Women's vote not going to Dr. Paul

[Politeia]

I agree... and ever since I was a little girl, I've been told, "It's a man's world."

And who told you that? That's not what men actually experience. Though it's hard -- nearly impossible -- for a man to admit it, because it makes him look weak. And females don't pick weak males. So everyone pretends, without knowing why we pretend.

The whole thing is a charade, but it has its reasons. The problems come when you believe it without understanding the deeper levels. This understanding used to be transmitted in indigenous cultures in Women's Societies and Men's Societies, but we've lost all that; we're traveling blind.

I suggest reading Camille Paglia (note -- a woman) for some clarity on these issues: For starters, the introduction ("Sex and Violence, or Nature and Art") in Sexual Personae (the rest of the book is very dense, not of general interest); and "No Law in the Arena" in Vamps & Tramps. Probably in a nearby library, or cheap in a second-hand bookstore. Smartest woman I've come across, or at least most honest.

 

[VoluntaryMan]

think about the conversations that'd go on among men if there were 10 very different women running for president.
it wouldn't stop at "she looks presidential"

It has to do with expectations and experience. Women live in a different world than men. It's no shame for a woman to depend on others. Self-reliance is praised in women, but taken for granted in (or at least expected of) men. Women, often, go straight from being supported by their parents to being supported by their husbands. I'm not speaking in absolutes, here, but in generalities: this is how life generally treats the different sexes.

Of course, there are many exceptions, and I don't need to hear about them, because I'm already well acquainted with them. However, the conversation was about the different ways the sexes respond to Dr. Paul and his message. If opposition to abortion explained the difference there would be little difference between the female support ratios of Hack and Paul. The difference is that men tend to favor independence more strongly than women, although even men do not favor it as strongly as they should and once did. The difference is that Hack attempts to make people feel "safe and secure," while Paul wants us to be truly free and independent.

This really is a competition between a masculine and a feminine view of the world. Women still favor men who are strong and independent, but the majority of women continue to vote for a paternalistic state that emasculates society's men.

 

[txgirl]

And who told you that? That's not what men actually experience. Though it's hard -- nearly impossible -- for a man to admit it, because it makes him look weak. And females don't pick weak males. So everyone pretends, without knowing why we pretend.

The whole thing is a charade, but it has its reasons. The problems come when you believe it without understanding the deeper levels. This understanding used to be transmitted in indigenous cultures in Women's Societies and Men's Societies, but we've lost all that; we're traveling blind.

I suggest reading Camille Paglia (note -- a woman) for some clarity on these issues: For starters, the introduction ("Sex and Violence, or Nature and Art") in Sexual Personae (the rest of the book is very dense, not of general interest); and "No Law in the Arena" in Vamps & Tramps. Probably in a nearby library, or cheap in a second-hand bookstore. Smartest woman I've come across, or at least most honest.

Thanks for the literature suggestions ...

I know that we are conditioned from the time we are born to fit into a certain mold.... the mold that society thinks we should fall under. I love the book 'The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz... it talks alot about this conditionaing/brainwashing we go through from the time we're born.

Fortunately, I know that I do not have to fit into this mold... I have a voice... I am a contributor to this society, and what I have to say matters as much as anyone else!

I just think that alot of people still struggle due to what society believes we should be. Kinda sad.

But, in regards to the subject matter of this thread... I am consistently talking to other women about Dr. Paul, and it's disappointing to me that most of the women I speak with (who btw are not Rp supporters) say they can not grasp political verbage...therfore, they loose interest. This blows my mind, for I can not understand why someone wouldn't want to educate themselves on something they couldn't "grasp"... that's a BIG problem!

 

[Bloody Holly]

Thanks for the literature suggestions ...

I know that we are conditioned from the time we are born to fit into a certain mold.... the mold that society thinks we should fall under. I love the book 'The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz... it talks alot about this conditionaing/brainwashing we go through from the time we're born.

Fortunately, I know that I do not have to fit into this mold... I have a voice... I am a contributor to this society, and what I have to say matters as much as anyone else!

