Zeitgeist Addendum = Steaming Pile of NWO Propaganda

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Gautier, are you the same prick that banned me from freedomainradio? If not, sorry.

 

[Mini-Me]

I'll read your posts later, because I'm about to go get drunk and hopefully find a hooker or two. I'm just saying, a world government, totally transparent, with total regulation over their authority provided by a very detailed and concise group of checks and balances, could do the world more good than bad. Of course it would have to be a neigh perfect system from the get go, but I just don't see how a situation like that could be bad, at all.

I won't go into detail, basically because this is the god damn Internet, and for a person like me to even try starting a philosophical debate over the subject would just be utterly pointless. And no, I don't believe in centralized economy or any of that shit.

I just think some of your guys' views are just naturally skewered, because of the depth some of you get into with this stuff. Like I've said in past posts, I am a very optimistic person. I see what these corrupt people are trying to accomplish, I just think they are going to fail miserable because their inherent plan is totally flawed, no matter how calculated and detailed their plans.

Some day, every single person on this planet is just going to wake up, and say "No." Its going to happen. Some of the people on this forum have these dystopia wet dreams; worlds like that are pure fantasy. Its just not natural. The world is very balanced, for every bad thing in the world there are plenty of good things. Some people need to just take a step back and realize this.

I agree that some of the conspiracy-based stuff is pretty out there (Reptilians?!?), though not all of it, and it actually seems that you and I are on the same page on that. I also try to be a positive person, but I'm a very cautious person too. "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." In any case, based on this post, I think the last post I linked to might be the most convincing for you (maybe not, though). If nothing else, I'm definitely glad I don't have to write an anti-Communist manifesto again.

The main point against world government, though, is that while extensive checks and balances certainly help bring systems "closer" to being foolproof, there are never any guarantees, and it's dangerous to rely so much on them that we ignore the potential consequences of what might happen if and when they're circumvented.

 

[TGautier421]

Gautier, are you the same prick that banned me from freedomainradio? If not, sorry.

Apology accepted.

 

[Carole]

We have not had true Capitalism and real free trade for decades.

What we have had is "managed" trade and pseudo-Capitalism. In other words, by interfering with the real Capitalism and true free trade, the money managers and power brokers have made it appear that Capitalism and free trade are evil.

It is always sleight of hand with them. They are very devious and evil and Draconian.

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Apology accepted.

You're not the same guy?

sorry. my bad. his name is very similar to yours

 

[Ken Iovino]

Definitely thought provoking. I visited the projects main website and instantly noticed that their research center is up for sale for $500k. I guess the project isn't going well if they have to sell their research center. I also did some searching on "Jacque Fresco" and found this. I guess he wants to teach people to draw, but I didn't see a price. After clicking the Visa logo, I got redirected to a paypal page that says the following:

Simpleology Great Teachers Series: Jacque Fresco Teaches Drawing
Free for the first month
Then $297.00 USD for one month

Something just doesn't feel right about this guy.

 

[Petar]

Definitely thought provoking. I visited the projects main website and instantly noticed that their research center is up for sale for $500k. I guess the project isn't going well if they have to sell their research center. I also did some searching on "Jacque Fresco" and found this. I guess he wants to teach people to draw, but I didn't see a price. After clicking the Visa logo, I got redirected to a paypal page that says the following:

Simpleology Great Teachers Series: Jacque Fresco Teaches Drawing
Free for the first month
Then $297.00 USD for one month

Something just doesn't feel right about this guy.

I'd like to know if those turds would like to give me all of their money if they think that it is just so evil.

Turds.

 

[Teenforpaul08]

Lol, you guys are as hostile as the next party supporters. And to think you're any different. Ron Paul is different. I guess he is the only difference in this society. People here have an agenda, people in McCain's camp have their agenda. No body really cares about others.

It's also funny that I made a similar thread and it got moved but here someone makes a thread bashing the movie and it gets to stay. Censorship much? And I thought we had enough of it during the primaries with Ron Paul. Might as well call this site, "Libertarian-minded only forums."

