Zelensky says goal is overthrow Putin, retake Crimea!

Because it is, as I just explained above. Which part of a nuclear staring contest between US and Russia do you think doesn't constitute an existential threat (to both Russia and us)?

But it's not.... your explanation makes sense for Lugansk but not for Lviv.

If NATO pushes its border to Lugansk... this would definitely be a volatile situation, for the reasons you have already described.

If NATO pushes its border to Lviv..... shrug? I fail to see how this would present an "existential threat" to Russia? Lviv is about as far west into western Ukraine as you can get. Russia does not care about Lviv.


My point was that the border of NATO is currently officially at the western border of Ukraine. If Ukraine joins NATO, that moves to the eastern border. Then, suppose NATO starts riots in Kiev again, and Russia responds by decisively and effectively defending its interests in that region (pretty much the current situation, or what it's teetering towards). Then, Ukraine tattles on Russia to the NATO principal, and NATO calls on "US support" against "Russian interference" in Ukraine. Then, the suicidal clown-wing of the DC Swamp starts saber-rattling to stage a full boots-on-the-ground occupation of Ukraine "to defend NATO" against "Russian aggression". This would be a Bay of Pigs situation for Russia.

Why would Russia care about what happens in Kiev? If Kiev is rioting, why does Russia care? It's not a Russian region.

If Kiev were shelling Donbass, Putin would care (as is happening today). But if Kiev were otherwise minding its own business, why does Putin care about riots in Kiev?

Putin annexed Crimea not because of what happened in Kiev, but because what was about to happen in Crimea.

Putin does not otherwise care about Kiev.


And you know what's the most absurd Clown World part of it all? This is all on the opposite side of the globe. As an American citizen, I don't give a damn about the internal squabbles of Ex-Soviet satellites. It's none of my business and I don't care. But I'm forced to at least comprehend the basic situation because our interference over there causes political blowback here, which directly affects me and my community. The mugging I just took at the gas-pump is connected to the internal political squabbles of Ukraine and Russia. And that's absurd. The Swamp has got to go...

Yes and this clown shit will probably start WW III. For no good reason other than clown shit
 
But it's not.... your explanation makes sense for Lugansk but not for Lviv.

What you're saying makes no sense. From the standpoint of NATO, Ukraine will be treated as a single country. If Ukraine joins NATO, NATO is going to start legally/diplomatically harassing Russia about Crimea. "Crimea is a region of Ukraine now, which is a member of NATO. Leave or face the music." And so on. NATO will never agree to a partitioning.

If NATO pushes its border to Lugansk... this would definitely be a volatile situation, for the reasons you have already described.

And that's exactly why Russia is taking the actions that it is taking (probably all past-tense by now, as far as I can tell, all the news coming out of that area now is fake.)

If NATO pushes its border to Lviv..... shrug? I fail to see how this would present an "existential threat" to Russia? Lviv is about as far west into western Ukraine as you can get. Russia does not care about Lviv.

Which is the reason I mentioned Lviv. That's the line where Russia doesn't care or, at least, that's how it seems to me as an outsider.

Why would Russia care about what happens in Kiev? If Kiev is rioting, why does Russia care? It's not a Russian region.

For the same reason the US would care if the FSB were to instigate crime and riots in Mexico City. It's cover for political and strategic fast-balls.

If Kiev were shelling Donbass, Putin would care (as is happening today). But if Kiev were otherwise minding its own business, why does Putin care about riots in Kiev?

Putin does not directly care about Kiev. But the idea that Ukraine is as disconnected from Russian affairs as, say, Iceland is, is ridiculous. If you think Moscow doesn't pay extremely close attention to what's going on in Kiev... I don't know what to say. The Maidan was a counter-Moscow coup. The purpose was to evict Russian political influence in Kiev. Ukraine and Russia are next-door neighbors, it is a matter of course that political influence occurs across their borders. Therefore, Maidan was a strategic signal to Moscow that NATO has aggressive, hostile intentions in Ukraine. Crimea was the price they paid for their stunt.

Putin annexed Crimea not because of what happened in Kiev, but because what was about to happen in Crimea.

Putin does not otherwise care about Kiev.

He doesn't care about Kiev itself, but he absolutely cares about NATO and the encroachment of NATO on Moscow's doorstep. I don't think Moscow has a casual attitude towards the northern encroachment in Latvia, etc. but Moscow has made it crystal clear that Ukraine is a red line. I'm basically repeating what I hear Lavrov say in interviews, so I'm not sure why I need to convey any of this information to you... it's right there in their public statements, there is zero speculation involved. And Russia has no reasons to lie because they have a purely defensive stance on their western border. So yes, I believe Russian official statements in this respect, and I do not believe NATO or US propaganda despite the fact that I'm an American citizen. This is the weirdness of Clown World and apparently we all just have to get used it in Klaus Schwab's bug-eating "New Normal"...

