Would you vote for a Romney/Paul ticket?

Would you vote for a Romney/Paul ticket?

  • Yes

    Votes: 101 44.9%
  • No

    Votes: 124 55.1%

  • Total voters
    225
Are those "neocons" pro big government?
They would tell you they support "limited" government, but if you ask them if they're willing to cut any military or defense spending, or the budget for "Homeland Security" they would tell you they would rather see that increased. Considering the Defense Budget is the lion's share of the federal budget, I call that "pro big government"

PolicyBasic_WhereOurTaxDollarsGo-f1_rev4-2-12.jpg


They also completely support the PATRIOT Act and the continuing wars in the Middle East, too.
 
Real neocons do not support limited government. They want to expand government at home and abroad. Irving Kristol, the guy who "neocon" was named after, was a Democrat who supported Humphrey in 1968. In 1972, he supported Nixon. In 1973, he was called a neocon by the socialist Michael Harrington.

Neocons don't want limited government. They don't talk about wanting limited government.

Just because there's a difference between the typical conservative (who you're talking about) and Ron Paul on how much government there should be, does not mean that typical conservatives are neocons. Typical conservatives often support the neocon position these days, but they don't agree on domestic policy.

They would tell you they support "limited" government, but if you ask them if they're willing to cut any military or defense spending, or the budget for "Homeland Security" they would tell you they would rather see that increased. Considering the Defense Budget is the lion's share of the federal budget, I call that "pro big government"

PolicyBasic_WhereOurTaxDollarsGo-f1_rev4-2-12.jpg


They also completely support the PATRIOT Act and the continuing wars in the Middle East, too.
 
Real neocons do not support limited government. They want to expand government at home and abroad. Irving Kristol, the guy who "neocon" was named after, was a Democrat who supported Humphrey in 1968. In 1972, he supported Nixon. In 1973, he was called a neocon by the socialist Michael Harrington.

Neocons don't want limited government. They don't talk about wanting limited government.

Just because there's a difference between the typical conservative (who you're talking about) and Ron Paul on how much government there should be, does not mean that typical conservatives are neocons. Typical conservatives often support the neocon position these days, but they don't agree on domestic policy.
Please try to remember that you're talking about a lot of people who know more about what the Kardashians are up to than parsing politics the way you just did.

I already told you that they don't really want limited government...too bad many of them are not informed enough to understand that their political beliefs don't match their words. (Just like the political figures they worship!)
 
Please try to remember that you're talking about a lot of people who know more about what the Kardashians are up to than parsing politics the way you just did.

I already told you that they don't really want limited government...too bad many of them are not informed enough to understand that their political beliefs don't match their words. (Just like the political figures they worship!)

I think parocks is talking about the actual Trotskyite Neoconservatives, born of Bill Kristol's father's brain, joined by fellow followers of Leon Strauss who believed in the 'Noble Lie' to get the masses to do what was 'good for them' as known by their betters. They want power, and don't care at all about limited government, it is just that their particular power slice is foreign policy so when the Dems started to trend 'anti war', they left the Dems and joined the National Security conservatives (a different group) in the GOP. Then they manipulated the evangelicals into being their foot soldiers using the Noble Lie -- and moving the targets to make them not expect actual results, as in talking them out of Federalism on abortion to require a Constitutional cure which will never happen -- and will keep their foot soldiers manipulatible.

That ^^ is much simplified and stereotypical, but the bones of it, as I understand it. Others who don't want to cut military tend to be national security conservatives, but if you actually sit down with them they don't want foreign countries or the IMF in a position to 'foreclose' on us either, and they are more reasonable. You can quickly tell the difference by their position on the UN etc. National security conservatives value sovereignty. Neoconservatives consider the UN a group they will control and through it the world, on the back of OUR debt and blood. And the blood of the nations we invade, of course. But never the blood of the neoconservatives, I can't think of one who actually served in the military, at least.
 
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They would tell you they support "limited" government, but if you ask them if they're willing to cut any military or defense spending, or the budget for "Homeland Security" they would tell you they would rather see that increased. Considering the Defense Budget is the lion's share of the federal budget, I call that "pro big government"

PolicyBasic_WhereOurTaxDollarsGo-f1_rev4-2-12.jpg


They also completely support the PATRIOT Act and the continuing wars in the Middle East, too.


In today's House vote on the $606 billion dollar defense appropriations bill a whopping 11 Republicans voted no. 225 voted yes.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll498.xml
 
Please try to remember that you're talking about a lot of people who know more about what the Kardashians are up to than parsing politics the way you just did.

I already told you that they don't really want limited government...too bad many of them are not informed enough to understand that their political beliefs don't match their words. (Just like the political figures they worship!)

That "really" you added is your opinion. Neocons do not say they want less government. What I'm telling you is that run of the mill conservatives (like the ones you see in Louisiana) DO SAY they want limited government. Neocons DO NOT SAY they want limited government. The difference is between DO SAY and DO NOT SAY. That's how THEY see the differences.

You can make the argument that if they don't want to cut defense, they really are for big government. And I'm not going to argue that point. THEY don't see it that way. You could argue that Romney and Santorum were exactly the same. But the supporters of each don't see it that way. There just aren't that many people over 49 who want to dismantle the fed gov. Ron Paul though, always got the most applause though, with big immediate cuts, no matter what debate he was at, and the foreign policy stuff did not go over as well. The neocons were not the ones clapping when Ron Paul said close those departments. Those were the run of the mill conservatives.
 
I think parocks is talking about the actual Trotskyite Neoconservatives, born of Bill Kristol's father's brain, joined by fellow followers of Leon Strauss who believed in the 'Noble Lie' to get the masses to do what was 'good for them' as known by their betters. They want power, and don't care at all about limited government, it is just that their particular power slice is foreign policy so when the Dems started to trend 'anti war', they left the Dems and joined the National Security conservatives (a different group) in the GOP. Then they manipulated the evangelicals into being their foot soldiers using the Noble Lie -- and moving the targets to make them not expect actual results, as in talking them out of Federalism on abortion to require a Constitutional cure which will never happen -- and will keep their foot soldiers manipulatible.

That ^^ is much simplified and stereotypical, but the bones of it, as I understand it. Others who don't want to cut military tend to be national security conservatives, but if you actually sit down with them they don't want foreign countries or the IMF in a position to 'foreclose' on us either, and they are more reasonable. You can quickly tell the difference by their position on the UN etc. National security conservatives value sovereignty. Neoconservatives consider the UN a group they will control and through it the world, on the back of OUR debt and blood. And the blood of the nations we invade, of course. But never the blood of the neoconservatives, I can't think of one who actually served in the military, at least.

Right. I'm talking about the actual Trotskyite neoconservatives, or "neoconservatives" for short. I'm not talking about the Ron Paul Forums definition of neoconservative, which often means "wants more defense than Ron Paul, who wants less defense than any politician since Robert Taft." Using that definition, everybody is a neoconservative, and we are unlearning basic political distinctions. Yes, we support the most extreme candidate that's out there. That doesn't mean that neoconservatives and eastern establishment RINOs and tea party conservatives aren't distinct. Ron Paul wants almost no fed gov at all.

You do seem to understand these various distinctions well - but most don't.
 
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