World War II

[revolutionisnow]

Yes.

And I have my problems with certain information, other information I do not. Hitler was a bad man. Plain and simple, and regardless of what numbers should be applied to him, they are applied with ease because of a grave he dug himself.

So how should they have responded to hyperinflation, the financial and moral bankrupting of Germany, Bloody Sunday, the communist threat, worldwide boycotts, and the reneging on the passage of the Dazing Corridor? Eisenhower was a bad man, and Stalin was much worse than Hitler even if you believe each and every Holocaust story.



The brutal occupation of France - it looks worse than Vietnam or Iraq doesn't it?

YouTube - Léo Marjane & Paris sous l'Occupation, 1942

 

[Slutter McGee]

There was no esxtirmination...and no gas chambers. Forensic science has even proven that there were no gassings at Auschwitz. It was a Stalinist fairy tale that the Zionists used to gain sympathy for their coming invasion and devastation of the poor Palestinians.

My grandfather fought in world war 2. Forgive me if I take his word over that of some stormfront moron. You are a fucking idiot. Dumb as a fucking brick.

It is ok to believe in conspiracy theories, even if I think you are wrong. Its ok to believe in a zionist plot. Even though I think you are wrong. Its another thing to out yourself as a Hitler loving, Jew hating, neo-nazi idiot. Seriously, go fuck yourself, and then when you have fucked yourself, go fuck yourself again. And then do it again.

I have been advised to ignore you. But fuck that. Seriously. you are a fucking dellusional racist, and I am sick of the fucking bullshit that spews copiously from your keyboard. I don't even care if I get banned or reprimanded for this. Because you deserve it. I seriously hope you don't fucking breed. But unlike the Hitler you seem to love so much, I wont sterilize you. I promise. But the last thing we need is more idiots like you demeaning the good name of liberty you ignorant fuck.

Goddamn moron,

Slutter McGee

 

[Son of Detroit]

I just don't understand how Hitler sympathizing and liberty can coincide with each other.

 

[sofia]

My grandfather fought in world war 2. Forgive me if I take his word over that of some stormfront moron. You are a fucking idiot. Dumb as a fucking brick.

It is ok to believe in conspiracy theories, even if I think you are wrong. Its ok to believe in a zionist plot. Even though I think you are wrong. Its another thing to out yourself as a Hitler loving, Jew hating, neo-nazi idiot. Seriously, go fuck yourself, and then when you have fucked yourself, go fuck yourself again. And then do it again.

I have been advised to ignore you. But fuck that. Seriously. you are a fucking dellusional racist, and I am sick of the fucking bullshit that spews copiously from your keyboard. I don't even care if I get banned or reprimanded for this. Because you deserve it. I seriously hope you don't fucking breed. But unlike the Hitler you seem to love so much, I wont sterilize you. I promise. But the last thing we need is more idiots like you demeaning the good name of liberty you ignorant fuck.

Goddamn moron,

Slutter McGee

lol.....


its ironic....but the first time i was exposed to WW2 truth, I reacted the same way you didd.

I started foaming at the mouth and calling the guy every filthy name in the book. Psychological barriers die hard.....which is why I am not offended by your insults.

 

[Chieppa1]

lol.....


its ironic....but the first time i was exposed to WW2 truth, I reacted the same way you didd.

I started foaming at the mouth and calling the guy every filthy name in the book. Psychological barriers die hard.....which is why I am not offended by your insults.

Do you carry a copy of the Protocols with you?

 

[revolutionisnow]

My grandfather fought in world war 2. Forgive me if I take his word over that of some stormfront moron. You are a fucking idiot. Dumb as a fucking brick.

It is ok to believe in conspiracy theories, even if I think you are wrong. Its ok to believe in a zionist plot. Even though I think you are wrong. Its another thing to out yourself as a Hitler loving, Jew hating, neo-nazi idiot. Seriously, go fuck yourself, and then when you have fucked yourself, go fuck yourself again. And then do it again.

I have been advised to ignore you. But fuck that. Seriously. you are a fucking dellusional racist, and I am sick of the fucking bullshit that spews copiously from your keyboard. I don't even care if I get banned or reprimanded for this. Because you deserve it. I seriously hope you don't fucking breed. But unlike the Hitler you seem to love so much, I wont sterilize you. I promise. But the last thing we need is more idiots like you demeaning the good name of liberty you ignorant fuck.