I just think that alot of people still struggle due to what society believes we should be. Kinda sad.

But, in regards to the subject matter of this thread... I am consistently talking to other women about Dr. Paul, and it's disappointing to me that most of the women I speak with (who btw are not Rp supporters) say they can not grasp political verbage...therfore, they loose interest. This blows my mind, for I can not understand why someone wouldn't want to educate themselves on something they couldn't "grasp"... that's a BIG problem!

Same problem. I have managed to get some males interested and one female might be in but she listens a little too much to Fox news. It's devastating.

I think females need to come together and come up with a plan. We are females so we understand what's going on.

Also I know of an Obama supporter who likes him because of his charisma and she didn't know what he actually stood for. She also liked him because he was a minority and can relate to that however it's Ron Paul who is being excluded.

Ron Paul is being discriminated against for his brain.

 

[txgirl]

Same problem. I have managed to get some males interested and one female might be in but she listens a little too much to Fox news. It's devastating.

I think females need to come together and come up with a plan. We are females so we understand what's going on.

Also I know of an Obama supporter who likes him because of his charisma and she didn't know what he actually stood for. She also liked him because he was a minority and can relate to that however it's Ron Paul who is being excluded.

Ron Paul is being discriminated against for his brain.

Yes, I've also heard that... which angers me to think that someone would support/vote for our countrys President based on his looks and/or charisma

I wish I had the time, or could find a group that would help, to write a Ron Paul "for dummies" pamphlet or something.

I'm not trying to suggest that these people are actually dummies, but put the information into a format to which they can process the information... help them make an informed decision.

 

[Nefertiti]

Also note that the "hunk" Romney got 2% less women then men voting for him.

Romney is no hunk-I mean he is good looking-but it is in a Ken doll plastic way. It's hard to find someone attractive when they look like a Ken doll. In fact, he looks so much like one that I find it quite disturbing.

Of the Republican men, I'd say Huckabee is the best looking, but I'm still voting for Ron Paul.

 

[Bloody Holly]

We can make this grassroots effort more friendly through the following methods.

-Meetups. Specifically outline in your meetup group that it is female friendly enviroment. Women want to support Ron Paul not feel like they are going to show up to meetups and get hit on by other members.

-T-shirts. Make some more girl t-shirts and tank tops. I went to the Ronpaul2008.com to look for a shirt but there were no girl tees. I don't like those long t-shirts. I like the girly tees.

-When telling other females about Ron Paul, the topic of abortion will be brought up. Take this time to tell the female about Ron Paul's personal experience as an OB/GYN and how many babies he's brought into this world and even how he didn't charge for the delivery to those on medicare.

Mention that he is strong on his stances and strongly opposed to corruption.

-Do not boast about male vs. female achievements. Even though you may strive on competing against other supporters and dividing based on gender, it is a turn off to most women because we hear enough of that macho crap in our lives. It turns into an exclusive behavior that most women view of as "Fine, you don't want me here and I don't belong so see ya."

-Having a Ron Paul girl is fine and dandy but where I draw the line is if there is a push for every attractive Ron Paul supporter you meet is pressured into being displayed as an object. She is not an object, she is a human being. Respect.

-In meetups, don't let male members get pushy and aggressive towards a female or treat her as though her ideas are not welcome. While most males don't pick up on this behavior because to them it's no big deal, females do. If you cannot pick up on that behavior then I also encourage females to speak up about it to the one in charge of the meetup.

If you are told by the female there is someone belittling her and trying to outcast her, do not dismiss that. Pay careful attention and speak to the male and the female. Remind them both that this isn't a gender war and the more people who vote for Ron Paul, the merrier. We are all in this together.

 

[Nefertiti]

Also I know of an Obama supporter who likes him because of his charisma and she didn't know what he actually stood for. She also liked him because he was a minority and can relate to that however it's Ron Paul who is being excluded.

Ron Paul is being discriminated against for his brain.

Yes, I was also initially taken in by Obama for similar reasons. Quite charming. But then I am married to a doctor so naturally the brain won out in the end!

