Would Paul be accepted as the nominee?

[Zera]

It's sort of world wide news that McCain is the Republican nominee, despite not even officially having the nomination (even my favorite late night host, Conan, mentions it ). But if Paul was to get the nomination, what exactly would happen? I mean, he is always fucking introduced as the "Longshot candidate, Ron Paul...". McCain is already gearing up to campaign for the general election, and the Democrats are starting to battle with him, too. I'm more than sure the average American would be very confused, some would say he stole it immorally, etc.

Could this effect us enough to where the Democrat nominee would win? By GOP voters feeling betrayed and voting for whoever is that Democrat nominee instead? Whatever does happen, Paul would need to act FAST and spread his message. It would obviously be much easier since the MSM simply wouldn't be able to ignore him at that point.

 

[NEPA_Revolution]

The Sheeple would say "Who is Ron Paul?" and we would have renewed zeal of enormous proportions

 

[Tdcci]

The Republican Party is not obligated to give Paul the nomination even if he gets the appropriate number of delegates.

You must convince your party that you are the best candidate for the general election.

 

[nate895]

He would be accepted, and he would probably even win against Hillary Clinton in the polls if she steals her nomination. But if Obama is the nominee, it is up to him to decide if that is a legitimate beef with Ron Paul or if he will keep quiet on the subject. Then, and only then, would we know the answer to your question.

 

[kevman657]

The Republican Party is not obligated to give Paul the nomination even if he gets the appropriate number of delegates.

You must convince your party that you are the best candidate for the general election.

Yeah but if he won all the states and had that much support behind him, the party would have no choice. If they said "no", they would lose an enormus amount of respect from a large group of Republicans (considering the Republicans voted for him, hypothetically). They would say yes simply for the fact they want to beat the Democrats so bad.

The Republicans know this war was a mistake. They just don't wanna admit it. They wanna look back and be able to say we won the war in iraq...

 

[Tdcci]

Yeah but if he won all the states and had that much support behind him, the party would have no choice.

Yeah but he can only win now by defying the popular vote.

 

[Zera]

Paul has to become the nominee. The GOP can't just say no when the majority of the delegates say they want him.

But as I said, Paul has to step up from what he's doing now, which is basically weak speeches. His speeches say a lot and are very informative, it's no secret. But he needs to present it better, and present all of his ideas better. What shouldn't be done is just the grassroots doing stuff. The campaign has relied on us too much, and we wouldn't be able to persuade the whole nation at that point.

It's true that Paul's platform beats everyone else's by a huge margin... It just seems stupid if America doesn't do it. But like I said, Paul needs a new direction in terms of showing it off.

Man... I was doing research for my paper on my hero the other day, and just really getting into Paul's policies... How the hell does America NOT realize this man can truly help bring this nation back to what it was?

 

[colecrowe]

Here... The important part of this is: 1. 80% of delegates come from Primary states, 2. more than 80% of those delegates will be pledged, 3. those states are almost all winner-take-all, 4. McCain gets to research and approve (choose basically) all those delegates, 5. Ron Paul only got 5% average in all those primaries, and did not win any of them outright.

The most important part is: 86%-95% of the voters and delegates voted for a pro-war, non-Paul candidate. Even if we won half of Romney's people and half of Huckabee's people (extremely, ridiculously, stupidly unlikely) we would still only have like 30% of the delegates. And 80% of Republicans pro-war (thus very anti-Paul), so they would never vote for Ron Paul--even if McCain died, and Romney and Huckabee--it doesn't matter--they would choose many other people before they would ever choose Ron Paul.

 

[Zera]

Here... The important part of this is: 1. 80% of delegates come from Primary states, 2. more than 80% of those delegates will be pledged, 3. those states are almost all winner-take-all, 4. McCain gets to research and approve (choose basically) all those delegates, 5. Ron Paul only got 5% average in all those primaries, and did not win any of them outright.