Goddamn moron,

Slutter McGee

How does him fighting in WW2 prove anything? Like I said before, each and every camp the Americans and Brits liberated are admitted to being LABOR camps, none of them are said to have been death camps or to have systematically executed people, gas showers, electrocution floors, or whatever other wild stories the communists claimed, yet somehow you offer this as "proof of the holocaust". I think it is a great example of proof of propaganda. Why would supporters of liberty support communists? Why would they support the enslavement of 5 million German POW's? Why would they support the creation of East Germany? Again, 60 million people died in WW2, why the obsession over Jews?

I just don't understand how Hitler sympathizing and liberty can coincide with each other.

I don't understand how supporting communists and being opposed to intellectual debate and discussion can coincide with liberty. People can easily accept that we went to Iraq twice over lies, and that Civil war was about slavery lie, but they cannot entertain any possibilities that lies were involved in WW2.

 

[sofia]

I just don't understand how Hitler sympathizing and liberty can coincide with each other.

Because Hitler hated communism, believed in peaceful commerce with all nations, national sovereignty, light taxes and sound money.

 

[Son of Detroit]

Because Hitler hated communism

Is Nazism much better than Communism? I'd argue it's much worse.

Believed in peaceful commerce with all nations

Right before he invaded and took over those same countries.

national sovereignty

How can one believe in national sovereignty and use his military to take over neighboring countries?

light taxes

Ooooh! Low taxes! Great! I sure wish I lived in Nazi Germany. I mean, screw personal liberties and a non-imposing government. Less money is taken from me than in other countries!

sound money.

That settles it. What a great man.

 

[Vessol]

Because Hitler hated communism, believed in peaceful commerce with all nations, national sovereignty, light taxes and sound money.

I'd like to know what history you are reading from.

Hitler was a totalitarian fascist.

But I guess anyone that hates Jews=Good. Or is it America?

Iran, a total theocratic nation with no rights to their people, I don't support any invasion or w/e of them, but I don't support their government one bit. But they must be jolly good to you.

I support your right to believe whatever you want. But you should try looking at history from more then one-side. You attack others for viewing history only from one side, then you do the same.

 

[Slutter McGee]

Because Hitler hated communism, believed in peaceful commerce with all nations, national sovereignty, light taxes and sound money.

And believed in noninterventionism. oh wait. And believed in equality under the law. oh wait. and believed in equality of race. oh wait. And believed in freedom of religion, oh wait. And believes in not murdering Jews. oh wait.

Hitler = Lover of Liberty.

I swear, I don't know why the GOP thinks we are a bunch of kooks. I just can't fucking figure it out.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

 

[revolutionisnow]

Define totalitarian fascist. What are some things that he did that made life there bad. How is Nazism worse than communism?

He took a nation that was morally and financially bankrupt and turned them around 180 degrees. Hitler was a Zionist, who believed in giving a homeland for the Jews. He believed that Jews and Gentiles were like oil and water, incompatible. He actually worked with zionists on finding a new homeland for them. The idea of wearing a yellow star actually came from a zionist. The labor camps were teaching them skills that they would need in their future home. We can debate the morality of forced evacuation, but Jews have evicted Arabs from Palestine, a land which they just arrived in, so they are as morally guilty as the Germans, if not much more so, because it was not even their land to begin with, and they have not even worked to provide them with another land to immigrate to, which the Germans did have exploratory teams working on. Americans also put Japanese in internment camps in WW2, which were one room shacks-much worse places than the German camps were.
Zionism = Jewish nationalism, Nazism = German nationalism

YouTube - Auschwitz theater2

Also, Jewish communists killed 30+ million people, mostly Christians, so why would we ally with them? And I still haven't received an answer about who is responsible for the other tens of millions of deaths communism caused after we helped them take control.

 

[Slutter McGee]

Intelligent People - Dude, Hitler was an evil asshole. He killed the Jews. Invaded countries. And was a genuine bad guy.

Other People - But Hitler was not as bad as Stalin. Stalin killed even more million people. And Hitler shook hands with a black guy. Its all a zionist plot. All of it, to defame the good name of Adolf Hitler.

Intelligent People - Dude I am not saying Stalin was better. Hell maybe he was worse, but that doesn't change the fact that Hitler was an evil bastard responsible for the deaths of millions under a facist state.

Other People - You are just uneducated.

Intelligent People - You are an idiot

Other People - See all you can do is insult when you do not have an argument. You are brainwashed.

Intelligent People - I should walk away. But I really really think your an idiot, and I just can't stop saying it.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

 

[revolutionisnow]

Intelligent People - Dude, Hitler was an evil asshole. He killed the Jews. Invaded countries. And was a genuine bad guy.

Other People - But Hitler was not as bad as Stalin. Stalin killed even more million people. And Hitler shook hands with a black guy. Its all a zionist plot. All of it, to defame the good name of Adolf Hitler.