 

[Nefertiti]

Not surprisingly, the most thoughtful and convincing posts on this thread are by women. This is the first time I have seen this topic come up where the responses were mostly from women rather than men spouting off what they THINK is important to women. If we want to come up with a plan to get more women, it is clear that the men should stand back and let the women come up with it.

 

[thehittgirl]

Not this brawd I don't need no stinkin' "security"

 

[txgirl]

Women are liberal, always were, it's a norm.

That's a very BOLD statement!

 

[amy31416]

I am a female and supporting Ron Paul.

From what I've seen, alot of women that don't want women to be viewed of as sexual objects might be put off by general attitudes. I'm sure that isn't what you want to hear but it's true. Those women will want to either support Ron Paul alone or just walk out all together.

Women have this problem all throughout their lives. I don't expect males to get this as they often shrug and tell women they are just overreacting instead of addressing the problem.

Also, women that watched the view and the subject of abortion was brought up, may have viewed that and snarled. However, Ron Paul is a OB/GYN. Use that. He actually has no problems with women, he just cares about life.

Sometimes when something feels too much like a boys club it will disenfranchise women just like if it felt too much like an all white club it would disenfranchise blacks.

The problem is, on this board in general, most of the time when I've seen the word woman involved it was to use her as an object for the campaign which can be thought of as belittling to the more intelligent female crowd.

This is a community on this board. We should make it feel like one. Also, women love to be included and treated as contributors and equals rather than told what to do, barked at and treated like objects.

Men do not like to hear that and react harshly as if it's tough criticism but if there is no compromise, it's going to push alot of females out. Women have more to contribute than just their bodies and looks.

When you keep pushing for females to use their looks to attract attention, that sends a message that male votes matter more because you are using the female to attract male voters.

Women do vote. Women do donate. Women do spread the word. Women do come up with ideas.

I asked Ron Paul on myspace in the summer of 2007 for a donation ticker. He wrote back and said, we'll work on that!

Well said. You have my respect and ears.

 

[txgirl]

We can make this grassroots effort more friendly through the following methods.

-Meetups. Specifically outline in your meetup group that it is female friendly enviroment. Women want to support Ron Paul not feel like they are going to show up to meetups and get hit on by other members.

-T-shirts. Make some more girl t-shirts and tank tops. I went to the Ronpaul2008.com to look for a shirt but there were no girl tees. I don't like those long t-shirts. I like the girly tees.

-When telling other females about Ron Paul, the topic of abortion will be brought up. Take this time to tell the female about Ron Paul's personal experience as an OB/GYN and how many babies he's brought into this world and even how he didn't charge for the delivery to those on medicare.

Mention that he is strong on his stances and strongly opposed to corruption.

-Do not boast about male vs. female achievements. Even though you may strive on competing against other supporters and dividing based on gender, it is a turn off to most women because we hear enough of that macho crap in our lives. It turns into an exclusive behavior that most women view of as "Fine, you don't want me here and I don't belong so see ya."

-Having a Ron Paul girl is fine and dandy but where I draw the line is if there is a push for every attractive Ron Paul supporter you meet is pressured into being displayed as an object. She is not an object, she is a human being. Respect.

-In meetups, don't let male members get pushy and aggressive towards a female or treat her as though her ideas are not welcome. While most males don't pick up on this behavior because to them it's no big deal, females do. If you cannot pick up on that behavior then I also encourage females to speak up about it to the one in charge of the meetup.

If you are told by the female there is someone belittling her and trying to outcast her, do not dismiss that. Pay careful attention and speak to the male and the female. Remind them both that this isn't a gender war and the more people who vote for Ron Paul, the merrier. We are all in this together.

Very well put! Excellent suggestions... Thank you so much for providing us with another creative approach!

Let's get started ladies! As Bloody Holly said in a previous post... we are women, so we know... WE need to make a combined effort to get more women on board.

Once again B. Holly, GREAT ideas!

 

[Bloody Holly]

That's a very BOLD statement!

Perhaps women "think" they are liberal because they haven't woken up to the fact that the "lib" in liberal isn't the same "lib" in libertarian.

