10th DWI=Life

nobody's_hero said:
Could you elaborate on how you see it as a 'strawman' argument? You might feel it is a dead horse but to others, it is a good point. Making a threatening gesture with a lethal weapon against innocents
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It is not a good point at all. Not even in the same realm,, however there is a law against Brandishing a weapon,, in most places.

I am not defending the stupidity of driving drunk,, or of driving with no sleep or on bald tires,,

I am only speaking to to stupidity misuse and abuse of DUI Laws.

I have been a victim of them twice. I have never wrecked a car ever.
It is an over-abused issue,

as to the right to travel,, it should be without question,, the same as firearm ownership.

but fuck that,, I'm a prohibited person.
 
pcosmar said:
It is not a good point at all. Not even in the same realm,, however there is a law against Brandishing a weapon,, in most places.

I am not defending the stupidity of driving drunk,, or of driving with no sleep or on bald tires,,

I am only speaking to to stupidity misuse and abuse of DUI Laws.

I have been a victim of them twice. I have never wrecked a car ever.
It is an over-abused issue,

as to the right to travel,, it should be without question,, the same as firearm ownership.

but fuck that,, I'm a prohibited person.
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Some of life's lessons are just more expensive than others, and unfair. :(

The problem is not driving drunk. The problem is getting caught driving drunk ....... twice. For some it builds character.
 
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jonhowe said:
Drunkenness is not a distraction, it's intoxication. Not sure where you got this idea in your head that being drunk is a distraction. Drunk drivers are actually some of the most focused; they often drift over the yellow line precisely because they're concentrating so hard on it while driving.

I can walk a straight line when distracted. I can carry on a conversation, chew gum, listen to music, etc, and walk a straight line. Hell, I can even juggle and walk a straight line.

Maybe it's just me, but when I'm hammered I can't walk a straight line, and I certainly can't drive with any measure of safety.

A distraction can be ignored, switched off, etc. Intoxication cannot.


Your analogy is flawed.


EDIT: I learned to juggle in public school.
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I take it you're not a parent....

Sorry bud but it's your analogy that's flawed, if one takes the legal definition of "drunk" and compares it to the sleepless parent it's going to be the parent who's unable to concentrate well enough to pilot an automobile..

We could discuss what-ifs ad nauseum..........To what end though?

I don't want government to have the authority to check the physical or mental state of anybody for any reason.

It's apparent you do.
 
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tod evans said:
I take it you're not a parent....

Sorry bud but it's your analogy that's flawed, if one takes the legal definition of "drunk" and compares it to the sleepless parent it's going to be the parent who's unable to concentrate well enough to pilot an automobile..

We could discuss what-ifs ad nauseum..........To what end though?

I don't want government to have the authority to check the physical or mental state of anybody for any reason.

It's apparent you do.
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Guess I'm a statist then. Time to vote for Rubio :rolleyes:


I'd like to see your source on impairment of sleep vs being wasted.




Again, I don't think DUI laws are good as they are; throwing people in jail doesn't solve the problem. And an arbitrary measurement of BAC does not indicate level of impairment. Only observed reckless driving followed by a failed sobriety check (or, impairment check) should result in any kind of legal action.
 
Ronin Truth said:
Some of life's lessons are just more expensive than others, and unfair. :(

The problem is not driving drunk. The problem is getting caught driving drunk ....... twice. For some it builds character.
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actually,, i was not driving drunk on either of those occasions.

Once I was not driving,,the second I was no where near drunk (but I had a beer)
 
jonhowe said:
I'd like to see your source on impairment of sleep vs being wasted.

.
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We have already eviscerated the MADD claimed statistics in other threads.

but this is just one source.
http://drowsydriving.org/about/facts-and-stats/
According to the National Sleep Foundation’s 2005 Sleep in America poll, 60% of adult drivers – about 168 million people – say they have driven a vehicle while feeling drowsy in the past year, and more than one-third, (37% or 103 million people), have actually fallen asleep at the wheel! In fact, of those who have nodded off, 13% say they have done so at least once a month. Four percent – approximately eleven million drivers – admit they have had an accident or near accident because they dozed off or were too tired to drive.
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Here is the government's,
http://www.cdc.gov/features/dsdrowsydriving/

and from media,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/drowsy-driving-dangerous-drunk-sleepy_n_1557200.html

and yet another (there are many)
http://school.sleepeducation.com/drowsydrivingstats.aspx

The AAA Foundation also estimates that drowsy driving is involved in:

6% of all crashes in which a vehicle was towed from the scene
7% of crashes in which a person received treatment for injuries sustained in the crash
13% of crashes in which a person was hospitalized

Based on these estimates, the AAA Foundation projects that drowsy driving plays a role in an average of 328,000 crashes annually. This total includes 109,000 crashes that result in injuries and 6,400 fatal crashes.

