Your Views On What A US Economic Collapse Might Look Like

[JK/SEA]

collapse?...everything is fine. Go back to sleep.

 

[Tod]

This!

People, we are in an economic collapse. It is here. It is happening now. There won't be some cataclysmic event that will happen where everyone will all of the sudden be like, "Ooops. I guess we were wrong. The economy has collapsed. Better start bartering for food." There may be several minor events that happen, but your media will elide over the severity. Rome didn't fall in a day.

So what will it look like? High long-term unemployment. High inflation. Your money will buy less and less. Borrowing will become more difficult. Interest rates will rise (This one hasn't happened yet, thanks to the Fed. But eventually, they'll have to allow them to rise in order to spur lending.) Many people will just give up and become more and more dependent on government. Those who hang on to their prosperity the longest will have more and more of it taken away in order to pay for those that gave up. The police state will become more aggressive, and there will be incidents of people rebelling against it. Those people will be lambasted in the media and public opinion. Our influence abroad will be less and less respected. Our enemies will be enraged by our aggression and emboldened by our moral weakness. Our government will build more weapons to quell the uprisings at home and abroad and to continue the vain attempt to keep the populace employed.

So you ask what it will look like? Like Damian said, "Look out your window."

You don't think there will be a major re-valuing of the dollar and subsequent problems with just-in-time delivery, leading to shortages/stoppage of critical stuff like food?

 

[CaptUSA]

You don't think there will be a major re-valuing of the dollar and subsequent problems with just-in-time delivery, leading to shortages/stoppage of critical stuff like food?

I think the re-valuing of the dollar is already happening. As for the subsequent problems, I think that each time something happens, it will be viewed in terms of a specific problem and not in its entirety. Because of that, I don't think anyone will notice. I do expect shortages, but not in a widespread manner that would signal to the average person that there is a systemic problem. There will be events, but there are already events happening. I think this is the collapse. It will get worse, but not all at once.

 

[tod evans]

Those plastic food-stamp cards are all that's keeping riots at bay...

 

[Tod]

Those plastic food-stamp cards are all that's keeping riots at bay...

Are retailers required to accept them if they don't believe they are being fairly compensated? Or will the cards just buy less and less?

 

[tod evans]

Are retailers required to accept them if they don't believe they are being fairly compensated? Or will the cards just buy less and less?

Don't have any idea, I've never used or accepted one....

 

[Tod]

Don't have any idea, I've never used or accepted one....

Same here, although in retrospect, I'm guessing that they are just worth a certain amount of money and the money can only be spent on certain things (my local grocery store has little tags that say "WIC approved" on some items) so if things get out of kilter the "customer" will quickly be able to buy less and less with them.

It wasn't that long ago that I saw people in line with paper food stamps which would surely cause problems for the grocer should prices be changing rapidly. The electronic cards probably mean instantaneous transfers....

 

[osan]

Meaning what? That our supply of energy will sustain us? What does that mean for the average person/family if the dollar collapses. For how long will our energy supply sustain us? Please expand.

The US is different from the Soviet Union only cosmetically. There, the so-called "state" owned everything. Here, it is the "bank". Both are nothing more than labels denoting subsets of the population. There is no material "bank" or "state", save the effects such as buildings, vaults, and so forth. "State" and "bank" are conceptual constructs. Recall the old Indian monkey trap where food is placed into a jar. Monkey sticks hand in, grabs food, becomes trapped because the hole is too small to let his balled up hand pass. So it is with politics and all manner of other aspects of human life. So long as we believe in the reality of banks and states and "the people", etc., they will be subject to the grip and the dictates of those beliefs. Monkey trap.

The US population contains the world's sole surviving group of freedom-oriented people of not only significant proportion, but of the means to assert that freedom, all nonsense protest of rifles v. tanks notwithstanding. Because there is an agenda afoot for world government, which is a thin euphemism for world dominion, there exists a need for psychological uniformity among all those over whom dominion is sought. The uniformity must be absolute and perfectly pervasive such that any deviance will be automatically "handled" by those who are dominated. That is, they shall be self-policing, self-oppressing, self-limiting, self-defeating. Given this necessary condition, it is imperative there exist no examples of nations such as the USA that excel in any manner or degree beyond that which is deemed acceptable, for to tolerate such a thing would be to invite disaster to your empire because people will see. Seeing will prompt even the dullest among the uniformly dull and thought-trained to begin to wonder, "if them, why not us?" and thereby is the seed of the tyrant's eventual and inevitable destruction sown.

All that said, the way to reduce the people of the USA to the required standard of material and psychological life is not the same as that of the most of the rest of the world. The Soviets were different in that they were an already conquered people, broken to the halter by the master and unlikely to rise in rebellion of any dangerous significance. Indeed, we witnessed the expressions of the desire by many for a return to the good old days of the soviet, even if a new Stalin had to be tolerated. Better the bread line than no possibility of bread.