Yes and this clown $#@! will probably start WW III. For no good reason other than clown $#@!

And nothing we can actually do about it at this stage except bemoan our plight... :shrugging:
 
What you're saying makes no sense. From the standpoint of NATO, Ukraine will be treated as a single country. If Ukraine joins NATO, NATO is going to start legally/diplomatically harassing Russia about Crimea. "Crimea is a region of Ukraine now, which is a member of NATO. Leave or face the music." And so on. NATO will never agree to a partitioning.

Hey man... I'm just going by what you said.

For the US, having the NATO border at Lviv or at Luhansk is just another trophy to add to its endless collection of trophies. For Russia, it's an existential threat.

If you had said NATO border at "all of Ukraine".. then sure.. but that's not what you said....

I think we pretty much agree... so I'll leave it at that...
 
Hey man... I'm just going by what you said.



If you had said NATO border at "all of Ukraine".. then sure.. but that's not what you said....

I think we pretty much agree... so I'll leave it at that...

OK, my wording was pretty bad there. I meant, if they move it from Lviv to Lu[hg]ansk / Tomhanks (as a result of pushing them into NATO) it would be a trophy, etc.
 
Not sure I get your point. Since 2014 the US and west in general has been dumping weapons into Ukraine by the truckloads.

To Football Hooligans steeped in Nazi ideology and Racial Superiority.

What could go wrong? It's not like they have radioactive materials or Bio weapons.
 
And nothing we can actually do about it at this stage except bemoan our plight... :shrugging:

That's how it always was in this country. Bitch, moan, protest, but it doesn't stop it from being what it is.

Once you start looking at this country objectively, you don't stop.
 
How fcking retarded do you have to be to think that you have the military force to take on a superpower?
 
How fcking retarded do you have to be to think that you have the military force to take on a superpower?

Some experts say that Ukraine had the strongest military in western Europe. From all the weapons they were given since 2014.

"had" being the key word.
 
Big goals for a tiny mind..

he should go back to playing piano with his dick.
 
Ukraine had the 3rd largest stockpile of nuclear weapons. A nuclear detterence was the gold standard of not getting invaded. Sort of like how a well armed population is the detterence against a tyrannical government.

Threats to use those were the reason Putin went in after the Nazi Punks.
 
Some experts say that Ukraine had the strongest military in western Europe. From all the weapons they were given since 2014.

"had" being the key word.

France and the UK do. Funny how we don't think of them as military powers anymore.
Let the shleps do the dirty work... Ukrainians doing the dirty work for the nouveau riche.
 
Some experts say that Ukraine had the strongest military in western Europe. From all the weapons they were given since 2014.

"had" being the key word.

There has been some impressive removal, with little collateral damage.
 
The USA signed the Budapest memo and paid Ukraine to disarm themselves. This is why you never give up your guns.

Allowing Ukraine, with its history of chaos and corruption, to keep and control nukes is akin to giving a machine gun to a chimpanzee.
 
Allowing Ukraine, with its history of chaos and corruption, to keep and control nukes is akin to giving a machine gun to a chimpanzee.

We let Russia keep their nukes and propped up their government. We made economic deals that allowed Russia to bribe it's oligarchs so they didn't sell them.
 
How fcking retarded do you have to be to think that you have the military force to take on a superpower?

I mean, Zelensky has F-15s and nukes, so he should be fi-- wait a second, <checks notes>, scratch that, it turns out that Zelensky and Biden are both full of crap...
 
We let Russia keep their nukes and propped up their government. We made economic deals that allowed Russia to bribe it's oligarchs so they didn't sell them.

87Rzkhh.gif
 

We bought up everything the Soviet Union had for sale. Even their rockets. We kept buying their rockets for decades so that their rocket scientists wouldnt go work for China. It's funny the Russians even had a joke that we would need a broomstick to get to the space station without them. We even acted like we couldn't make any of our own rockets so we didn't demoralize them.
 
We bought up everything the Soviet Union had for sale. Even their rockets. We kept buying their rockets for decades so that their rocket scientists wouldnt go work for China. It's funny the Russians even had a joke that we would need a broomstick to get to the space station without them. We even acted like we couldn't make any of our own rockets so we didn't demoralize them.

98pvIg2.gif
 
We let Russia keep their nukes and propped up their government. We made economic deals that allowed Russia to bribe it's oligarchs so they didn't sell them.

You been smoking Crack with Hunter?

Russia should have Kept all of Ukraine,..when they owned it.
Independence let all the wolves invade and destroy them.. Clinton/McCain installed a Puppet. Promoted the Nazi Ideology,,and Armed the football Hooligans,, and let them destroy the country for 8 years.

Then the Punks started Threatening Russia.

Result is ongoing.

You do have a Lot of radicalized Violent Punks shipped all over Europe,,to cause trouble wherever they go.

so there is that.
 
Back
Top