Why the Trans-Pacific partnership agreement is a pending disaster

[NACBA]

Republicans who now run Congress say they want to cooperate with President Obama, and point to the administration’s Trans-Pacific Partnership, or TPP, as the model. The only problem is the TPP would be a disaster.

If you haven’t heard much about the TPP, that’s part of the problem right there. It would be the largest trade deal in history — involving countries stretching from Chile to Japan, representing 792 million people and accounting for 40 percent of the world economy – yet it’s been devised in secret.

Lobbyists from America’s biggest corporations and Wall Street’s biggest banks have been involved but not the American public. That’s a recipe for fatter profits and bigger paychecks at the top, but not a good deal for most of us, or even for most of the rest of the world.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/T...c-partnership-agreement-is-a-pending-disaster

 

[CaptUSA]

Take this for what it's worth. The article is written by Robert Reich.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/09/10/robert-reichs-f-minus-in-economics-false-facts-false-theories/

 

[NACBA]

LOL--the author makes valid points.

 

[CaptUSA]

LOL--the author makes valid points.

The author is an idiot. He's a protectionist - plain and simple. He thinks trade deals cause us to lose high wage American jobs. It's an old argument. He lost.

There are huge geopolitical implications with TPP and there is so much misinformation, most of which is based on selectively leaked and selectively interpreted reports.

That being said, there are sovereignty arguments that can be made from the other side of the spectrum. Depending on how the deal is structured, these may hold more weight than anything Robert (the third) Reich will ever proffer.

 

[ILUVRP]

as with all trade agreements , the american worker gets screwed as we lose more jobs overseas .

i agree with fair trade , not free trade because we never win .

 

[CaptUSA]

as with all trade agreements , the american worker gets screwed as we lose more jobs overseas .

i agree with fair trade , not free trade because we never win .

That is certainly the protectionist argument, but I think history and free market economics has shown us differently.

Listen, I think we need to separate the arguments against TPP.
One is from the socialist economic viewpoint. It's protectionism. It's bullshit in my opinion.

There are other arguments against it though:
Intellectual Property rights? Do they exist? How much protection should they receive? (Heck, we can't even figure that one out in this country - even in these forums)
Sovereignty issues? Who decides when the trade deal has been violated? Can companies sue the US (and taxpayers) in an international court?
Geopolitical issues? What does this do to world commerce? Will it lead us away from or closer to war?

These are the arguments that need exploring. The economics of trade agreements are sound. I'd enjoy this debate a whole lot more if we could stick to the real issues instead of accepting that the socialists are making valid points. They're not.

 

[NACBA]

The author is an idiot. He's a protectionist - plain and simple. He thinks trade deals cause us to lose high wage American jobs. It's an old argument. He lost.

There are huge geopolitical implications with TPP and there is so much misinformation, most of which is based on selectively leaked and selectively interpreted reports.

That being said, there are sovereignty arguments that can be made from the other side of the spectrum. Depending on how the deal is structured, these may hold more weight than anything Robert (the third) Reich will ever proffer.

Herr Reich is AWLAYS right--just like Peter Schiff

 

[NACBA]

as with all trade agreements , the american worker gets screwed as we lose more jobs overseas .

i agree with fair trade , not free trade because we never win .

I Wish more people here are astute like you

 

[ILUVRP]

i have always thought of ron paul as a protectionist as he never wanted to get involved in other countries wars .

america is turning into a service worker country or when something breaks down just throw it away and buy another from china .

take away - airplane mfr - cat - deere and we build nothing but debt .

like i said fair trade not free trade ( there is no such thing ) . if i trade a $200,000 home in az to someone in fl with a $200,000 that's fair trade , whats going on now is i would trade my 200k home for one in fl that is worth $130k . keep doing that every time and you will be living in a dumpster .

 

[NACBA]

i have always thought of ron paul as a protectionist as he never wanted to get involved in other countries wars .

america is turning into a service worker country or when something breaks down just throw it away and buy another from china .

take away - airplane mfr - cat - deere and we build nothing but debt .

like i said fair trade not free trade ( there is no such thing ) . if i trade a $200,000 home in az to someone in fl with a $200,000 that's fair trade , whats going on now is i would trade my 200k home for one in fl that is worth $130k . keep doing that every time and you will be living in a dumpster .

Exactly..I get so sick of "Libertarians" and the like who embrace "Free" Trade blindly.

 

[CaptUSA]

Exactly..I get so sick of "Libertarians" and the like who embrace "Free" Trade blindly.

It's not "blindly". As I pointed out, there are problems with the structure of these trade deals. These are the things we should be arguing about. Ron Paul's issues with these free trade deals are not centered on the economics of them, but on the loss of sovereignty. He also objects to fast-tracking as it puts the power in the executive branch instead of Congress. There are also serious global implications that people aren't talking about. Instead, we get this economic misunderstanding.



For those of you who are worried about job losses in manufacturing... You had better get over that quickly. We are entering a period where manufacturing will occur on site instead of a factory. 3D printing is going to completely change the way you think about making things. You think it's a bad thing when we outsource a job to another country, just wait until the job is done by a machine! Real free market economists understand, though, that this will bring new efficiencies into the market which will benefit us all. (Of course, it's also why companies want IP protections. To prevent their goods from being printed without a duty.)

 

[Brett85]

That is certainly the protectionist argument, but I think history and free market economics has shown us differently.

Listen, I think we need to separate the arguments against TPP.
One is from the socialist economic viewpoint. It's protectionism. It's bullshit in my opinion.

There are other arguments against it though:
Intellectual Property rights? Do they exist? How much protection should they receive? (Heck, we can't even figure that one out in this country - even in these forums)
Sovereignty issues? Who decides when the trade deal has been violated? Can companies sue the US (and taxpayers) in an international court?
Geopolitical issues? What does this do to world commerce? Will it lead us away from or closer to war?

These are the arguments that need exploring. The economics of trade agreements are sound. I'd enjoy this debate a whole lot more if we could stick to the real issues instead of accepting that the socialists are making valid points. They're not.

^^^This.

 

[NACBA]

It's not "blindly".

A lot of people here blindly and slavishly follow all words from Ron Paul and Peter Schiff on "Free: Trade

 

[Natural Citizen]

I would agree with CaptUSA that sovereignty is the largest issue here. But I think that there is a lot to that and some of it actually kills the capt's crunch, so to speak. We're already seeing the TPP being run through the courts here in the states in a kind of a dry run in the only nation on the planet where patent laws and a leeching upon of our constitution allows them to manipulate political infrastructure to be able to do this abroad.

Here is a prime example of people having their sovereignty destroyed by industries who use the courts to make it so if their laws disrupt the industry's profits or anticipated profits should said laws/sovereignty remain intact ... TPP in America: Judge blocks County from implementing law that would harm corporate profit

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't know what media people here watch or read these days but if we pay attention to what is happening around the world where people are learning about this thing, they're going nuts. Absolutely bonkers. Riots in the streets. Why? Because they know more about it than the media here in the states is willing to mention. And the media has much to gain by keeeping a lid on it, I'd add.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...reign-Policy&p=5744205&viewfull=1#post5744205

And this is just one.

 

[Danke]

A lot of people here blindly and slavishly follow all words from Ron Paul and Peter Schiff on "Free: Trade

http://www.runwarrenrun.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=A