Americans are different in the ways in which they see themselves in the world. All the bad aspects of the more recent mean psychological profile aside, huge numbers of us are still endowed with the spirit of rebellion against those who presume authority over us, and while this does present examples of greater net negativity in terms of results, the overwhelming tendency is that of the good. In many this world-orientation is strong and healthy and has helped us retain what freedoms are left to us today. Those Americans will not accept soviet-style orders, but because they do accept "free enterprise", they can and may be defeated by the leverage the banks hold over them. The wallet is the approach we will see here and so long as the basics of life are available there will be NO credible risk of general insurrection.

As the economy spirals downward, which will only happen if the people sufficiently resist the current drives to further curtail their rights (gun control, for example), and people approach a panic threshold, the "government" will likely hold out its beneficent hand in different ways to different people depending upon what each party seeks. Some will want food, others not to lose "their" homes, and so forth. In any event, it will all reduce to issues of material want on the part of the to-be-conquered American citizenry. On the part of government the equal consideration shall be but one thing: authority to control by consent of the controlled.

This is not something that will happen casually, mind you. I believe that They will take a great portion of us right to the very edge of terror such that we will never forget and thereby be less inclined to have second thoughts later. That is the stick. The carrot shall consist of being provided for by the gentle hand of the Master such that we need never again fear for our stomachs aching with hunger and our limbs shivering with the wet and cold. This will be impossibly powerful and irresistible to what I suspect will be a majority sufficient to keep the rest under control.

Never make the mistake of assessing the timid man as a universal coward. When loaned a spine, courtesy of state imprimatur, he becomes one of the most unimaginably vicious adversaries imaginable and it is precisely people of this low character, people that exist in wild abundance, who will be recruited as the new force to help the beloved Master achieve his noble goal of shepherding the entire flock.

Those shivering, frightened, despicable examples of humanity will be readily identified and recruited as the new wave of citizen informers and enforcers. In exchange for their newly found positions of authority and their guaranteed meal tickets will be their unquestioning loyalty to Them and the physical signing away of their Rights, their signatures indicating their admission and confession that neither do their rights ever exist in the first place, claiming that they did constituted a crime against "society". They will promise never again to transgress and to do all that "society" demands of them. In exchange they will be fed, clothed, housed. In this scenario, those so recruited will develop a hatred for their fellows of the bitterest nature and greatest intensity. These people will become the equivalents of Nikolai Yezhov, Stalin's lap dog to whom the moniker "bloody dwarf" was ascribed. He was, in fact, so shockingly murderous that Stalin eventually had him shot. The mind reels and fails in an attempt to comprehend how insanely dangerous one must be that a man like Stalin would even be appalled.

The levers against us here are many. Our weakness is our weakness. We are not accustomed to privation of food and heat and shelter, yet these are the very things that can be so very readily imposed upon us. It will not happen all in one day, I suspect. It can be set into motion one household at a time. Dad can't get work. Money runs out. Now what? Steals a loaf of bread? Perhaps is caught, faces jail time, and what of the wife and children? Not so terribly difficult to visualize. "Mr. Average, we understand your plight and we want to help. I believe you would agree that there is not great purpose served by placing you into jail for the next six months, leaving your family without a provider, yes? But we cannot allow people such as yourself to go around stealing, can we? What shall we do?... Here's our proposal: you can go home tonight to your wife and children if you sign this document. In return, you will become a ward of the state, you and your family that is, and we will provide you with work and the means to live a very good life. How does that grab you?"

Mr. Average signs his and his family's rights into oblivion, goes to work for Them in whatever capacity they deem desired, and the world continues turning.

We are far too well armed for Them to risk a real tet-a-tet. Why assume such risk when all one needs do is turn off the spigot in cleverly conceived ways to drive the cattle through the stock yard as desired? Does the slaughterhouse worker start shooting at the cattle? No, they simply guide them to the hammer. The cattle do 99.9% of the work necessary to their own destruction. Any Master worth his guano does the same. Efficiency can be a beautiful thing, as you can see.

Because we are armed and persist in holding on to these silly notions of individualism and liberty, we must be broken by other means - more gradual means and that is why a "collapse" will not be the same here as they have been elsewhere. We remain dangerous whereas the rest of the world has been de-balled.

Finally, and as regards those pockets of die-hard individualists, They can wait them out or simply send in armed battalions of enforcers who will not be charged with apprehending, but with wiping such enemies of the people from the roles of the living. The rest will in time come to cheer these purgative actions and that will be the sign that the Master's goal has been successfully attained.

Have a pleasant day.

