Yet another blessing of diversity

[Snowball]

but most of you are for the THC legalization.

It's in gummies and candy and pop. It's in vapes and cookies.

You got cannabis with booze with texting with GPS screen with prescription drugs.

The roads are death traps. I am serious they ARE.

 

[acptulsa]

but most of you are for the THC legalization.

It's in gummies and candy and pop. It's in vapes and cookies.

You got cannabis with booze with texting with GPS screen with prescription drugs.

The roads are death traps. I am serious they ARE.

Things balance out. More distractions? Yes, but fewer rednecks on Twin I Beams, bias ply tires and Bud Light.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying they were always deadly obstacle courses.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I am sorry to hear that.

My condolences.

Thanks. Wasn't a close cousin though. Some people should not be driving.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Your chart is silly because it has nothing to do with your point. Let's walk through your "thesis" if it can even be called that.

I never said it was anything more than a hunch, an idea.

Dismiss it, by all means, if you find it worthless.

But you still didn't answer why.

 

[acptulsa]

I never said it was anything more than a hunch, an idea.

Dismiss it, by all means, if you find it worthless.

But you still didn't answer why.

Can't speak for him, but I've noticed that he has an enduring libertarian faith that individuals can outperform the mean of their particular demographic, and that from time to time he likes to reassert it. Maybe I've only noticed because I, too, resemble that remark.

None of us wants to admit any resemblance we may have to George H.W. Bush, George Soros, or any of the other most dangerous enemies of liberty past and present. They ain't all Jooz.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Can't speak for him, but I've noticed that he has an enduring libertarian faith that individuals can outperform the mean of their particular demographic, and that from time to time he likes to reassert it. Maybe I've only noticed because I, too, resemble that remark.

None of us wants to admit any resemblance we may have to George H.W. Bush, George Soros, or any of the other most dangerous enemies of liberty past and present. They ain't all Jooz.

No they are not, and I am not afraid to denounce them.

Those men and men like Gates and so on, many of the perverts and sodomites are white as well, and a disgrace to our race.

 

[jmdrake]

I never said it was anything more than a hunch, an idea.

Dismiss it, by all means, if you find it worthless.

But you still didn't answer why.

Okay. Let's go with your first premise, that there are more accidents these days. I looked it up. per capita there are FEWER fatal car accidents these days!

If you start with a faulty premise you will never reach a correct conclusion. So here's MY why question. Why are we even talking about a problem that you made up in your head?

 

[jmdrake]

I live 20 miles from a college town chock full of foreigners in school , asia , middle east , jews , muslims etc , worst driving ive ever seen. I have to go there maybe 3 times a yr , if my ins guy knew he'd probably raise my rates. I feel no need for diversity of any kind.

but most of you are for the THC legalization.

It's in gummies and candy and pop. It's in vapes and cookies.

You got cannabis with booze with texting with GPS screen with prescription drugs.

The roads are death traps. I am serious they ARE.

Road deaths per capita have been steadily going down as the U.S. population is steadily rising. There are more deaths total because there are more people total which means more people on the road.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Okay. Let's go with your first premise, that there are more accidents these days. I looked it up. per capita there are FEWER fatal car accidents these days!

If you start with a faulty premise you will never reach a correct conclusion. So here's MY why question. Why are we even talking about a problem that you made up in your head?

Using per capita is an inaccurate way of measuring fatalities or accidents.

We have more people in the country, but more and more do not drive, especially young people.

You measure them the same way you measure air traffic or rail fatalities, by miles traveled.

But my source, wiki collecting NTSB data, directly contradicts yours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

In 2012 there were 1.14 people killed per 100 million VMT (Vehicle Miles Traveled).

By 2022 that number had risen to 1.35. Not a massive increase, but I never said it was.

In 2012 there were 10.75 people killed per 100,000 of population.

By 2021 (most recent data) that number had risen to 12.9.

Now, the rates fell slightly in 2023, the numbers are still being crunched, but my reading indicates that they are still higher than 2018/2019.

I stated in my OP the following:

how is it that highway deaths in the US have been trending upward over the last few years

Clearly they have, not in a massive way, but it is reversing a downward trend.

A downward trend that started almost 100 years ago, as your chart points out.

If you start with a faulty premise you will never reach a correct conclusion. So here's MY why question. Why are we even talking about a problem that you made up in your head?

You objected to my hunch because you concluded that my starting premise was wrong.

I have now offered a counter point to your points.

People will read and decide who is credible.

That's why we are talking about it.

That's supposed to be the whole point of these threads...I think anyway.

ETA - And I just noticed, your chart only goes to 2015.

My whole premise is based on a recent uptick, within the last ten years.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Road deaths per capita have been steadily going down as the U.S. population is steadily rising. There are more deaths total because there are more people total which means more people on the road.

That is where your error is.

Just because there are more people, does not mean there are more drivers.

In fact, licensed drivers have decreased at times, even as the population grows.

There were a total of 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, a decrease of 0.21% or 483,917 licensed drivers from 2019.

By 2023 estimated growth grew again, but only by 2 percent.

It’s estimated that there were over 243 million licensed drivers in the U.S. in 2023, and about 89% of Americans ages 25 and older have a driver’s license. While the COVID-19 pandemic caused the number of licensed American drivers to temporarily drop in 2020, driver licensing has since seen annual growth rates of 2% or more. This pace is expected to continue or increase in 2024 and 2025.

At the same time, however, Americans are seeking alternatives to traditional forms of transportation. Growing access to ride-hailing services, like Uber and Lyft, could demotivate those who may have otherwise sought out driver’s licenses. This cultural shift may already be evident given the drastic decrease in licensed teenage drivers when comparing licensure rates from the mid-1990s to 2021.