The actual impact of drowsy driving may be even higher than the statistics show. It is difficult to know how drowsy someone was prior to an accident. Unlike drunk driving, there is no “breathalyzer” test for drowsiness. So unless a driver admits falling asleep, drowsy driving often goes unreported.
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Oddly,, the AAA drowsy driving is quite close to the corrected drunk driving statistics.

which still leave 80% of fatal accidents caused by something else.


Just to get things perfectly clear.
You ARE going to die. You,,me,, everyone. period

The chance of dying in a car is statistically slim to start with.. (lots of other places)
The chance of a drunk driver killing you is even slimmer at about 6% or round it to 10 if you like. but that's it.

slim chance at a slim chance.

be careful taking your bath.
 
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specsaregood said:
and at the same time, as usual the liberty folk pretend to be obtuse when its actually a difficult situation with no right answer. they argue that we should wait until he kills someone before doing anything about him driving impaired and that just doesn't jive with reality. I dont' think life in prison is the answer, but doing nothing cuz he hasn't killed anybody yet isn't the right answer either.
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There won't be anything but half-assed and unsatisfactory solutions to this sort of problem as long as roads remain "public" and every Tom, Dick and Harry (and specs and Banana and phill and spud and etc.) have different ideas about what should or should not be tolerated on "muh roads" ...
 
Chase all the rabbit trails you want. The fact is, that when people demand the right to drive under any and all conditions, even when they know they are impaired, we have a problem with rights. The free exercise of my rights doesn't put other people at high risk of injury or death because I am responsible. I don't assume I am always okay to drive. If someone has been stopped because they are in the wrong lane, and they fail a field sobriety test (reaction and coordination), they should learn to make other arrangements. Clearly what we have in the OP is someone who can feel but he can't hear. He has not learned that under certain circumstances he is not okay to drive. If he has been told that 10 times and is still driving after heavy alcohol consumption, he needs to be taught another way.

There are many free or inexpensive ways to get sober and stay that way. Clearly, the man discussed in the OP has not used the resources at his disposal. At some point he needs to be compelled to either stop drinking or stop driving.
 
euphemia said:
Chase all the rabbit trails you want. The fact is, that when people demand the right to drive under any and all conditions, even when they know they are impaired, we have a problem with rights. The free exercise of my rights doesn't put other people at high risk of injury or death because I am responsible. I don't assume I am always okay to drive. If someone has been stopped because they are in the wrong lane, and they fail a field sobriety test (reaction and coordination), they should learn to make other arrangements. Clearly what we have in the OP is someone who can feel but he can't hear. He has not learned that under certain circumstances he is not okay to drive. If he has been told that 10 times and is still driving after heavy alcohol consumption, he needs to be taught another way.

There are many free or inexpensive ways to get sober and stay that way. Clearly, the man discussed in the OP has not used the resources at his disposal. At some point he needs to be compelled to either stop drinking or stop driving.
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I agree 100%. And everyone who drives above the speed limit should likewise be compelled to stop driving. They are putting lives at risk.

Same goes for people who make rolling stops at stop signs. I don't have statistics on hand for how many traffic casualties are due to people not making a full and complete stop at stop signs, but I imagine it's quite a few.

These people need to be taken off the roads. Many lives would be saved.
 
TheTexan said:
I agree 100%. And everyone who drives above the speed limit should likewise be compelled to stop driving. They are putting lives at risk.

Same goes for people who make rolling stops at stop signs. I don't have statistics on hand for how many traffic casualties are due to people not making a full and complete stop at stop signs, but I imagine it's quite a few.

These people need to be taken off the roads. Many lives would be saved.
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Thanks, my friend, for ensuring my right to feel safe.
 
euphemia said:
Chase all the rabbit trails you want. The fact is, that when people demand the right to drive under any and all conditions, even when they know they are impaired, we have a problem with rights. The free exercise of my rights doesn't put other people at high risk of injury or death because I am responsible. I don't assume I am always okay to drive. If someone has been stopped because they are in the wrong lane, and they fail a field sobriety test (reaction and coordination), they should learn to make other arrangements. Clearly what we have in the OP is someone who can feel but he can't hear. He has not learned that under certain circumstances he is not okay to drive. If he has been told that 10 times and is still driving after heavy alcohol consumption, he needs to be taught another way.

There are many free or inexpensive ways to get sober and stay that way. Clearly, the man discussed in the OP has not used the resources at his disposal. At some point he needs to be compelled to either stop drinking or stop driving.
Click to expand...

Sorry but you are wrong. "My right to swing my arms ends at your nose..." This simple statement puts rights and responsibilities into perspective. I have a right to swing my arms but that right ends when I hit your nose (or other parts). As long as I'm not causing harm to persons or property I have a right to do whatever I want. Shoot a gun in a crowded theater? Yes, if I can do it without hurting anyone or any property then I have that right (it would be pretty hard to pull that off). Drive drunk?? I knew many who could drive better drunk than a lot of people I know driving sober. I don't recommend it but as long as you have not hurt anyone then you have that right. You actually have a "right" to do any stupid thing that you want to do. Most of the time people don't do stupid things because some stupid things result in ending your life and most people want to live...
 
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