Intelligent People - Dude I am not saying Stalin was better. Hell maybe he was worse, but that doesn't change the fact that Hitler was an evil bastard responsible for the deaths of millions under a facist state.

Other People - You are just uneducated.

Intelligent People - You are an idiot

Other People - See all you can do is insult when you do not have an argument. You are brainwashed.

Intelligent People - I should walk away. But I really really think your an idiot, and I just can't stop saying it.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

When you don't have an argument its best to stick to ad hom attacks.

 

[sofia]

Great Hoaxes of the last 110 years...

1. Sinking of USS Maine (blamed on Spain)

2. Lusitania sinking (caused by smuggled US munitions)

3. Pearl Harbor "surprise attack"

4. Holocaust (typhous epidemic in the internment camps)

5. JFK assassination

6. Tonkin Gulf non-attack

7. Global Warming

8. 9/11 attacks (CIA & MOSSAD)

9. Weapons of Mass Destruction

 

[bunklocoempire]

What if Japan didn't attack us, should we have minded our own business when 50 million people were getting killed? If so, wouldn't this have been a little cowardly?

Mind our own business? The U.S. has no clue of the concept.

Keep asking questions though!

Our forces were attacked in Hawaii right?

Just a quick Wiki about what we were doing "minding our own business in Hawaii":

Speaking of "cowardly"....

1887 Constitution
In 1887, Kalākaua was forced to sign the 1887 Constitution of the Kingdom of Hawaii, which stripped the king of much of his authority. There was a property qualification for voting, which disenfranchised many poorer Hawaiians and favored the wealthier white community. Resident whites were allowed to vote, but resident Asians were excluded. Because the 1887 Constitution was signed under threat of violence, it is known as the "Bayonet Constitution". King Kalākaua, reduced to a figurehead, reigned until his death in 1891. His sister, Liliʻuokalani, succeeded him on the throne.

Ship's landing force at the time of the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy, January 1893.In 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani announced plans for a new constitution. On January 14, 1893, a group of mostly Euro-American business leaders and residents formed a Committee of Safety to overthrow the Kingdom and seek annexation by the United States. United States Government Minister John L. Stevens, responding to a request from the Committee of Safety, summoned a company of uniformed U.S. Marines. As one historian noted, the presence of these troops effectively made it impossible for the monarchy to protect itself.[36]

Overthrow of 1893 — the Republic of Hawaii (1894–1898)
In January 1893, Queen Liliʻuokalani was overthrown and replaced by a Provisional Government composed of members of the Committee of Safety. Controversy filled the following years as the queen tried to re-establish her throne. The administration of President Grover Cleveland commissioned the Blount Report, which concluded that the removal of Liliʻuokalani was illegal. The

U.S. Government first demanded that Queen Liliʻuokalani be reinstated, but the Provisional Government refused. Congress followed with another investigation, and submitted the Morgan Report on February 26, 1894, which found all parties (including Minister Stevens) with the exception of the queen "not guilty" from any responsibility for the overthrow.[37] The accuracy and impartiality of both the Blount and Morgan reports has been questioned by partisans on both sides of the debate over the events of 1893.[36][38][39][40]

Bunkloco

 

[Hallowcaust]

First post here from a long time Libertarian going back to Ed Clark's presidential run and also a long time Historical Revisionist. I'm actually a bit heartened by the attempted scholarly, thoughtful, and perhaps even civil postings by many in this thread with just one exception, of course, (no big deal). A discussion like this would be impossible in a republocrat forum. Why is that? Because the republocrat/demoplicans have bought into all the WWII lies, especially the zero proof 'hollow'-caust story to the extent that it is considered hallowed ground, a new secular religion, if you will- a 'Hallowcaust'. That's a big reason why they are republocrats in the first place. They think that WWII was a good war and the big government spending for it was justified. That's why Hitler, the Nazis, and WWII appears in the news from time to time, more often than not because sooner or later some mainstream political entity attempts to justify the latest war effort, military expediture, or armed mission by the U.S. or it's allies around the world with one more emotional appeal to the Hallowcaust religion. It seems like all U.S. wars and foreign policy disasters since WWII are associated with an appeal to WWII mythology.

So, how can we have this discussion by Libertarians? It's because some Libertarians have treated this subject as they would any other big government program and researched it in sufficient depth to see through the government propaganda. But whether you are a believer or disbeliever in the holocaust and regardless of your take on WWII in general, we're practically all going to vote for Ron Paul if he runs again for president, right? Many nudists or atheists will vote for Ron Paul. Does Ron Paul have to distance himself from nudists and atheists too? Is Ron Paul afraid of being labeled as a child molester or baby killer if he associates his name with nudists or atheists? Is someone who believes that Ron Paul is associated with child molesters, baby killers, or Hitler lovers just because he heard that nudists, atheists, and holocaust deniers vote for Ron Paul even going to vote Libertarian in the first place? It doesn't sound very Libertarian to me.