 

[BarryDonegan]

Lol, you guys are as hostile as the next party supporters. And to think you're any different. Ron Paul is different. I guess he is the only difference in this society. People here have an agenda, people in McCain's camp have their agenda. No body really cares about others.

It's also funny that I made a similar thread and it got moved but here someone makes a thread bashing the movie and it gets to stay. Censorship much? And I thought we had enough of it during the primaries with Ron Paul. Might as well call this site, "Libertarian-minded only forums."

you've made an excellent argument for this topic being moved to hot topics as well.

bad movie, should be in the topic area for bad, unrelated socialist movies.

 

[fatjohn]

you've made an excellent argument for this topic being moved to hot topics as well.

bad movie, should be in the topic area for bad, unrelated socialist movies.

Counterargument: It features Ron Paul!
An interview with Paul on fox isn't removed to hot topics either now is it?

 

[Alawn]

Counterargument: It features Ron Paul!
An interview with Paul on fox isn't removed to hot topics either now is it?

You do realize it specifically says at 1:04:30 not to vote for Ron Paul or people like him don't you?

 

[Conza88]

You do realize it specifically says at 1:04:30 not to vote for Ron Paul or people like him don't you?

No he didn't. He's too busy hating humanity & wishing all the producers in society were dead, but not the donut makers... fatjohn wouldn't like that.

</ad hominem>

 

[Mini-Me]

Lol, you guys are as hostile as the next party supporters. And to think you're any different. Ron Paul is different. I guess he is the only difference in this society. People here have an agenda, people in McCain's camp have their agenda. No body really cares about others.

It's also funny that I made a similar thread and it got moved but here someone makes a thread bashing the movie and it gets to stay. Censorship much? And I thought we had enough of it during the primaries with Ron Paul. Might as well call this site, "Libertarian-minded only forums."

Contrary to your assertion, I do indeed care about people...but when it comes to politics, everyone has an agenda, and even you are not exempt. There's not inherently anything wrong with that - it all depends on what in particular each of our agendas are. That movie had an agenda as well, and the people "bashing" it are actually just trying to shed some light on what they believe the movie's agenda to be. Many of us here are very quick to point out that our current economic system is not free market capitalism, since that's such a common misconception. There really is reason to believe that it's constantly referred to as free market capitalism solely to provoke a reactionary shift toward a more collectivist/tyrannical system (e.g. socialism), which can then be implemented with the apparent consent of the people. It's classic manipulation, and I think a lot of people are disgusted by the video precisely because they're noticing it again and again. Also, religious people will naturally take offense at any anti-religious movie, but that's a fight I'll leave for the religious people. I actually used to have some very socialist leanings, but after realizing how much I'd been misled, I've become very wary of all of the same anti-capitalist propaganda that worked its way into my head and was able to manipulate my thinking. I wrote some pretty long and even convincing diatribes against capitalism only a year-and-a-half ago or so, which I can now poke tons of logical and factual holes in today...but they seemed correct to me then. For the record, I went from a neocon as I was growing up, to briefly considering and rejecting libertarianism as I became disillusioned with the police state and warmongering, to a diehard liberal with socialist sympathies as I became appalled by our wealth gap, and finally to the way I think today. The only end of the 2-dimensional political spectrum I've never adhered to is the totalitarian statist end, corresponding to various collectivist ideologies like Communism, Nazism, totalitarian socialism East Germany style, etc. (They have their differences, but their great similarity is that the government has totalitarian authority over everything.) Considering all this, I think it's fair to say that I'm not some closed-minded idealogue who has never considered other belief sets or who wants to eat the babies of anyone who disagrees with me...I've certainly considered other ideas, and I've even argued for them. I can empathize with the people who think in those ways, even as frustrating as it can be trying to convince them to change their minds. It took me a long time before I was able to recognize all of my false assumptions, my naivete, my logical fallacies, how my emotions clouded my judgment, etc. Now, I just do my best to continue learning and to combat the same misconceptions I used to have.