The most important part is: 86%-95% of the voters and delegates voted for a pro-war, non-Paul candidate. Even if we won half of Romney's people and half of Huckabee's people (extremely, ridiculously, stupidly unlikely) we would still only have like 30% of the delegates. And 80% of Republicans pro-war (thus very anti-Paul), so they would never vote for Ron Paul--even if McCain died, and Romney and Huckabee--it doesn't matter--they would choose many other people before they would ever choose Ron Paul.

YOUR OPINION IS NOT WANTED

FUCK OFF

 

[Mr. White]

YOUR OPINION IS NOT WANTED

FUCK OFF

LMAO. RonPaulForums: god help you if you answer a question in a way someone doesn't like, reality is left at the door and youtube videos and tax protestor websites are holy writ.

 

[nate895]

LMAO. RonPaulForums: god help you if you answer a question in a way someone doesn't like, reality is left at the door and youtube videos and tax protestor websites are holy writ.

You do understand he has posted that like, at least, 50 times.

 

[Zera]

He spams that same message in any topic that isn't about an independent run (the stupidest idea ever).

 

[Banana]

You do understand he has posted that like, at least, 50 times.

Not to mention him have never responded to my assertion twice that even several primary states actually still select delegates via caucus/conventions, so his assertion that 80% of delegates are handpicked by candidates is erroneous and should be lower.



EDIT: Finally got off my ass and did the math. There are 1359 delegates slot, or 57% of total available via caucus/convention storming. The other 43% are elected directly on ballot, by a slate submitted by the candidate, picked by state committee/board, or weird rules that I didn't understand. The 57% of course does not include the 3 RNC slots allocated to all states.

 

[GoPaul08]

Not to mention him have never responded to my assertion twice that even several primary states actually still select delegates via caucus/conventions, so his assertion that 80% of delegates are handpicked by candidates is erroneous and should be lower.



EDIT: Finally got off my ass and did the math. There are 1359 delegates slot, or 57% of total available via caucus/convention storming. The other 43% are elected directly on ballot, by a slate submitted by the candidate, picked by state committee/board, or weird rules that I didn't understand. The 57% of course does not include the 3 RNC slots allocated to all states.

I think the point is, no matter how much we want it, it is unreasonable to assume that Ron Paul delegates are going to get 100% of those 57% that are up for vote, and then that 100% of them will defy the rules. It is not going to happen.

And I know it is good to have hope and all, but it is also good to be realistic. Talk like this just gives the haters ammunition to call us crazy or delusional. Ron Paul will not get the nomination, and if he did, he would not win the general election. Enough Republicans would be upset over Ron Paul getting the nomination despite 5% of the votes in primaries that he would lose way too many Republican votes. and Democracts are not going to vote for him. The only thing that they agree with Ron Paul is the war. So what good would it do? He would lose in November, and there would be some residual ill-will from the perceived "stealing" of the nomination.

 

[nate895]

I think the point is, no matter how much we want it, it is unreasonable to assume that Ron Paul delegates are going to get 100% of those 57% that are up for vote, and then that 100% of them will defy the rules. It is not going to happen.

And I know it is good to have hope and all, but it is also good to be realistic. Talk like this just gives the haters ammunition to call us crazy or delusional. Ron Paul will not get the nomination, and if he did, he would not win the general election. Enough Republicans would be upset over Ron Paul getting the nomination despite 5% of the votes in primaries that he would lose way too many Republican votes. and Democracts are not going to vote for him. The only thing that they agree with Ron Paul is the war. So what good would it do? He would lose in November, and there would be some residual ill-will from the perceived "stealing" of the nomination.

We can still win 120 of those delegates on the ballot. I hope we can actually do it, we must fight all the way to the convention. I know we are well on our in NC, CO, MN, HW, ME, AK, NV, WA, and many others.

 

[Banana]

Firstly, you can't steal nomination by following the rules.

I didn't propose that we defy the binding. I've went on record that it still makes to fill in all available slots whereever possible in order to take control of the party. Nomination is the only thing delegates are bound; they're free WRT party's platform, election of officials, modifying party rules, all which would can be used as leverage to further Ron Paul's message.

