Why YOU should get into reloading. Yes, YOU.

So I've started to get interested in reloading but preparing primers from matches and casting lead bullets sounds well...I'd rather just buy those parts. Molten hot lead does sound like anything I would like to be around. How much do those set you back typically to just buy new primer components and the pointy end parts? :D
 
I think I'm getting the reloading bug. Just in time for Christmas, too :D
 
Today, I am teaching a friend of mine both Shotshell and Rifle/Pistol reloading. Starting with the basics and then later we'll cover how to fine tune your ammunition.

There is a lot to learn and if you do decide to get into it, my best advice is to read...read...read. Make a goal to learn all aspects of reloading, learn as much as possible, so you can teach someone else.

There is a lot more to reloading than putting a primer, powder and a bullet in a case, Learn it right and learn it safe.
 
Doktor Jeep:

first off, thanks for the thread. i've been on the fence on getting into reloading. Between this thread and a close buddy's experience (who reloads his own handgun calibers for 7-10 cents per round) and another price increase at my local gun store (they do a good job, but $17 for 50, .40, 185gr FMJ's is getting ridiculous) i think its way past time i get serious about this ammo necessity.

now to the nitty gritty and a plea for some advice.

first here is what i want to be able to reload. I shoot .40 in my XD. I try to shoot twice a month ~250 rounds a session but it usually ends up being one ~300 session. i also have a .22lr that i use for plinking. .22lr ammo is not bad yet, so this caliber is not a factor. my brother-in-law got a 9mm for christmas (where's mine pops-in-law?) and we now shoot together. he would throw down some cash for a press that we could share. I am also building an AR-15, so i want to be able to reload .223. so to recap, i want to be able to load .40, 9mm, .223.

I thinking the dillon RL 550B would be my best bet. is this an accurate assessment?
also, from Cap above, i'm suppose to read, read, read; where the best place to start? is the dillon instuction manual suffiecient to start reloading my .40 and 9mm?

Next, bullets, brass, powder and primers.
bullets: not too scarce yet, so i'm alright. cheaperthandirt.com is scarce on brass; any other suggestions on sources in these times? (i do pick up my own). primers; what do i need to get for this?

thanks for all the info in this thread. i apologize if i'm asking questions that have already been answered; i read the thread a few weeks ago and didn't go through it again before this post.

thanks!
 
For the price, the Dillon 550 is the most versatile and reliable. I am sure other models can be mentioned, or the better versions of the Dillon. But the key words "for the price" - I mean it. You only need one of these presses and it will last.

Brass at this point is all about what you pick up. Here is a tip: there are still people who will drive their Suburban to the range and blow off ammo before going home to watch the game on their plasma TV. In other words, there are still oblivious people out there who still have money. These people leave good brass behind. Spend a day at a public range and if possible, if it's not guarded by range nazis, there could be a brass bucket on hand being filled by these rich oblivious sheep (who probably supported McCain for being pro gun har har har - damned fools) and that is a gold mine for reloadable brass.

Primers - get the right size at least and never confuse pistol primers for rifle primers. Get them by the sleeve - thats 5000 per sleeve and it will cost you but this is necessary because you might be able to get 2 sleeves one week and then before you know it no place has any more in stock for the next month, so get it by the sleeve and as many as you can afford because the supply is not reliable.

The same can be said for powder. Do not purchase by the pound, purchase by the keg (8 lbs) In November we purchased 24 pounds of gunpowder (it all arrived on the 5th, by the way and I am not making that up). Prior to that we spent a month searching every joint in the region and they were all out - we had to take the shipping hit and order it special and even that took a long time.

Bullets - cast your own. Wheel weights are everywhere. Find SCUBA weights on Craigslist too. Old boats - if you can find any in a boat yard to have access too - may have a lot of lead ballast. Lead must be hardened a bit. Forget expensive antimony that for high-class rifle loads just use solder - get it by the role. Put in a 2' line into one 4lb melting pot full and that's only if you start out with pure lead. If you can, it is possible to salvage bullets from the backstops (being green eh?) and reuse them. I must have done a quarter-ton of bullets like that. It's a pain in the ass there are risks but I never was in want for bullets.


