Will you support the war monger/drug warrior duo?

[allyinoh]

She narrowly lost to Barr in the LNC and then refused to run as VP with him because of his conservative ideology. I'm hoping she'll run with Christine Smith or Kubby if she DOES decide to run.

http://votemary2008.com/

Wow she's easier on the eyes than Hillary.

She doesn't seem that bad... but I'd have to look into her more.

 

[Kludge]

there are some very bitter people, please channel your energy into somethingg positive!

SPREAD THE MESSAGE, BARR CAN HELP IN THAT REGARD

these constant polls are silly, please grow up... or leave.

Speaking of silly....

This is a Ron Paul forum. Members do not need to propagate Ron Paul or ANY "liberty" candidates. I believe most of us would welcome the differing views, in a libertarian manner.

 

[eloquensanity]

I'm still amazed more of you don't see what is happening.

Many libertarians left the party to try and "take back" the republican party with Paul as our leader. We lost. While we were distracted with our republican plans, the neocons came in and took over the libertarian party. They won.

Wake the fuck up people

Exactly.
The old saying applies Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me.

 

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

What "recent comments"? The date on the piece that has been widely quoted here is July 23, 2007 -- nearly a year ago. Since then Root has been persuaded that he was wrong about Iraq. Listen to his comments at the LP Presidential debate -- he clearly endorsed non-intervention and bringing the troops home.

stevedasbach,

Leaving aside Root's small steps toward libertarianism that you cite above and regarding the extent of Barr's recent conversion/repentance: Has Barr ever called for anything like dismantling all foreign U.S. military bases before?

By RP’s calculations the military/empire complex is a $1 trillion per year racket and forms the structural foundation that the entire Military Keynesian system depends on.

Barr's press release which as far as I can tell does not renew his recent calls for besiegement, starvation, or any other acts of war pressure on other countries seems like it might be a significant move toward true libertarianism for Barr.

He's still got a long way to go before the Libertarian Holy Spirit convicts him to the point where he is compelled to spend his campaign touring federal prisons and teaching Americans about the conservative/libertarian principle of being held responsible for ones actions and offering restitution to his victims, but I'm still praying.

 

[Alex Libman]

You might as well call Gandhi a warmonger for supporting Britain in World War 1!

They are in fact the most libertarian ticket to be all the ballot in November, far more libertarian than "jail pornographers, kill abortionists" Constitution Party! Don't like it, help recruit a principled candidate to run outside the LP (Mary Ruwart?), but by bashing Barr/Root you're only helping McCain and Obama!

 

[Pauliana]

Not a chance in hell.

Voted for the Iraq war, Patriot act, DHS. Fiercely supported the unconstitutional federal drug war. Introduced legislation to allow state sponsored assassinations. Favors all manners of foreign inferventionism. Has a vast congressional voting record that reads like a typical neocon Republican. Responsible for ordering the death of over one million Iraqis based on obviously insufficient cause.

The candidate belongs in prison not the white house.

Yes, and when someone sees the light and changes their positions, we should never forgive them and never invite them into the tent. Since Ron Paul has a spotless record, that must be the absolute, unwavering standard. No deviation allowed, no forgiveness for past mistakes.

Why bother "waking people up" especially any current politicians and officials? They are tainted already. We just have to wait for the new crops of perfect unsullied pure libertarian types to take over. That should take.... oh, about forever.

But because Ron Paul ran on a perfect record - and has one - that's what we now expect from EVERYONE. Gee, I hope all these perfect people don't all swarm us at once.

 

[Pauliana]

Exactly.
The old saying applies Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me.

ZOMG! That's exactly what's happened! People have sold out and joined the LP for political expediency! Makes perfect sense. They probably just want to get elected, and figure the LP is JUST the way to do that.

 

[brandon]

Yes, and when someone sees the light and changes their positions, we should never forgive them and never invite them into the tent.

There is a HUGE difference between "forgive them and invite them into the tent." and appointing them leader of the movement before they have even demostrated their change is sincere.

I hope you can see that.

 

[Kludge]

There is a HUGE difference between "forgive them and invite them into the tent." and appointing them leader of the movement before they have even demostrated their change is sincere.

I hope you can see that.

Yes, he should have run for senate as a Libertarian to prove himself.