And that is why you use VMT and not per capita, to accurately measure traffic fatality rates.

 

[acptulsa]

Just because there are more people, does not mean there are more drivers.

And even if there are more drivers, that doesn't mean there is more driving. As OPEC taught us in 1974.

 

[jmdrake]

That is where your error is.

Just because there are more people, does not mean there are more drivers.

In fact, licensed drivers have decreased at times, even as the population grows.

There were a total of 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, a decrease of 0.21% or 483,917 licensed drivers from 2019.

By 2023 estimated growth grew again, but only by 2 percent.

It’s estimated that there were over 243 million licensed drivers in the U.S. in 2023, and about 89% of Americans ages 25 and older have a driver’s license. While the COVID-19 pandemic caused the number of licensed American drivers to temporarily drop in 2020, driver licensing has since seen annual growth rates of 2% or more. This pace is expected to continue or increase in 2024 and 2025.

At the same time, however, Americans are seeking alternatives to traditional forms of transportation. Growing access to ride-hailing services, like Uber and Lyft, could demotivate those who may have otherwise sought out driver’s licenses. This cultural shift may already be evident given the drastic decrease in licensed teenage drivers when comparing licensure rates from the mid-1990s to 2021.

And that is why you use VMT and not per capita, to accurately measure traffic fatality rates.

Dude, did you miss the fact that fatalities per VMT dropped even FASTER than fatalities per capita? Give it up. You shot your wad too quick on this one.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Dude, did you miss the fact that fatalities per VMT dropped even FASTER than fatalities per capita? Give it up. You shot your wad too quick on this one.

In 2012 there were 1.14 people killed per 100 million VMT.

The estimated fatality rate for 2023 is 1.26.

1.14 is more than 1.26.

Yes, it has fallen from 2022 rate, and I already noted that.

Come back and call me an asshole in five years, if those trends continue.

 

[jmdrake]

In 2012 there were 1.14 people killed per 100 million VMT.

The estimated fatality rate for 2023 is 1.26.

1.14 is more than 1.26.

Yes, it has fallen from 2022 rate, and I already noted that.

Come back and call me an $#@! in five years, if those trends continue.

You've got DECADES of significant decreases in deaths with regards to VMT combined with a small blip of an increase and you're ignoring all other factors other than immigration such as distracted driving.

https://martinhelms.com/blog/why-ar...2021, the,approximately 16,500 wrecks per day.

Again, most of the people immigrating to America are coming from countries who drivers are as safe or safer than white American drivers. And you still haven't explained why you ignored black countries who have driving safety records as good as the best white countries.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You've got DECADES of significant decreases in deaths with regards to VMT combined with a small blip of an increase and you're ignoring all other factors other than immigration such as distracted driving.

No I am not.

I specifically addressed that here:

I'm not going to make the case that this is the only reason for an increase in US traffic deaths, personally I think people being distracted while finger fucking phones and consoles is a bigger issue.

I never said it was a huge increase.

I never said that was the only reason for the increase.

Again, most of the people immigrating to America are coming from countries who drivers are as safe or safer than white American drivers. And you still haven't explained why you ignored black countries who have driving safety records as good as the best white countries.

1 - None of us have any idea for sure who is invading here, because they cross illegally and wander off.

2 - We do know that hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have invaded.

And we also know that Venezuela is one of the world's worst as far as traffic deaths go.

 

[jmdrake]

No I am not.

I specifically addressed that here:



I never said it was a huge increase.

I never said that was the only reason for the increase.



1 - None of us have any idea for sure who is invading here, because they cross illegally and wander off.

2 - We do know that hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have invaded.

And we also know that Venezuela is one of the world's worst as far as traffic deaths go.

We can estimate the percentages of the illegals based on those who are processed and the number of Mexicans dwarfs the number of Venezuelans. It's not even close.

 

[John-G]

You whole argument implodes based on facts that you can't disputed. In the FREAKING UNITED STATES Hispanics have lower fatality rates than whites period, end of story. Even from your own silly chart, Mexico is the same color as the U.S., yet you for some unknown reason only mentioned white countries and Japan. And Africans aren't driving the immigration rates right now. In fact Africans never have. Most immigrants are coming from Hispanic countries and Asian countries. It's not even close.

Stupid argument is stupid.

The OP argument is very bizarre, for all the reasons to hate African and Hispanic immigrants, this is not one of them. Motor vehicle accidents (MVA) has a infinitely more reasons to do with road designs, weather conditions, distracted/under the influence driving, speeding etc than IQ or skin color. Russia, which is a white country, has really bad road safety rating.

Also, you cant use death rate when assessing road safety amongst countries because then you are just really assessing their healthcare system and road accident response which we all know is poor is 3rd world countries. Luckily for humanity, very little of this has anything to do with IQ points or some other immutable factor we cannot change.

There are dozens of legitimate reasons to want a controlled immigration system but unfortunately for the OP, this is NOT one of em.

 

[John-G]

I live 20 miles from a college town chock full of foreigners in school , asia , middle east , jews , muslims etc , worst driving ive ever seen. I have to go there maybe 3 times a yr , if my ins guy knew he'd probably raise my rates. I feel no need for diversity of any kind.

Have you ever considered that they may be bad drivers because they are young college student not because they are foreigners? Not your point but I doubt that a college filled with young "asia , middle east , jews , muslims etc" have sub 80 IQ.

 

[oyarde]

Have you ever considered that they may be bad drivers because they are young college student not because they are foreigners? Not your point but I doubt that a college filled with young "asia , middle east , jews , muslims etc" have sub 80 IQ.

i doubt they are as stupid as they look too