Yes things are getting tight and supplies are short, but that's the way it is until we die or the world is free.
 
one question. do you need a dealers license to sell ammo? if not then why don't one of you fine people get into the business of selling recycled ammo or offer a service where people send you their brass and lead and in return get ammo for a small fee?
 
one question. do you need a dealers license to sell ammo? if not then why don't one of you fine people get into the business of selling recycled ammo or offer a service where people send you their brass and lead and in return get ammo for a small fee?

You need an FFL to sell ammo.

However you don't need an FLL to teach it. And someone who will not load their own is likely the sort who just wants to be an adult-sized child and play with guns, not use them in accordance of what the Second Amendment implies.

If someone offers to buy ammo from you, it's either just another useless baby boomer who is too lazy or a fed trying to set you up.


One thing that is considerable however is that since the government does not (and refuses to) consider silver as real money, I suppose TRADING ammo for silver trade units could not be illegal. However what is legal and illegal does not matter to this regime that does whatever it wants anyway. They make it look like they still care so they can play their gotcha game of lawfare on gun owners and patriots.

I just lend ammo or give it away.
 
You need an FFL to sell ammo.

However you don't need an FLL to teach it. And someone who will not load their own is likely the sort who just wants to be an adult-sized child and play with guns, not use them in accordance of what the Second Amendment implies.

If someone offers to buy ammo from you, it's either just another useless baby boomer who is too lazy or a fed trying to set you up.


One thing that is considerable however is that since the government does not (and refuses to) consider silver as real money, I suppose TRADING ammo for silver trade units could not be illegal. However what is legal and illegal does not matter to this regime that does whatever it wants anyway. They make it look like they still care so they can play their gotcha game of lawfare on gun owners and patriots.

I just lend ammo or give it away.

Perhaps go through all the paper work for the FFL and market it? Just trying to give you ideas for making some fiat dollars. Instead of not being worth gold maybe they can be worth bullets :p no but it is a good thing to learn how to reload. My friend does his for when he hunts but that's very few. He's teaching me how it's done. but it's not a big demand in NJ. Even if you own a single shot .22 you're pretty much on the watch list. The restrictions here are absurd. I'm moving to PA.
 
Well technically since the government does not consider silver to be real money...


But if you sell ammo without an FFL for fiat notes (what they call money) you will go straight to prison for years and years.


Therefore, if you traded ammo for silver coinage, those marked "trade unit" and not with actual dollar values stamped on them, would that be "selling ammo without a license" since it's the very government that says silver and gold are not real money to the point that they raided Liberty Dollar?

To convict a person for that, they would have to prove that silver coin is indeed real money then for a crime to have been committed, but that means we can use silver coin at the store.

And if everybody started using competing currency and dropped the play money, the Leviathan state would collapse in a year.

Yes you can do more damage with silver than you can do with lead. With silver you bring down the state, not lead.

The lead is for what the state will try to do to you if you use silver, or what you can do about that turn of events.

+:D
 
If you are in a burning car you would be motivated to exit.
I think most would write a very detailed letter of complaint on the nearest newspaper blog about car safety, with special regards to flame retardant fabric. All done from their laptop or cell phone/pda while in the car.

Great thread.
 
Rifle Reloading Notes:

By request, here are my findings on reloading the 5.56 cartridge.


In 2007 I reloaded a few thousand rounds of 5.56 in the same manner that I would reload straight-sided pistol calibers. The results were a disaster:

- the cases still had the lube on them, which might not be a big deal for most pistols but the typical poodle-shooter gun that uses 5.56 will choke on that as the stuff builds up in the chamber.
- necked cases "run out" when they are fired - they get longer actually. If they are not trimmed down, and are instead at the max length when fired, they might get stuck in the chamber.
- since none of them were trimmed, there was no consistency in the load as case dimensions differ within. Accuracy was crap.
- failure to extract in all but the most loose of the chambers was the norm.