Or maybe - the former congressman could have joined a state assembly for 4 years or so.

 

[qh4dotcom]

I don't like Barr's past....but they are both promising liberty....and they are in the right political party to deliver on their promises....so for liberty's sake I am glad they are in the race.

They will bring more liberty than Obama or McCain

 

[Rangeley]

I didnt know Fox News made polls here.

 

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Pauliana: Yes, and when someone sees the light and changes their positions, we should never forgive them and never invite them into the tent.

brandonyates: There is a HUGE difference between "forgive them and invite them into the tent." and appointing them leader of the movement before they have even demostrated their change is sincere.

You guys are talking about forgiveness, but you ignore the Libertarian principle of repentance and forgiveness that is much different (and better) than the Christian idea of forgiveness.

With Christian forgiveness, person A murders or robs person B, and for some reason some other guy (e.g. God) does the forgiving and person B (or his family in the case of a murdered victim) are not consulted on the matter and are never given a chance to be made whole.

But with Libertarian repentance and forgiveness, person A is required to repent directly to his victim (person B) and offer to compensate his victim for damages he caused. Then it is up to person B to do any forgiving--should there be any forgiving.

So, its not up to us voters and Ron Paul activists to forgive Bob Barr. That's a decision for all of Barr's victims in the American Gulag and places like Falluja, Iraq whom Bob "The Surge is Working" Barr had a direct hand in victimizing.

I think if Barr is truly repentant for his past crimes, this could be a great opportunity to promote libertarianism. The kind of personal responsibility and repentance that libertarianism requires from Bob Barr, is the same kind of repentance that libertarianism requires from our whole violent, statist society.

I think this point can be made far better by a "sinner" like Bob Barr than a "saint" like Ron Paul.

By the way, I've got blood on my hands. I voted for George Wallace and his genocidal Veep Curtis "Bomb-em-back-to-the-Stone-Age" LeMay in 1968 in my 5th grade class. If a VietNamese person accused me of indirectly participating in the napalming of his family and asked me to compensate him for his losses, I would be forced to agree with him.

 

[RevolutionSD]

I don't like Barr's past....but they are both promising liberty....and they are in the right political party to deliver on their promises....so for liberty's sake I am glad they are in the race.

They will bring more liberty than Obama or McCain

How's that "bringing liberty" thing worked out for the LP for the past 40 years? You really think Barr/Root are going to "win"? Then what? We still have an interventionist foreign policy and a drug war. That's not libertarianism.

 

[RevolutionSD]

Someone biases polls when he's desperately fearing the proper results .

Ruwart/Kubby / Barr/WAR '08

You're free to put up your own poll to counter this one.

 

[mrchubbs]

You're free to put up your own poll to counter this one.

There's already been 2 polls on this... except in those cases they weren't Fair and Balance FOX News style polls like this one.


Barr won both of those polls.

 

[RevolutionSD]

There's already been 2 polls on this... except in those cases they weren't Fair and Balance FOX News style polls like this one.


Barr won both of those polls.

Quit your whining and do something about it if you're not happy with this one!

 

[slacker921]

I'm still amazed more of you don't see what is happening.

Many libertarians left the party to try and "take back" the republican party with Paul as our leader. We lost. While we were distracted with our republican plans, the neocons came in and took over the libertarian party. They won.

Wake the fuck up people

I'm still amazed more of you don't see what is happening.

Many libertarians left the party to try and "take back" the republican party with Paul as our leader. We lost. Now the neocons are trying to convince us not to vote for the Libertarian candidate because they know the Libertarians can't win the election but CAN keep McCain from winning if they get enough poll votes to get into the debates.

Wake the fuck up people

 

[slacker921]

I didnt know Fox News made polls here.

+10 ..

 

[DrSpock]

I'm still amazed more of you don't see what is happening.

Many libertarians left the party to try and "take back" the republican party with Paul as our leader. We lost. Now the neocons are trying to convince us not to vote for the Libertarian candidate because they know the Libertarians can't win the election but CAN keep McCain from winning if they get enough poll votes to get into the debates.

Wake the fuck up people

Yes, anyone who doesn't trust Barr's "conversion" is a neocon.

 

[mrchubbs]

Quit your whining and do something about it if you're not happy with this one!

I already have:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139820
(from 5/26/2008)



Have a nice day.