 

[Madison320]

I think the best case scenario is that the dollar collapses slowly and we "only" get price inflation of maybe 20-40% a year. That will still be high enough to make it by far the number one problem but we'll have time to do something about it. At that point we may actually do the right thing and drastically cut spending and stabilize the dollar with gold backing. Worst case scenario is an extremely rapid collapse of the dollar. Then all hell will break loose. I have no idea what will happen under that scenario.

 

[TonySutton]

Anarchy isn't such a bad thing

 

[AgentforPathfinder]

The fuels run out. The trucks of food cannot get over. The richest people have backup generators. Rich areas stay ok, but with limited supplies.

Riots, that the military is called to crush. Then the military splits in half between liberals and conservatives (like what happened in Germany in 1919). The leftists and the rightists of the military align with different prison gangs.

The heartland survives, than flourishes.

 

[youngbuck]

IMHO, I think we'll go to war before a full-fledged economic collapse occurs. And by war, I mean on the level of WWIII.

 

[paulbot24]

IMHO, I think we'll go to war before a full-fledged economic collapse occurs. And by war, I mean on the level of WWIII.

That would make sense since wars are good for the economy. /sarc

 

[libertygrl]

Thanks for all the responses. There's alot to think about but I think I'm starting to see possible scenarios emerging.

The reason why I started this thread is because as a kid, I used to hear older relatives talk about how tough the Great Depression was and I remember seeing old movies with people in major cities living in tenement houses , waiting on breadlines, going from city to city trying to find work, etc. (while the very wealthy would be partying at the hottest night spot)

I was just wondering if our collapse would resemble something like that or something like the Soviet Union's, or worse! This country has had tough times before but the thought of the dollar collapsing has me most concerned because how will people survive if they can't use it anymore? (unless you have gold/silver of course)

 

[A Son of Liberty]

There are already bread lines. Pay attention to how the people in front of you in line at the supermarket pay.

Secondly, everyone would do very well to read, or re-read, Osan's post, above. That's the thread winner.

 

[Czolgosz]

An economic collapse would be good for freedom. I figure the country will break up into parts, and that's where I'll move. Much (not all) sanity will be restored in one specific region, it will recover in 5-10 years and show signs of solid growth.

 

[pcosmar]

IMHO, I think we'll go to war before a full-fledged economic collapse occurs. And by war, I mean on the level of WWIII.

I would expect it to be concurrent .

A possible view of what it would look like,,,

 

[CaptUSA]

There are already bread lines. Pay attention to how the people in front of you in line at the supermarket pay.

Exactly. Just because our bread lines look different doesn't mean they do not exist. Technology has just transformed the method.

I wonder if those cards didn't work and people really had to line up for their disbursement if people would recognize the problem? Prolly not...

Real unemployment is higher now than in the "Great Depression". The only reason our GDP is staying afloat is because they count government "stimulus". It's not growth. The stock market is only up in terms of dollars - not wealth. And the only reason they're pumping that up is to trick the fogies into giving up their jobs so young people will be able to have a job.

It's as if the Fed and the media have colluded to hide the fact that things are really, really bad. With enough technological advances and marketing expertise, they probably would have been able to hide the great depression, too. Sure, people would suffer, but nobody would know why.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Exactly. Just because our bread lines look different doesn't mean they do not exist. Technology has just transformed the method.

I wonder if those cards didn't work and people really had to line up for their disbursement if people would recognize the problem? Prolly not...

I'm often struck by the number of people and apparent disposition of those I see using the "Independence" EBT cards. I don't live in Boom Town to begin with, but especially over the past several months, it seems more often than not when I'm behind someone at the store, there's a very good chance they're swiping an EBT card.

I agree with you that people still wouldn't understand the depth of the problem even if people were lining up. I think the government would go to great lengths to avoid such a sight.

Real unemployment is higher now than in the "Great Depression". The only reason our GDP is staying afloat is because they count government "stimulus". It's not growth. The stock market is only up in terms of dollars - not wealth. And the only reason they're pumping that up is to trick the fogies into giving up their jobs so young people will be able to have a job.

It's as if the Fed and the media have colluded to hide the fact that things are really, really bad. With enough technological advances and marketing expertise, they probably would have been able to hide the great depression, too. Sure, people would suffer, but nobody would know why.

It seems that their subterfuge has been very successful. The mountain of ignorance we as a movement face is staggering. People have almost no concept of what wealth is, how money in an economy works, why savings is so important yet why it is impossible in our current environment... the prevailing knowledge of society has been completely subverted such that things that were once very well understood and taken as a matter of fact have been utterly cast aside. A return to such basic concepts requires nothing short of a total paradigm shift... and I have been brainstorming a few ideas to start that process, at least in my area.

 

[KrokHead]

I think that the US Collapse isn't sudden but gradual (with noticeable incremental changes into a lower quality of life.) Life the way it was ten years ago was "unacceptable" but is now the good ol' days compared to the present. Ten years from now we'll be thinking of 2013 as a time of plenty.