So, how do you fix all that?

Well first it's necessary to recognize that you cannot reload a necked rifle cartridge as if it were a .38 special or a .40 S&W. You can reload those cases over and over until they crack and never have to trim them. If it's a good gun like a Springfield XD, there will not be any issue with case lube in the chamber. Heck an XD treats that like ammo sauce and asks for more.

But rifles, especially with an AR, no way.


Ok, some things had to change or further reloading would be simply a waste of more powder and primer for "site reloads". Shooting that stuff was like working a muzzle loader.


First, the cases must be annealed. Annealing a rifle cartridge is the act of heating up the case neck to a temperature short of glowing. But let me say what annealing is not, because a lot of people see this wrong:
- annealing is NOT heating the case to red hot.
- annealing is NOT knocking over the glowing case into the water.
Water? Yes. You must have the ass end (the head actually - the end with the primer) in water when you anneal them.
But you do not have to make them glow - that's too much - and you do not have to knock them over. You do need to keep that head stamp cool.
The goal of annealing is to soften up that case neck and mouth a little without softening up the entire case. In an AR-15, we are looking at roughly 60,000 PSI in that chamber and if that case is soft throughout, it will rupture, and those hot gases will ignite the cartridge at the top of the magazine (called an "out of battery") and that will ignite the one below it, and so on. If you are lucky, everything blows down out of the magazine well and you don't go to the hospital. I once saw a very expensive C-Mag get blown up.
Annealing is an act of softening up that neck and mouth for better resizing later on when it's time to resize. Easy enough. How do you know? The easy test is to take a vice grip and close it, and close while too wide on a case mouth, then turn the knob on the vice grip to be just touching the case mouth edges. Then, take the vice grip off and turn the knob just a little bit more. How little? A thousandth of an inch or two. Then close that grip on the case mouth and watch it. The mouth will deform slightly, and it should go back to round when you remove the vice grip.

Take some of the annealed cases, when done, and attempt to crush the head stamp too. It you can crush it, then all of the cases you did the same way as that one test case is crap.

So to anneal:

- use a tray with water.
- use a brazing torch or blow torch (set on low).
- put the cases with water around 2/3 to level of the case. It's just the neck and mouth to be annealed.
- heat the case necks but JUST BEFORE GLOWING. How do you know that? There is a tempurature sensing material out there that changes color but the Cheap Doktor Jeep way to do it is to set your torch temp, then heat a case and count how long it take for it to glow. The number of seconds it take minus 1 to 1.5 seconds is the amount of time the heat should be applied. If you watch very closely, the hue of the metal will change slightly right before it starts to glow. That's an even better reference if you can notice that. If you make an occasional case glow don't worry about it. As long as you are not making it white hot.
- no need to knock them over. Let them cool. The water is to keep the head stamp from getting softer.

Now, once you have annealed, you can clean them if you have not before. You can anneal dirty brass but that depends on the condition. Also, there could be lead deposits that might vaporize when you apply the heat so a clean case would be a good idea perhaps. It's your health.

To make annealing go faster, I like to be replacing annealed and to-be-annealed cases with my left hand while working the torch with my right. This is like walking and chewing gum at the same time so I have to warn you: You will burn yourself. Use a fireproof or wet glove on your brass handling hand because no matter how sober or careful you are... I have a huge burn right now actually.

Once annealed and clean, then it's time to decap, resize, and trim them.

Trimming the cases is best done with a special attachment to a reloading press for this task. Dillon has a nice one that overheats. These are not vented motors. WTF?

Here's a trick: wrap it in paper towel and keep it wet. That will keep it cool enough. Use a fan too. This works.

When I set up the trimmer in a tool head for my Dillon 550 (you should have one), I use two resizing dies. Why? Well the first one actually has a decapping pin, the second one is without a pin but still has the shaft (you will break these pins so keep them). This means that the annealed and lubricated

--- yes they must have case lube on them or you will be ripping the rims off with the shell plate ---

case gets resized twice before being trimmed. Resize before trim please because resizing will change the case length.