 

[Imperial]

Hitler's economy was the strongest and most dynamic in the world. His policies lifted Germany up from ruins while FDR's America remained mired in Depression.

The economy in Germany was much freer than FDR's. A debt free currency ushered in explosive growth with no inflation. There's your "academic case."

You have been trained to salivate at the mere mention of Hitler's name...ever since you were a child. That's not "academic"...thats Pavlovian conditioning and you dont even realize it.

Question the facts and open your mind. We live in the matrix!

That isn't an academic case. If you think that you can make an academic case in two sentences then no wonder you believe this drivel. To give an academic case, FA Hayek shows the socialist tendencies of Nazism in The Road to Serfdom.

How is Nazism worse than communism?

That is a lesser of two evils argument. I would argue both are extremely immoral (well, at least state-sponsored communism).

He took a nation that was morally and financially bankrupt and turned them around 180 degrees. Hitler was a Zionist, who believed in giving a homeland for the Jews. He believed that Jews and Gentiles were like oil and water, incompatible. He actually worked with zionists on finding a new homeland for them. The idea of wearing a yellow star actually came from a zionist. The labor camps were teaching them skills that they would need in their future home. We can debate the morality of forced evacuation, but Jews have evicted Arabs from Palestine, a land which they just arrived in, so they are as morally guilty as the Germans, if not much more so, because it was not even their land to begin with, and they have not even worked to provide them with another land to immigrate to, which the Germans did have exploratory teams working on. Americans also put Japanese in internment camps in WW2, which were one room shacks-much worse places than the German camps were.
Zionism = Jewish nationalism, Nazism = German nationalism

Again your entire thinking process appears to only be able to conceive of two comparative entities at any one moment- a key skill to have, but one that can blind you to putting things in perspective. Your argument here was basically, "Zionists were okay with some of the stuff too!" as if by illustrating the similarity of two groupings that means the moral implications suddenly disappear

 

[revolutionisnow]

http://mises.org/books/TRTS/

So your argument is that they were both bad? Then why get involved at all? If you had the choice of aiding the crips, the bloods, or neither, why wouldn't you choose neither? Why risk American lives to go partner with evil? I just read the cartoon book, and was going to do a point by point rebuttal, but the entire thing is a wild idea about what might happen. Let's talk specifics about actual life in Germany, and how it was bad. Hitler took a country that was in a depression with joblessness and hyperinflation, and turned it into a superpower in a few years. What did the communists bring to the table? Poverty and enslavement? Every single one of the things pictured did happen in Communist Russia and East Germany, yet some here are claiming we were just in allying with them.

 

[Imperial]

That isn't really the actual Road to Serfdom written by Hayek; instead, that is an EXTREMELY condensed version. It is a 300 pageish book comparing USSR to Nazi Germany.

Speaking of Mises though, a decent article on the Nazi economy (although it has flaws though) http://mises.org/daily/1937

So your argument is that they were both bad? Then why get involved at all? If you had the choice of aiding the crips, the bloods, or neither, why wouldn't you choose neither? Why risk American lives to go partner with evil?

Because millions of innocent Jews were left hanging in the balance between two despicable regimes. We left the fodder for war to start with the punitive Treaty of Versailles and our intervention in World War I. We had already risked moral hazard.

Hitler took a country that was in a depression with joblessness and hyperinflation, and turned it into a superpower in a few years

Keynesian economics can bring short-term prosperity to a nation, yes.

Every single one of the things pictured did happen in Communist Russia and East Germany, yet some here are claiming we were just in allying with them.

I actually havent commented at all on if we should have allied with the Russians at all or not. The only threat I identified was a humanitarian intervention for the Jewish people during the Holocaust- nothing more (although I am not commenting on Japan here at all, since it appears irrelevant to this topic).

 

[Bman]

So how should they have responded to hyperinflation, the financial and moral bankrupting of Germany, Bloody Sunday, the communist threat, worldwide boycotts, and the reneging on the passage of the Dazing Corridor? Eisenhower was a bad man, and Stalin was much worse than Hitler even if you believe each and every Holocaust story.

I agree 100% with Stalin, not the same with Eisenhower. Regardless you can't defend an asshole by saying someone else was more of an asshole.

Yes I agree that there are two parts to every story and that when push comes to shove sooner or later all hell will break loose and the initiation of hell is rarely one sided. Still doesn't make Hitler any less of an asshole.