities pursuing this case so aggressively? Do Americans usually not prosecute parents who beat and kill their children? I'd argue they do.

 

[RockEnds]

If you don't trust everything the US government says you shouldn't trust everything the Russian government says either.

Don't know the true facts of this case but pretty confident 99.99% of American adoptive parents don't beat their kids to death (whether they adopt Americans or Russians or Chinese). Don't think this case is a reason for or against Americans adopting Russians.

Also why are the Russian authorities pursuing this case so aggressively? Do Americans usually not prosecute parents who beat and kill their children? I'd argue they do.

Russians haven't tried to hide the fact that they're not impressed and haven't been for several years. I think the little boy returned on the plane was a firm smack in the face as far as they were concerned, but it was neither the first nor the last problem. The bottom line is that Americans aren't entitled to Russian kids, and if the Russians do not wish to send them here, they are not in any way obligated.

Asking for the return of this child is new. That may get interesting if they pursue it.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Russians haven't tried to hide the fact that they're not impressed and haven't been for several years. I think the little boy returned on the plane was a firm smack in the face as far as they were concerned, but it was neither the first nor the last problem. The bottom line is that Americans aren't entitled to Russian kids, and if the Russians do not wish to send them here, they are not in any way obligated.

Russians can do whatever they want. I'm not looking to adopt a Russian baby so I'm pretty impartial on this one.

I'm saying its not exactly a trend of American adoptive parents beating to death Russian children. Unless you're reactionary this article shouldn't sway opinion one way or the other.

I also don't know why I should take the Russian government at face value? How do you know this mother actually killed the child? Does Russian government never lie?

 

[RockEnds]

Russians can do whatever they want. I'm not looking to adopt a Russian baby so I'm pretty impartial on this one.

I'm saying its not exactly a trend of American adoptive parents beating to death Russian children. Unless you're reactionary this article shouldn't sway opinion one way or the other.

I also don't know why I should take the Russian government at face value? How do you know this mother actually killed the child? Does Russian government never lie?

I'm not reactionary. I'm just an adoptee who tries to stay informed on adoption issues. Somewhere here, there's another thread with specific Russian cases cited, but I'll post the most obvious single link, Pound Puppy Legacy. They're pretty good about keeping up on these things.

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/46524

 

[BlackTerrel]

I'm not reactionary. I'm just an adoptee who tries to stay informed on adoption issues. Somewhere here, there's another thread with specific Russian cases cited, but I'll post the most obvious single link, Pound Puppy Legacy. They're pretty good about keeping up on these things.

http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/46524

How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...

 

[RockEnds]

How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...

Off the top of my head, 60,000. I'm sure google has a better recall than I do. The abuse cases are listed at the link if you are interested in them. The bottom line is that Russia does not owe us children. They don't have to give a reason to end US adoptions. They can do it just on accounta because. Attempting to minimize the death of a child could be a factor in their reasoning. I don't know. I'm not Russian. But it seems to me that if the Russians were attempting to reduce the life of an American child to a statistic, that may offend a few folks in this country.

 

[KingNothing]

there are plenty of kids that need adopting in the USA.. wtf are people adopting from russia and china for?... no offense for anyone here who adopted russian/chinese children.

What's the difference? If sane, loving, people want to adopt a child, they deserve all the blessings the universe can bestow.

 

[KingNothing]

What a sad story. Why do we do this stuff?

 

[presence]

How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...

The number 19 dead seems to come to mind. I don't have a cite for you.

 

[KingNothing]

How many Russians have been adopted in the US and how many have been beaten to death by their mother? Guessing it's a pretty small number...

One would have to be foolish and heartless to limit the pool of willing parents. The Russians are being evil. They're making the lives of children demonstrably worse by acting to cut off American adoption.

 

[presence]

here's that cite

http://en.rian.ru/world/20111202/169243111.html

 

[KingNothing]

Compared to America, Russia is a hell hole. A brave and compassionate leader of Russia would not prohibit adoption, particularly if the Russian child was going to a wealthy family in one of the wealthiest countries in human history. The child has a far better chance of leading a happy, prosperous life in our country. ...but then, the Russians don't really care about the kids. They care about scoring political points.


...yuuuuck. I hate these stories. I hate knowing that they exist and that all of this happens. What a shame.