How long, Dok? I can hear them now. Here is the answer. Get ready, it sucks:

"Lake City Length".

WTF?


Stay tuned. It's late and if I don't sleep there will be hell to pay.
 
Any reloading book will tell you that the maximum case length can be 1.160".

I will warn you now, if you trim all of your cases to the maximum length, you have a good chance of having loads that will not reliably extract. The case will elongate in the chamber when you fire it, and it can get stuck in there.

Lake City Length is a case that's roughly 1.140 to 1.145 and they feed & extract reliably. I found that brand is the most reliable in even the most Diva of AR-15s (Safe queens that nobody would take to a gun fight and are only good for showing off and saying "yeah it's nice but it's very picky about ammo).

Now I recommend trimming almost all of the brass to Lake City Length even if they are not Lake City but there are options. I find that Lake City, S&B, WCC, and Winchester brass can be trimmed to LCL and will still take 27.5 grains of 748 after that. But PMC will not.

Why center this around 748?

Because I can fire factory Lake City from a 7.5" AR pistol at night and get a neat very bright (blinding you) 6' flame but with 748, it's a small, dull, red 2" flame. That is the powder I use. They want to ban flash suppressors again? Go ahead. We don't need them and the perfectly crowned barrel will be more accurate and outside the range of their tactics.

With 27.5 gr of 748, I can get on average 3100FPS from a 16" barrel and a good crisp round that works.

But those other cases, like PMC, will overflow. So you can choose how short to make them or if there is another powder that is stronger or finer and takes less space, perhaps that's the ticket. Remember, the longer the case, the less tolerable it is in those finicky AR chambers. That's why Lake City is so short.

Why do some cases take more powder than others? I would like to say that the inside dimensions differ and that could be the situation for some of them - more "meat" on the inside or a thicker head stamp. This could also be because of the grain of the powder. In the pistol world, for example, it takes only a little Bullseye for a .38 and it hardly fills up the case, but other brands have the same powder and take up more space with the same weight. You should know your powder but why drag that out? Just put them on the press and experiment.

I have other cases, like F-C and a host of milsurp. These have to be checked and tested. ALWAYS seperate by brand and test first.

However I have had cases at 1.155 work reliably in a match grade A2 but those were never-fired factory primed and cannot account for what they do as a reload.

A shorter case is less accurate but the AR-15 is not a long range weapon in the first place (yeah you can go out hundreds of yards but check the ballistics. I had a friend get shot in the leg at 1100 yards and he though he was poked with a stick and didn't notice the bullet lodged under his skin until someone asked why his boot was red.).

After trimming, you need to deburr the case mouth. You might have a trimmer that includes that as part of the cutting head. Good for you. The rest of us out here in short of money land will likely be using a hand tool for that. THIS would be your last chance to check the head stamp and seperate your brass by brand. If you have a mix mash of milsurp with strange markings all over them, you can either load them for plinking and CQB practice or sell them at a gun show. You would be amazed how much of the brass floating around and on the floor at the range is Lake City.


So let's have the rundown:

1. tumble cases shortly in course or medium grade if needed.
2. Anneal cases to just short of glowing with head stamps in water.
3. Tumble brass if needed again - recommended in medium or coarse.
4. Lube the cases.
5. Run cases through a special tool head for your Dillon (that you should have) having two resizers and a trimmer. Tightly wrap a paper towel around that sealed motor and keep it wet. That motor will get hot enough so that steam will come from it, but that keeps it cool.
6. Deburr your case mouths and seperate the brass if not having done so.
7. Primer pockets: sometimes some of the headstamp will run into the primer pocket creating a flashing of sorts that will interfere when it's time to put in a new primer. I use a drill with a countersink but to clean that up. What of that fancy tool that specially handles milsurp primer pockets? Never used one but maybe if Santa does not find out what an asshole I am there wil be one under the tree this year. Since you are already looking at the head stamp, inspect the primer pocket and hit it with that drill and countersink while you are there.
7. Give the cases a good long tumbling with fine medium and the case polish. This will result in nice factory look and polished cases ready to load. An no goo on them either.