We need to poll women and ask when they hear the word liberal, what crosses their mind. In a literal sense.

If it does in fact come out that the woman thinks "freedom"

then we must wake her up to the term "libertarian"

Looks can decieve.

Also we must ask if she wants war.

If the answer is no

Then ask well what liberal are you going for?

Most likely it will be Obama or Hillary

Then we must wake up the women to the fact that Obama's plans include more war which can be proven here

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/


BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN TO SECURE AMERICA AND RESTORE OUR STANDING
“When I am this party's nominee, my opponent will not be able to say that I voted for the war in Iraq; or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran; or that I supported Bush-Cheney policies of not talking to leaders that we don't like. And he will not be able to say that I wavered on something as fundamental as whether or not it is ok for America to torture — because it is never ok… I will end the war in Iraq… I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism; climate change and poverty; genocide and disease. And I will send once more a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, "You matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now.”

 

[amy31416]

I think females need to come together and come up with a plan. We are females so we understand what's going on.

Excellent suggestion. Let's do it.

 

[Politeia]

Also I know of an Obama supporter who likes him because of his charisma and she didn't know what he actually stood for.

That's an easy one: What Obama stands for is getting Obama elected. Whatever it takes. That's it. "Won't take anything off the table." Oh, and "The Audacity of Hope." There's always that.

She also liked him because he was a minority and can relate to that however it's Ron Paul who is being excluded.

Yeah, but RP is a white male, who by definition cannot be discriminated against. Whatever happens to him, he already deserved it.

Anyway, what I wrote here about Obama:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=824909&postcount=68

 

[Politeia]

Originally Posted by Azprint
Women are liberal, always were, it's a norm.

That's a very BOLD statement!

Like it or not, it's assumed in professional political circles that the great majority of women can be counted on to vote "liberal", i.e. Democrat. For good reason: They always have. If you want to change that fact, you're going to have to talk to a lot of sistahs. Good luck. Really.

 

[electronicmaji]

my meetup groups organizer is a women :/

 

[Adamsa]

Like it or not, it's assumed in professional political circles that the great majority of women can be counted on to vote "liberal", i.e. Democrat. For good reason: They always have. If you want to change that fact, you're going to have to talk to a lot of sistahs. Good luck. Really.

Tell that to the millions of females who vote GOP every election. They tend to be more religious though.

 

[Politeia]

Not surprisingly, the most thoughtful and convincing posts on this thread are by women.

Gee, I spent something like half an hour composing a lengthy commentary on numerous posts, which I thought was "thoughtful", some of it perhaps provocative (I like a good discussion), and this is all the response you're willing to offer?

Women are always complaining about how men don't listen, etc.

This is the first time I have seen this topic come up where the responses were mostly from women rather than men spouting off what they THINK is important to women.

So it's disallowed for men to have any THOUGHTS about what is important to women, based, say, on 60+ years of careful observation? Why does it have to be a war? If you think I'm wrong, show me.

If we want to come up with a plan to get more women, it is clear that the men should stand back and let the women come up with it.

Great, just do it! Why do you need the men to "stand back" first? Do it, please! I'd love to see more women pushing for Ron Paul. As I wrote, in my local meetup it is mostly women, and they're mostly great. But they're very few compared to the general population.

Where I live, though, for both historical (my background and counter-culture) and geographical (one of the most liberal towns in the country) reasons, most of the women I know just aren't interested in Ron Paul. Their reactions are exactly as described in this thread (by women): (a) abortion is the only issue, and anyone who isn't an enthusiastic proponent thereof will not get even a second's hearing (I don't bring it up, they do); (b) "He's a Republican" (end of discussion); (c) they just can't be bothered to think; etc.

I've been trying to interest everyone I know in libertarian ideas and Ron Paul for over 25 years; almost no one's been interested, and of those, the women have been less than zero -- including some long and (otherwise) close friends, who clearly wish I'd just shut up about it. They just don't get it. Kucinich is their man, no reason why, just no further discussion.

Okay, I'll "stand back" now, and get ready to cheer when a whole lot of new women join the rEVOLution. All together now...