As for assuming that we will get 100% of available slots- it may be unreasonable assumption but a lost opportunity misses the shot 100% of the time. Better to say we tried to shoot the ball and had a chance.

We'll know more when things develop but right now, it's up to grassroots to show up to their conventions wherever appropriate. It's ours to lose.


Lastly, I also noted that if people were serious about independent/3rd party run, they should form a committee and work independently of Ron Paul's PCC to make this happen by gaining ballot access, collecting petition (real paper petition, not online petition) of pledges to vote for Ron Paul. As long this is done without collusion, this only gives Ron Paul advantage at the convention (now has a bargaining chip) and if nothing comes out of the convention, everything is already set up for him. But right now, he's officially in race for Republican nomination, so those wanting indy run will have to do it without him.

 

[colecrowe]

I think the point is, no matter how much we want it, it is unreasonable to assume that Ron Paul delegates are going to get 100% of those 57% that are up for vote, and then that 100% of them will defy the rules. It is not going to happen.

And I know it is good to have hope and all, but it is also good to be realistic. Talk like this just gives the haters ammunition to call us crazy or delusional. Ron Paul will not get the nomination, and if he did, he would not win the general election. Enough Republicans would be upset over Ron Paul getting the nomination despite 5% of the votes in primaries that he would lose way too many Republican votes. and Democracts are not going to vote for him. The only thing that they agree with Ron Paul is the war. So what good would it do? He would lose in November, and there would be some residual ill-will from the perceived "stealing" of the nomination.

Shut the F up you traitor! He will get all of the unpledged delegates! Die scum! [/sarcasm]

2/3rds of this forum is in favor of an independent run and of putting great effort towards that! (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126930)

The only traitors are those who say that Ron Paul can get the nomination and try to discourage/ban/threaten against talk about ways to actually help Ron Paul become President (indy run).

It is so obviously false, that their only motivation can be that they want to make sure he/we wastes time in the wrong way, in the only way to sure defeat, because they do not believe in the message, do not want what is best for the country, and do not want to give or risk any more in time, effort, money and emotional investment.

They are weak, cowardly, scared, hopeless traitors. They have given up and don't care anymore. The only thing they talk about is stupid sad desperate crap like how to spread lies about McCain being a traitor in Vietnam and setting hundreds of jets on fire and killing hundreds of men. (I'll tell you what: You want know the only way possible to lose against McCain?: those conspiracies and lies. Stick to the issues and voting history and it will be a landslide.)

They are the ultimate form of troll. THEY threaten and insult 2/3rds of this forum constantly. We do not do that. We just say how much we want Ron Paul to be President, how it could really happen, and how much we would give in order for it to happen. We cite reasonable facts and use logic.

They must be hired by the GOP and probably the Dems too. (I know that's not true: but the point is, it might as well be--because they are trying to make sure the movement doesn't grow and that Ron Paul doesn't run for President and win it. They are working to keep the movement stale and small and keep the status quo.)

Ron Paul has always been an independent! He always talks about how bad the partys are! He once officially resigned from the Republican Party via a nasty letter. He is currently a card carrying lifetime member of the Libertarian Party. He is truly neither of those things thought. He vehemently disagrees with many of their stances. This country needs an independent. Perot could have won--now imagine what Ron Paul--with us--could do.

George Washington on Political Parties:

They [political parties] serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels, and modified by mutual interests.

"However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."

 

[Zera]

Someone please, for God's sake, ban Colecrowe. All he does is spam stupid indy run messages that nobody even cares about.

 

[colecrowe]

Someone please, for God's sake, ban Colecrowe. All he does is spam stupid indy run messages that nobody even cares about.

Yeah, only 2/3rds of the forum. That's nobody.

 

[Zera]

Yeah, only 2/3rds of the forum. That's nobody.

Where are you getting these numbers from!? Jesus! Stop spreading bullshit.