Now all you have are cases that need only a primer, powder, bullet, and crimp. They need not be lubed for that with that gooey case lube that will only make your finicky Diva range queen AR cry like a little jammomatic baby.

Therefore, on your DILLON (that you should have), you need only a tool head having the powder measure, the bullet seater, and the crimp. Leave out the decapping and resizing because it should be on the trimming head.

And these reloads almost pass for factory new. Those ranges where they don't allow reloads ( in those lawyer-controlled areas), you can pass them off as factory. But the reloads will be as reliable as factory anyway. These are reloads you might want to take to a gunfight. I say might, because it's still up to you to make sure the new primer is seated properly and if you try to be Mr. Tactical with bad reloads don't blame me. Having good reliable loads to train with is key to good training and leave the malf drills to a friend playing ball & dummy with snap caps. Then you can save the good factory stuff (the green-tipped ammo) for a rainy day in Concord.
 
Great thread people :cool:

I'm looking to get into reloading my Self. I just bought a Hornady Classic single stage press and a Lee 50 BMG press. I ordered 200rds of 690gr 50cal (.510) bullets and 500 CCI # 35 primers. As it stands I'm paying around 3.70 shipped for a single 50 BMG round. I'm looking at about 1.75-2.50 reloading my own ammo. The gap in cost is due to the projectiles. Half are your basic ball ammo while the rest are CNC brass bullets. The brass bullets are more but I still come out cheaper than buying preloaded ammo.

pictures of the CNC machines brass projectiles.

DSC00349.jpg
 
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Great thread people :cool:

I'm looking to get into reloading my Self. I just bought a Hornady Classic single stage press and a Lee 50 BMG press. I ordered 200rds of 690gr 50cal (.510) bullets and 500 CCI # 35 primers. As it stands I'm paying around 3.70 shipped for a single 50 BMG round. I'm looking at about 1.75-2.50 reloading my own ammo. The gap in cost is due to the projectiles. Half are your basic ball ammo while the rest are CNC brass bullets. The brass bullets are more but I still come out cheaper than buying preloaded ammo.

pictures of the CNC machines brass projectiles.

DSC00349.jpg

pretty!
 
Those bullets are so pretty I want to cry looking at them.

Could you please post a tutorial on how to do that?

Right now bullets are so freaking hard to get we might as well start taking karate lessons.
 
those bullets are so pretty i want to cry looking at them.

Could you please post a tutorial on how to do that?

Right now bullets are so freaking hard to get we might as well start taking karate lessons.

hiiiiyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Well ain't this a bitch.

I was going to punch some more .223 brass for cleaning and then reload some pistol ammo for a point shooting class with Jim Gregg.

But it would appear that my Dillon 550 had other plans.


dillonbreak1.jpg



The piece that connects the lever to the ram broke clean through - there are little bits of that die-cast metal everywhere. The material failed.

dillonbreak2.jpg



I estimate that this ram was levered around 60,000 times before this happened.

This certain throws a monkey in the wrench. I guess I'll just have a beer. This is the only press I have in this area and will have to go to the backup press in the next town over.


You know you are hard-core reloading when you bust a Dillon.
 
Doktor Jeep,

I'm sold on the reloading idea. Thanks for the post and motivation.

Wanted to see if you could further steer me in the right direction. I've got a couple pistols and several rifles: .45 ACP Kimber, a .380 Kel Tec, .220 Swift Remington, .25-06 Browning, .22 Mag Henry, and a .264 Remington.

I'm guessing I need the Dillon press you recommended, but what else? It seems like there are dozens of add ons that I may or may not need.

Also, where do you buy powder, ammo, and primers? Thanks!
 
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