Why the pessimism?

if we are idiots and very wrong, and we lash out brutally with no pity
worse than hitler did to poland in 1939, we run the risk of triggering
the conflagration that brings down 5000 years of human civilization
due to someone's agenda driven espionage community spy report...

this is inside the very polite exchanges last night. someone wants to
whump up a crisis equal to the cuban missle crisis and nearly all the
other candidates are being lead around by the nose. when we see our
potus being as happy as woodrow wilson was over the palmer raids, as
he goes back on his word about the bill that creates concentration camps
on U.S soil with no writ of habeas corpus concerning the same, lets worry...
 
i think the two debates to a 99.9 percentile translate into ron paul being top three in iowa and new hampshire.

the effort it would take to guarantee what it would take to make him top two in both iowa and new hampshire

is something we can do. even if we do not win the White House we must write the GOP party platform totally.

the whole picture is sinking in, we know the road to economic recovery is rocky, and is like the 1930s at times.
 
I do kind of wish that he could have asked how any of them plan to pay for this big ol war with Iran. Thats really all he needs to say with the fence sitting GOP'ers. $ talks

yeah but those chickenhawks would quickly turn that around by saying "we must spare no expense to defend the grand American way". "Saving lives in America is priceless".

You know? They really have people bent over the bucket on this idea that America is in eminent danger of being destroyed from outside forces. If people would pull the * out of their * for 5 seconds and have a look around, they'd see the only eminent danger is of people like these chickenhawks splitting them in two again.

They keep playing that damn fear card, over and over and over, like a steady thump thump thump. A monotonous rhythm that just keeps people sedated and passed the * out.
 
I'm just feeling down because there are such better ways he could have explained his policies instead of trying to change the mind of the audience. I think his surge recently was mainly due to people just leaning toward him, and I think he just pushed them away by being so controversial. He should have just played the game and answered the question what he would do if Iran did have a nuclear weapon instead of trying to convince everyone that that situation is not realistic.

Your problem is that you are concerned more with winning and losing than you are with what is right. This is fear-based pragmatism at work and it is a foundation for nothing particularly good. It is, in fact, a foundation for perdition and disaster.

I say let Ron Paul be Ron Paul, come what may. It is precisely this attitude of willingness to violate your own fundamental principles for the sake of winning that damns one. Ends do not justify some means and those who are willing to walk away from principle for the sake of "the greater good" are precisely the sorts of people we do not need holding office.

Oprah Winfrey comes to mind as a great example of this. When she first got on air her show was sleaze as I have been told. Once she gained popularity and some clout she changed to whatever schlock she peddled that was "better" than before. She whored herself for the sake of getting what she wanted. It is an effective technique that has been used through the ages with great success, but success is not necessarily the arbiter of right. I would not trust a person such as her to clean my toilets. If they are willing to whore up based on one rationalization, who can say in what other ways they may be changeable? No thanks.
 
He did GREAT!! The entire debate! Usually I watch these thinking he did horrible, then the next day I re-watch it and think.. "Ok it's better than I thought."

I thought it was good last night, and this morning EVEN BETTER!

If you're getting down because of the media spin, remember this is the same media that BLACKED HIM OUT all year. They're not going to say anything positive - but America - Americans are SICK of the wars. We want our children home, our husbands, wives, fathers and mothers. Left and Right, Democrat and Republican, middle America knows going to endless, needless wars is a problem, and they're sick of it!

Obama promised peace, he won on peace, and he didn't deliver. This shows America that when push comes to shove, when the easiest thing in the world to do is go along with the rest of the folks on stage, Ron Paul STOOD UP and said NO. It shows America he will deliver.
 
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its dawning on us that doctor ron paul is the very last enlightenment era voice of reason we have.

In the narrow sense of candidates, yes. I will, however, pick a bone with the assertion as taken in the broader sense.

I am fond of Ron Paul as both candidate and as a man who is not only principled, but who subscribes to the right principles as well. But I see such danger in the postings of so many people who support him. That danger lies in the idolatry that expresses itself here. It is all fine and well to support Dr. Paul and to help him become our next president, but it is NOT fine to speak of him in worshipful tones. He is NOT the last voice of reason if we do not let him be. WE are also the voices of reason, liberty, and human rights. So are our children and all those coming after us if we pass the right attitudes and learning forward.

I have read way too much of this distorted hero-worship and in many cases it borders on the disturbing. I understand the enthusiasm and share fully in it, but I draw the line at elevating the man above myself. I will stand face to face with Ron Paul as his equal any day of the week and I am sure there are many others here that could do the same. The question, however, is whether they WOULD. Ron Paul must be put into perspective and I would bet money I do not have that he would tell you the same. He is smart, honest, clued-in, and our best hope as the next president of the United States. He does not, however, walk on water. Because of this, onus rests with us to be similarly righteous, honest, and clued-in and to do what we can to support and abet the ideals to which Dr. Paul would apply himself. Without US, he is nothing. No single man can do the job. Do NOT commit the same old mistake of leaving the work to the hands of others because it has been proven beyond all doubt that this is the perfect formula for catastrophe. People cannot be trusted to such offices. They must be watched and corrected. Often. Do not put Dr. Paul (or anyone else) into office and then wash your hands and go back to wringing and gnashing over the misery of having to decide between the teal and maroon paint schemes for the new BMW. If this is what is to be, then there is no reason at all not to put Obama back in for life because the result will indistinguishable. We have forgotten what proper governance is. WE are the government... that is, until we leave it all to someone else. Look what that has gotten us - just this side of concentration camps and indefinite detention without charges (ref. S.1867, for example).

Is this what you want? If not, then you'd better get used to the idea of dedicating a non-trivial portion of your lives to your roles governing the other governors. Anything less than this is a guarantee of outright slavery and oppression because those who want you under their thumbs will NEVER go away and NEVER stop trying their tricks. This is a fact of modern life as it currently exists. Get over yourselves and get ready to act. I can say nothing more.
 
I am fond of Ron Paul as both candidate and as a man who is not only principled, but who subscribes to the right principles as well. But I see such danger in the postings of so many people who support him. That danger lies in the idolatry that expresses itself here. It is all fine and well to support Dr. Paul and to help him become our next president, but it is NOT fine to speak of him in worshipful tones. He is NOT the last voice of reason if we do not let him be. WE are also the voices of reason, liberty, and human rights. So are our children and all those coming after us if we pass the right attitudes and learning forward.

The last time Dr. Paul was on the Jay Leno show (2008) what got an extra loud applause was when he said (paraphrasing somewhat), "I have my shortcomings but my message of freedom and respecting and following the constitution does not"

That's a good sign and we should continue to educate ourselves and be communicators and educators. I am hoping that there's going to be a wave of new educated Liberty/Constitution contenders in all the various 2012 elections.
 
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did we really need to bring out this old thread when we have this going on:

x9eAX
 
did we really need to bring out this old thread when we have this going on:

Yes. As is plain to see some are wringing over their perceptions of the results last night. Some of those are clearly mistaken. Therefore, we talk about it and clarify things. This is always necessary because people make lots of mistakes and by talking and supporting each other the things that are important are better clarified and preserved.
 
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