Anyway, you mentioned that everyone here has an agenda, and you're right. Here, the prevailing agenda is freedom for all, though I suppose a lot of people might have some secondary agendas as well. In any case, freedom for all includes both economic and social/civil freedom, because they cannot be realistically separated without also giving the government the practical means and leverage to intrude once more on the other. When a movie comes out with some views contrary to personal liberty that people here find misleading and dangerous, I think it's pretty reasonable for us to call said movie out on its propaganda.

Still, there's something unique about libertarianism that other political ideologies do not share, and once you realize this I think you'll understand the "agenda" here a little bit better. Here's a quote I'd like to expound upon:

The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.
- David D. Boaz, 1997​

Do you understand why this makes sense? Even if ALL government is libertarian at all levels, those who choose to come together, pool their resources, abolish their property rights with respect to each other, etc. can create enclaves of full-out Communism, and nobody will try to stop them. On the other hand, if the federal government is socialist, it will tax the hell out of every single person in the whole country and/or have the power to destroy their currency, even if a full 49% want absolutely no part of such a system.

Furthermore, if the federal government were libertarian with a strong emphasis on states' rights, the state governments could feasibly adopt whatever ideology their people wanted them to, even ideologies diametrically opposed to libertarianism. The more libertarian the federal government is, the truer this point becomes and the more people can live their lives the way they want without constant federal interference. Decentralization provides variety, and it also provides for competition between the various states for constituents willing to live in each. The Constitution - as it was originally written and when it is read the way the Framers intended (read the Federalist Papers for context) - is a primarily libertarian document, with a few extra powers granted to the government that are not entirely libertarian...but hell, I wouldn't complain much if we limited ourselves to just those. Granted, most of us here on these forums would probably also want a libertarian-style state and local government, but we'd have 50 different shots at that at the state level. However, if the federal government is socialist, Communist, fascist, or "whatever else" - all of which require gross infringements of the Constitution by the way - that becomes impossible. When I say "whatever else," I'm referring to our current two-party system, where the "conservative" camp is headed toward fascism but not there yet (i.e. Nazi-style national socialism), and the "liberal" camp is headed toward East Germany style regular socialism but not there yet.

Today, the federal government holds pretty much all of the political power in America. When the federal government adopts any ideology other than libertarianism, it takes powers for itself that are incompatible with the idea of federalism and decentralization of power. Because of this, the entire country will have to fall under that ideology, and nobody can "vote with their feet" to get away. If 51% of the people in America want full-on authoritarian fascism at the federal level, or really just 51% of those who vote, that's what everyone gets. A lot of people still fear the idea of states' rights and equate it with small-minded ideologies like racism, of course, but there's a transparent reason why the establishment encourages such fears.

Chipping away at federal totalitarianism and restoring limited Constitutional government would pretty much benefit everyone except the ruling elite. This is what makes the agenda here so different from the agenda in the McCain camp, the Obama camp, etc. They all want to rule the whole country in some particular way. We just want the government to stop ruling with an iron fist in the first place. We just want the government to return to its limited Constitutional roots so that we the people could be given more self-determination.

P.S. You made a comment about thread-moving and censorship. As far as I know, it's the moderators' policy to move all hardcore conspiracy-related threads to Hot Topics anyway, so I don't think yours was singled out. This one just got overlooked, it seems.

 

[chowdy]

This movie made me rage so hard. I watched it just to get pissed off, I think. Why did they say that socialism and capitalism are the same, yet get two retards almost literally reading from a utopian socialist script as a solution?

 

[Mini-Me]

This movie made me rage so hard. I watched it just to get pissed off, I think. Why did they say that socialism and capitalism are the same, yet get two retards almost literally reading from a utopian socialist script as a solution?

A form of doublespeak?

 

[constituent]

lol, not this s* again.